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Realignment approved by BOG - Jets move to Western Conference, "Division B"

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02-24-2013, 10:29 PM
  #76
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I won't lie I'm the opposite of people here...
Fans and borders (or media) don't make real rivalries and I'll be glad to see time zones work for the Jets'

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02-24-2013, 10:42 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by peter sullivan View Post
err.....so, puckschmuck, are you saying that only opinions that are in the majority are welcome here?

.....i cant express an opinion without being told deal with it?....really?



can anyone articulate what is better about a 4 conference set up with us being the only canadian team that is alone?.....i havent seen it except that people like going to bed by 9:30 apparently.

you think its tough to attract players to winnipeg now?....give it 5 years of being in the media hinterland.
Most of your posts are negative towards anything the team does. Really. Go back and read through your posts. That is what I'm getting at. Sorry to be rude but it gets a little old after a while. You were soooooo happy to get a team back on the other forum and now you just seem to complain about how things are run and now the potential re-alignment. I guess once the re-alignment happens you will eventually start cheering for another Canadian team because, well, they are in a more Canadian division?

I'm actually a little nervous that I might become more like you (negative) for next season after my "grace period" has expired for the team. However, regardless, I will cheer for them and always try to find the positive in them. I always have to remind myself that I now have a team to cheer for, through the highs AND the lows.

I'm just trying to be more positive in life, and am only encouraging others to do the same. It does wonders for your soul and your overall perspective in life

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02-24-2013, 10:57 PM
  #78
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hey man, i love the jets more than anyone....and i am a positive guy....but i'm not mindless...good debate is healthy.....blind faith is uninteresting.

i want nothing but the best for my team....which is why i dont want to see us fall off the face of the earth with this alignment...i dont see how wanting the best for your team is bad.....i could not care less about time zones...i dont understand why anyone would....who cares about starting at 8:00 or 7:00?....the travel is no more onerous to calgary than nashville.

i want what will make following my team most interesting and most fun in the long run....i think being the smallest market in the league, on the fringe of outsider's consciousness will only be hurt by being the only canadian team alone without any others.....we already had every single one of our saturday night games moved to 2:00 starts because we are the low man on the totem pole for HNIC.....imagine when our games mean absolutely nothing to any other team in canada....we live in canada.....all our media comes from here.....the NHL gets 90% of its media coverage from canada.

we have to attract players....less media coverage for what is already seen as a less than desirable place to play is not a good thing.

i cant see us having any real rivalries with those teams.....even minnesota.....they dont really care about us.....we have no history with them.....they will look to st. louis and chicago.....cities they share a history with....and how can you have rivalries with those cities where the game is a fringe sport?

i think this hurts my team.....i see no positives from it.....and other than time zones i have not been presented any reason to believe otherwise.

as far as the negative goes.....i think that is blown out of proportion on a forum where discussion that isnt roses and rainbows is frowned upon.....i would trade kane because i think he could be worth more than his value....thats not negative.....i think we may have signed a noose contract with a goalie with very bad numbers....thats just the truth....i dont like reaching in the draft.....and i would like Chevy to make moves to improve the team...not sure why every fan doesnt want that.

i love the jets....it is not negative to want the best for them....i love burmi, bogo and buff.....i love the team unconditionally.....i would love kane to lead us to the cup, pavs to win the vezina and sheifele learn to skate!


Last edited by peter sullivan: 02-24-2013 at 11:14 PM.
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02-24-2013, 11:03 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
I won't lie I'm the opposite of people here...
Fans and borders (or media) don't make real rivalries and I'll be glad to see time zones work for the Jets'
fans and media coverage do not make rivalries but time zones do?.....our rivalry will be stronger with dallas than say edmonton, because we are in the same time zone?

in my opinion, fans and media coverage are the only thing that makes real rivalries.....

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02-24-2013, 11:08 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by peter sullivan View Post
fans and media coverage do not make rivalries but time zones do?.....our rivalry will be stronger with dallas than say edmonton, because we are in the same time zone?

in my opinion, fans and media coverage are the only thing that makes real rivalries.....
You combined two separate comments: 1) that rivalries do not come from geographical locations or media and 2) what I like about the realignment in how it helps the team.

The one and only thing that makes real rivalries is between the players, which comes out of experiences and history...

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02-24-2013, 11:10 PM
  #81
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I don't buy us being hurt by more exposure in the US. If anything, it will make us more known within the country, and that is key to having this team become more obvious to markets south of the border. I also believe that it will be instrumental for us to market ourselves to players to want to play for us. Trust me when I say that most Albertans could care less if they have Winnipeg for a rival. They care about their own teams, Vancouver and LA. That is where their interests lie.

I'm a huge fan of this new re-alignment. I'm pumped for Minny, Chi-town and St. Louis. We will develope some great rivalries there. It's going to be great!

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02-24-2013, 11:17 PM
  #82
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ok, does anyone have the full breakdown of the playoff format?

so the east-west is gone and doesnt matter...

what ive gathered is the first two rounds of the playoffs would be inter-conference...1v4, 2v3...second round would be the 2 winners... that all makes sense (i dont like it though, but it makes sense)

but when you have the 4 conference winners left at the end, how do they decide who plays who? re-seed the teams based on the season and play from there? or do they have a tournament style format where everyone plays each other home and away and the two with the best record go to the championship series?

just seems dicey to me compared to the current setup... im all for giving change a chance. but im not so sure i see a whole lot of merit in this system outside of the obvious travel/timezone advantages.. come playoff time it looks like a mess

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02-24-2013, 11:22 PM
  #83
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Why are peope saying the 2:00 game on saturdays is a negative for the Jets?
The fact of the matter is that Toronto and Montreal will always (rightfully so) get the prime time slot.
So we're left with two options:
A) Play a 2:00 game with national exposure in a country that can't seem to ever see enough hockey.
B) Play a 7:00 game with regional exposure which will cater to a market that is almost on the whole equally likely to watch the game at 2:00.

Frankly I think the 2:00 game is mutually beneficial for HNIC and the Jets. CBC gets to show hockey all day, the Jets get great national exposure.
The only people losing out IMO are season ticket holders. I prefer night games, the atmosphere is more drunken and less family oriented which enhances the experience for me. But thats a minor concern.

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02-24-2013, 11:23 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
You combined two separate comments: 1) that rivalries do not come from geographical locations or media and 2) what I like about the realignment in how it helps the team.

The one and only thing that makes real rivalries is between the players, which comes out of experiences and history...
i disagree completely.....how can the rivalry be with players who change every couple of years?.....there can be short lived rivalries based on a playoff series or something like that but almost all true rivalries are based on geography, shared commonalities with the fans outside of he game itself .

i also think it is impossible to have a real rivalry with fans who are largely indifferent to the game.

look at all the great long lasting rivalries in sports....im not sure how you can argue that geography doesnt play a major factor....there are very few examples where unlike cities have real rivalries....and almost no examples where the rivalries are formed by the players.

red sox/yankees, green bay/chicago, habs/nords, flyers/penguins.....it goes on and on.....geography is everything.

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02-24-2013, 11:25 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by peter sullivan View Post
i disagree completely.....how can the rivalry be with players who change every couple of years?.....there can be short lived rivalries based on a playoff series or something like that but almost all true rivalries are based on geography, shared commonalities with the fans outside of he game itself .

i also think it is impossible to have a real rivalry with fans who are largely indifferent to the game.

look at all the great long lasting rivalries in sports....im not sure how you can argue that geography doesnt play a major factor....there are very few examples where unlike cities have real rivalries....and almost no examples where the rivalries are formed by the players.

red sox/yankees, green bay/chicago, habs/nords, flyers/penguins.....it goes on and on.....geography is everything.
https://maps.google.ca/maps?client=s...ie=UTF-8&hl=en

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02-24-2013, 11:26 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
Trust me when I say that most Albertans could care less if they have Winnipeg for a rival. They care about their own teams, Vancouver and LA. That is where their interests lie.
t!
because thats who they play!.....imagine how strong the rivalry would be if we were in their division and our games meant something to them......we have a similar passion to feed off each other.....we have the same media sources....we get piles of their games in our market.

last year's oiler game was filled with oiler fans who had made the trip......are people from dallas going to do that?

our strongest rivalries by far with jets 1.0 was edmonton and calgary.....

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02-24-2013, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by garret9 View Post
another excellent example...boston/montreal.....300mi apart, similar cities, similar history, similar fan passion....thank you.

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02-24-2013, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by peter sullivan View Post
i disagree completely.....how can the rivalry be with players who change every couple of years?.....there can be short lived rivalries based on a playoff series or something like that but almost all true rivalries are based on geography, shared commonalities with the fans outside of he game itself .

i also think it is impossible to have a real rivalry with fans who are largely indifferent to the game.

look at all the great long lasting rivalries in sports....im not sure how you can argue that geography doesnt play a major factor....there are very few examples where unlike cities have real rivalries....and almost no examples where the rivalries are formed by the players.

red sox/yankees, green bay/chicago, habs/nords, flyers/penguins.....it goes on and on.....geography is everything.
Magic vs Bird. Detroit vs Colorado- when both teams were great and had similar rosters for an extended period of time they were great rivals. Players changed, since then nothing.

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02-24-2013, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by wpgsilver View Post
Why are peope saying the 2:00 game on saturdays is a negative for the Jets?
The fact of the matter is that Toronto and Montreal will always (rightfully so) get the prime time slot.
So we're left with two options:
A) Play a 2:00 game with national exposure in a country that can't seem to ever see enough hockey.
B) Play a 7:00 game with regional exposure which will cater to a market that is almost on the whole equally likely to watch the game at 2:00.

Frankly I think the 2:00 game is mutually beneficial for HNIC and the Jets. CBC gets to show hockey all day, the Jets get great national exposure.
The only people losing out IMO are season ticket holders. I prefer night games, the atmosphere is more drunken and less family oriented which enhances the experience for me. But thats a minor concern.
Saturday 2:00 games suck for the game experience.....it has to really hurt TNSE's profit as well......nevermind the impact it has on business in the downtown.....an evening game is a handful of beers in the arena, dinner before, drinks somewhere after.....2:00 is go to the game, one beer and home for supper.

i hope it isnt a trend for next year.

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02-24-2013, 11:33 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by peter sullivan View Post
another excellent example...boston/montreal.....300mi apart, similar cities, similar history, similar fan passion....thank you.
If you REALLY think that
*it it is not pretty much 100% team history from being original 6 dynasties that have met in the playoffs hundreds of times
*that geography/distance has anything to do with two cities in two different countries that never cross paths for ANY other reason
than you're a hopeless case... I'm done here.

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02-24-2013, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by peter sullivan View Post
because thats who they play!.....imagine how strong the rivalry would be if we were in their division and our games meant something to them......we have a similar passion to feed off each other.....we have the same media sources....we get piles of their games in our market.

last year's oiler game was filled with oiler fans who had made the trip......are people from dallas going to do that?

our strongest rivalries by far with jets 1.0 was edmonton and calgary.....
The Edmonton and Calgary rivalries are the past; they are all but dead to me. I live in Alberta. I interact with Oilers and Flames fans. They no longer care about past rivalries. They have moved on, and so have I and many others. I think you are making too much about the new realignment and are not giving it enough credit. I'll be willing to bet you will be pleasantly surprise. Our new rivalries will form and they will be great. You have already deemed it a failure simply because they are not Canadian teams. You need to give this a chance, otherwise you will be a very bitter fan who can't get into the team simply because they aren't playing the teams you want them to play most often. Is that how you really want to go on "cheering" for this team? It will eat you up on the inside if you choose to let it. Life is too short for that. Like I said, enjoy the ride; I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

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02-24-2013, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by wpgsilver View Post
Magic vs Bird. Detroit vs Colorado- when both teams were great and had similar rosters for an extended period of time they were great rivals. Players changed, since then nothing.
lakers/celtics is one for sure that transcends geography, but that is a very special case of two teams dominating the league for a decade.....i dont think we can hope for that for the jets.

the detroit/colorada thing is my point...a short lived rivalry...like chicago/vancouver today...absed on a couple of playoffs, but as soon as one fades a bit, the rivalry will be gone.....there is no shared experience holding it together.

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02-24-2013, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by peter sullivan View Post
Saturday 2:00 games suck for the game experience.....it has to really hurt TNSE's profit as well......nevermind the impact it has on business in the downtown.....an evening game is a handful of beers in the arena, dinner before, drinks somewhere after.....2:00 is go to the game, one beer and home for supper.

i hope it isnt a trend for next year.
I touched on that. But initially you were talking about how the 2:00 is a negative for the Jets in terms of exposure. How we were the low man on the totem pole. Yet I don't recall Ottawa being given national exposure on a saturday consistently.
I'm not saying it's ideal, but you just shifted your argument. If the Jets benefit from exposure (as you said) this is a positive.

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Originally Posted by peter sullivan View Post
the detroit/colorada thing is my point...a short lived rivalry...like chicago/vancouver today...absed on a couple of playoffs, but as soon as one fades a bit, the rivalry will be gone.....there is no shared experience holding it together.
You're right on this point. It depends what you look for in a rivalry. I think a rivalry in the stands is boring. Me and the guy beside me might be exchange barbs etc, but if the players don't care (since most won't be part of the rivalry) its not exciting.
I'd rather have a rivalry between players where they're as invested in it as I am. It might only last a few years, but EVERYONE will be engaged. As far as I know there is no rivalry between these Jets and Edmonton. Evander Kane doesn't care if it's edmonton or LA. All of that is a fan creation that has no bearing on the play.

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02-24-2013, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
The Edmonton and Calgary rivalries are the past; they are all but dead to me. .
of course they mean nothing now.....we dont play them...how could we have a rivalry with a team we dont play?......the jets have no rivals right now.....my point is that the conditions exist to create the strongest rivalries with the cities you have the most in common with...that is overwhelmingly the case for rivalries across all sports in north america.

if we are in a division where we play the same teams and competing for a playoff spot with them, they will care about us.....and because calgary and edmonton cares about hockey so much, and we have so much exposure with each other and so much shared history, it would be increased......the very fact that you are a jets fan living in alberta proves it....i know 20 people living in alberta...every winnipegger knows people living in alberta......who knows someone in dallas?...remember the jets game in the saddledome last year?...it was a home game for the jets....how can you say those are not the conditions to form a lasting rivalry?.....they would learn to hate us becasue we share so much else.

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02-24-2013, 11:41 PM
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I believe that geography only comes into play wrt rivalries when there is a rivalry already in place between the markets. e.g. Calgary and Edmonton. All other rivalries are built up by playing against each other, playoffs, fans and to a much lesser extent, media.

I also think that being in an all US Conference is not going to 'bury' us media wise. On the contrary. I think it is going to boost us. More people in the States will know the Jets and Winnipeg because we will play them and be rivals. People in Canada will know what is up with the Jets by default. Markets like Toronto don't think anything exists outside of them anyways.

Jets 1.0 put Winnipeg on the world map in a huge way and 2.0 will enhance that.

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02-24-2013, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by wpgsilver View Post
I touched on that. But initially you were talking about how the 2:00 is a negative for the Jets in terms of exposure. How we were the low man on the totem pole. Yet I don't recall Ottawa being given national exposure on a saturday consistently.
I'm not saying it's ideal, but you just shifted your argument. If the Jets benefit from exposure (as you said) this is a positive.
.
i agree...i did....my apologies.

the 2:00 for me is an example of how we are the low man on the totem pole of the Canadian teams already....i diverted...my apologies....i agree that the options are no better as far as HNIC home games go.

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02-24-2013, 11:47 PM
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I also think that being in an all US Conference is not going to 'bury' us media wise. On the contrary. I think it is going to boost us. More people in the States will know the Jets and Winnipeg because we will play them and be rivals. People in Canada will know what is up with the Jets by default. Markets like Toronto don't think anything exists outside of them anyways.
Exactly. This is what I'm getting at. I don't understand how some people can just write this alignment off without giving it a change. We will get more exposue in the US market this way, and this is by far more important to me than playing Oilers and Flames over and over and over again. This is going to be very beneficial for us and I'm very excited to see it play out.

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02-24-2013, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Brogosian View Post
I believe that geography only comes into play wrt rivalries when there is a rivalry already in place between the markets. e.g. Calgary and Edmonton. All other rivalries are built up by playing against each other, playoffs, fans and to a much lesser extent, media.

I also think that being in an all US Conference is not going to 'bury' us media wise. On the contrary. I think it is going to boost us. More people in the States will know the Jets and Winnipeg because we will play them and be rivals. People in Canada will know what is up with the Jets by default. Markets like Toronto don't think anything exists outside of them anyways.

Jets 1.0 put Winnipeg on the world map in a huge way and 2.0 will enhance that.
the way i see it is that in those american cities even their own teams dont get any media coverage...there is essentially no national media coverage.....all we can hope for is canadian coverage.....now we wont get that....we wont get media coverage in the states because nobody does...and now we wont get it in canada like the other canadian teams will.

to hope that our exposure in the US will increase is wishful thinking in my opinion....its a fringe sport in all but chicago and minny.....and i have a hard time picturing little winnipeg have any real rivalry with the people of chicago.

i am also thinking about how much enjoyment i will get out of games personally.....i know a ton of people in other Canadian cities....competing against them would be huge fun....i love being in the arena when its filled with fans from other cities....i love competing against fans from cities who love the game as much as we do....that passion is the foundation of a real rivalry.....that opportunity is lost in my opinion.

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02-24-2013, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by peter sullivan View Post
the way i see it is that in those american cities even their own teams dont get any media coverage...there is essentially no national media coverage.....all we can hope for is canadian coverage.....now we wont get that....we wont get media coverage in the states because nobody does...and now we wont get it in canada like the other canadian teams will.

to hope that our exposure in the US will increase is wishful thinking in my opinion....its a fringe sport in all but chicago and minny.....and i have a hard time picturing little winnipeg have any real rivalry with the people of chicago.
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of course they mean nothing now.....we dont play them...how could we have a rivalry with a team we dont play?......the jets have no rivals right now.....my point is that the conditions exist to create the strongest rivalries with the cities you have the most in common with...that is overwhelmingly the case for rivalries across all sports in north america.

if we are in a division where we play the same teams and competing for a playoff spot with them, they will care about us.....and because calgary and edmonton cares about hockey so much, and we have so much exposure with each other and so much shared history, it would be increased......the very fact that you are a jets fan living in alberta proves it....i know 20 people living in alberta...every winnipegger knows people living in alberta......who knows someone in dallas?...remember the jets game in the saddledome last year?...it was a home game for the jets....how can you say those are not the conditions to form a lasting rivalry?.....they would learn to hate us becasue we share so much else.
I thinks it's pretty clear that you will never accept what is about to happen. You are obsesed with the past and can't seem to let it go. You will become a very bitter Jets fan and have great difficulty cheering for this team simply because they aren't playing the teams you want them to play. You have written this alignment off without giving it a chance. I'm sorry to see that you don't even have an open mind to the potential. Life as a Jets fan will become very difficult for you as a result. I wish you all the best in that regard.

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02-24-2013, 11:57 PM
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I thinks it's pretty clear that you will never accept what is about to happen. You are obsesed with the past and can't seem to let it go. You will become a very bitter Jets fan and have great difficulty cheering for this team simply because they aren't playing the teams you want them to play. You have written this alignment off without giving it a chance. I'm sorry to see that you don't even have an open mind to the potential. Life as a Jets fan will become very difficult for you as a result. I wish you all the best in that regard.
This seems a bit heavy handed.
Peter isn't being outrageous in his objections to realignment. In fact, though I disagree with him I think he brings up some good points. The way I read what he's saying (correct me if I'm wrong) is not that he won't watch the Jets after realignment rather there are more appealing options to him. Heck, I don't think anyone would call this the ideal conference, he's just stating what he'd prefer. I think it got bogged down in the geography debate. But he's hardly alone in saying that he'd rather play more canadian teams. Totally valid request.

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