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Realignment approved by BOG - Jets move to Western Conference, "Division B"

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02-25-2013, 12:00 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by wpgsilver View Post
This seems a bit heavy handed.
Peter isn't being outrageous in his objections to realignment. In fact, though I disagree with him I think he brings up some good points. The way I read what he's saying (correct me if I'm wrong) is not that he won't watch the Jets after realignment rather there are more appealing options to him. Heck, I don't think anyone would call this the ideal conference, he's just stating what he'd prefer. I think it got bogged down in the geography debate. But he's hardly alone in saying that he'd rather play more canadian teams. Totally valid request.
It may be very heavy handed, but it's a very plausible reality. Some who is this set against something that will almost be guaranteed to happen without trying to give it a chance will be a very unhappy person cheering for this team. You have to give it a chance without writing it off completely.

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02-25-2013, 12:02 AM
  #102
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Ooo I said I'd leave but remembered one thing... there is one pro if Jets' were to play more Canadian teams... I get to see them in Van hahah

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02-25-2013, 12:05 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
It may be very heavy handed, but it's a very plausible reality. Some who is this set against something that will almost be guaranteed to happen without trying to give it a chance will be a very unhappy person cheering for this team. You have to give it a chance without writing it off completely.
But what does "giving it a chance" mean?
That the proposal should remain free from criticism?
I don't think the options should be endorse an idea or abstain from the conversation.
I like the new division (compared to the first one proposed because I didn't like being in an 8 team conference) but I think I'm (as are most people here) knowledgeable enough to be able to voice an opinion/concern without seeing the product on the ice.

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02-25-2013, 12:07 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by wpgsilver View Post
But what does "giving it a chance" mean?
That the proposal should remain free from criticism?
I don't think the options should be endorse and idea or abstain from the conversation.
I like the new division (compared to the first one proposed because I didn't like being in an 8 team conference) but I think I'm (as are most people here) knowledgeable enough to be able to voice an opinion/concern without seeing the product on the ice.
Criticise it all you want, but only dwelling on the negatives won't change a thing when it becomes reality.

This argument has become circular, and I'm pretty wiped, so off to bed I go!

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02-25-2013, 01:37 AM
  #105
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We're the smallest market by far, we were never going to get much media coverage anyway

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02-25-2013, 02:14 AM
  #106
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We're the smallest market by far, we were never going to get much media coverage anyway
Even when the team was in Atlanta I don't think it got very much media coverage. Most games were on Turner South and then Fox Sports South and Sports South. I don't remember very many games on ESPN or NBC.

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02-25-2013, 03:56 AM
  #107
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All the talk about "geographical rivalries" only being possilble with the Canadian teams.

CGY-EDM-VAN already have each other in close proximity does anyone believe that they are going to care about Winnipeg?

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02-25-2013, 04:26 AM
  #108
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Color me confused by these arguments. Toronto has plenty of media exposure yet don't see free agents flocking there. Don't get why we care about how CBC treats us, clearly they already hate us with how they screwed us this year. Personally I prefer we never ever have a game on CBC and the Canadian national network which is a joke leaves us the hell alone. Tsn is already deeply invested in jets so no concern there.

Divisional playoffs(or 4 conferences) will quickly create great rivalries and we are going be quite comfy forgetting that this was even an issue. It's being done right.

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02-25-2013, 08:09 AM
  #109
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Peter Sullivan and I don't always share the same views, but I can say here I see most of his points. I also see many of the points being made by others. Honestly, this is a pretty good discussion coming from both sides.

I like our Conference in the fact that I believe we're in with some good organizations. Chicago and Minnesota are there, I think there is potential there for good match-ups. Chicago has some really good players, as does Minnesota now that they'll build off of Parise and Suter. Nashville is a well run organization. St. Louis is one of the up and coming teams in the league so if they sustain legitimacy at the top of the standings, there may be some good games there. Dallas and Colorado used to be atop the NHL's powerhouses, and both teams have some quality players.

It's interesting, I'll say that. Is it the most exciting to me, personally? My own personal opinion is no. I am with Peter in I really enjoy playing off against other fellow Canadian teams, especially in the playoffs, and I do fully see his point in the Western Canadian teams having the most, or a lot, of potential for bitter, ugly rivalries. I'm just not sure there is going to be that with most teams in our Conference. I won't count it out, however.

I see a lot of the points being made in the discussion, and I think they're all pretty valid ones.

Now a silly question as I haven't read up on it, how does the playoff system work itself out with these Conferences? I recall that last one being kind of crappy in that you'd have to face the same teams every year in rounds 1 or 2 or something to that effect. To me, that could get a bit boring after a while.

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02-25-2013, 10:51 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckschmuck View Post
I thinks it's pretty clear that you will never accept what is about to happen. You are obsesed with the past and can't seem to let it go. You will become a very bitter Jets fan and have great difficulty cheering for this team simply because they aren't playing the teams you want them to play. You have written this alignment off without giving it a chance. I'm sorry to see that you don't even have an open mind to the potential. Life as a Jets fan will become very difficult for you as a result. I wish you all the best in that regard.
I don't know that Peter is obsessed with the past since he currently knows lots of people in other Canadian markets and wants to be able to email then, text them or whatever to make bets or talk trash on a frequent basis. That's fun stuff and I understand why he hoped for more of that. The best solution is to go to Minnesota for some games, make some friends and get their email addresses/hfboard handles. Making friends should be easy if you buy some of them beers when their team scores (or maybe better, when the Jets score).

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02-25-2013, 11:21 AM
  #111
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I would have liked to have seen at least one other canadian team in there, but w/e, we've got Minny and that's good enough for me. I just want the opportunity to go on a road trip and get some cheap tickets, an minni's the closest team in the league.

I'm also not heavily entrenched in the past. I could see arguments for both sides.

things i like.

Minnesota -> i feel this will become our biggest rivalry going forward. Closest teams, similar budgets, both have strength on the blueline. Really feel we'll grow to hate each other.

Chicago -> an original six franchise with the hometown boy as captain. I can see a good rivalry here as even historically Winnipeg's competed against chicago (economics/etc) and there's alot of parallels between the two city's.

Colorado -> A young team with a lot of talent. They're in a similar stage as us and i can see both of our teams peaking at the same time resulting in some hotly contested series.


ThIngs i would have liked

Ottawa ->Definitly an underappreciated Canadian team, so i would have loved to have them in our division.

Edmonton -> a young highly skilled/small team. With bogo and trouba on our dline for the future, i relish the fantasy of them continuously blowing up there speedy skilled forwards. Would have been great games.

Vancouver -> I just don't like vancouver. When we had the moose and i got back into NHL hockey, i spent a season trying to be a vancouver fan. I just couldn't do it. The only player on their team i like is Luongo. I hate the way they play hockey, i hate the way their teams built, i hate how their players interview, i just don't like that team.


One last benefit with having Winnipeg not in a division of primarily canadian teams: statistaclly better chances that any canadian team makes the playoffs/gets home ice advantage. And that's something we can all get behind!

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02-25-2013, 12:18 PM
  #112
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I like some of the new realignment. Obviously teams like Nashville, St. Louis, even Dallas, aren't "sexy" names necessarily, but the Blues and Preds especially are good organizations. If we're really following the Nashville model for the Jets, that will be a good matchup.

Chicago and Minnesota are the highlights for me in that division. We know that Jets fans will make the trip down to Minnesota to watch the games. They're geographically closer than any other team in the league, for those who are making that argument. Chicago is a big name and draw attention regardless. Colorado even has a pretty decent fanbase in Winnipeg, and a young team going forward that should be fun to watch.

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02-25-2013, 12:55 PM
  #113
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@guerzy.

I believe the plan is still to have intra conference playoffs. And that's a huge selling point to me. You get to play your divisional opponents in playoffs how it should be. That's how rivalries are truly created. Right now you end with boring matches between teams barely care about one another. This is not the 80's super stupid 4/5 make playoffs though, here is 4/7 so it won't be exactly same teams like then, this still gives lots of leeway. Perfect mix for me.

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02-25-2013, 01:03 PM
  #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
@guerzy.

I believe the plan is still to have intra conference playoffs. And that's a huge selling point to me. You get to play your divisional opponents in playoffs how it should be. That's how rivalries are truly created. Right now you end with boring matches between teams barely care about one another. This is not the 80's super stupid 4/5 make playoffs though, here is 4/7 so it won't be exactly same teams like then, this still gives lots of leeway. Perfect mix for me.
Thanks, Holden.

I see your points here, and tend to agree. If we were to get in some good match-ups during the regular season vs. Chicago, Minnesota, etc.. even a team like St. Louis, then have a playoff round or two or three with them over the years, surely some form of rivalry is going to build there, I would think.

And honestly, when it comes down to it, rivalries are born and form a true identity on the ice, not in the media. I understand and fully agree the media helps, but you can only build something up so much that it has to happen on the ice for it to be worth a damn. And once we begin seeing these teams consistently, and meeting them in the playoffs, something is bound to happen.

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02-25-2013, 01:07 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
@guerzy.

I believe the plan is still to have intra conference playoffs. And that's a huge selling point to me. You get to play your divisional opponents in playoffs how it should be. That's how rivalries are truly created. Right now you end with boring matches between teams barely care about one another. This is not the 80's super stupid 4/5 make playoffs though, here is 4/7 so it won't be exactly same teams like then, this still gives lots of leeway. Perfect mix for me.
Good post Holden. One reason the divisional playoffs tainted me a bit was because of the 80's Oilers and Flames were so good Winnipeg got punished by being in that division. That being said now the parity is much closer and I highly doubt that situation crops up again. Also as you said it’s no longer 4 of 5 teams making the playoffs so we will get allot more variety this time around and that is absolutely where you learn to hate teams.

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02-25-2013, 01:16 PM
  #116
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How did CBC screw us this year? If this is the new alignment we'll be in the least televised division in sports. I still can't believe we have to pay to watch the Jets, it's disgusting and I refuse to do it.

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02-25-2013, 02:41 PM
  #117
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How did CBC screw us this year? If this is the new alignment we'll be in the least televised division in sports. I still can't believe we have to pay to watch the Jets, it's disgusting and I refuse to do it.
Honest question, how is paying for TSN Jets any different than fans in Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa, and Toronto having to pay for Sportsnet?

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02-25-2013, 03:05 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
@guerzy.

I believe the plan is still to have intra conference playoffs. And that's a huge selling point to me. You get to play your divisional opponents in playoffs how it should be. That's how rivalries are truly created. Right now you end with boring matches between teams barely care about one another. This is not the 80's super stupid 4/5 make playoffs though, here is 4/7 so it won't be exactly same teams like then, this still gives lots of leeway. Perfect mix for me.
You're correct that this ratio will make for more variety on how things turn out. BUT... Top 8 should be top 8. The Jets would likely have made it to round 2 or further a few more times in the 80's had the format been top 8 back then. In 85 we had the 4th best record in the entire league (96 pts)... and we had to play the tied for 5th best team (Calgary 92 pts) in the first round (who we beat) only to run into #2 Edmonton (109) in the next round. That means we would have had a good chance to make the conference final that year. In reality we should have played Detroit (66 pts) or maybe LA (82 pts) in the first round. Face off with Calgary in the 2nd round and then accept our fate against the Oilers in the Conference finals.

I also think that the division leaders should only be guaranteed a top 8 spot not a top 3. The idea is to have the BEST teams make it as far as possible. A return to the old playoff format is a step backwards in that regard.

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02-25-2013, 03:07 PM
  #119
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Honest question, how is paying for TSN Jets any different than fans in Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Ottawa, and Toronto having to pay for Sportsnet?
Sportsnet is often a basic channel in those markets, meaning they don't have to pay for an extra channel grouping to get it.

As far as CBC and our Saturday schedule, all games bar the one in Toronto are 2pm or earlier starts. Some aren't even on the national network. Some people feel that we're not getting the national exposure of Saturday night games.

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02-25-2013, 03:34 PM
  #120
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Sportsnet is often a basic channel in those markets, meaning they don't have to pay for an extra channel grouping to get it.

As far as CBC and our Saturday schedule, all games bar the one in Toronto are 2pm or earlier starts. Some aren't even on the national network. Some people feel that we're not getting the national exposure of Saturday night games.
We wouldn't get national coverage if the game started at 7 anyways. It would be a regional telecast. There is no argument to be made that justifies the Habs and leafs not playing in prime time.

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02-25-2013, 03:58 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by tbcwpg View Post
Sportsnet is often a basic channel in those markets, meaning they don't have to pay for an extra channel grouping to get it.
Is it really? Didn't know that. I know that if I want Sportsnet I need to pay for it as part of a package. Didn't know other people got it for free.

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02-25-2013, 04:03 PM
  #122
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I personally would much rather see some Canadian teams in our division. Its so much easier to follow other Canadian teams with the coverage we get in Canada. Its be nicer to know more aobut our competition. Still can't comprehend why Dallas and Nashville aren't grouped with other Soutehrn teams in Florida and Tampa.

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02-25-2013, 04:23 PM
  #123
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Is it really? Didn't know that. I know that if I want Sportsnet I need to pay for it as part of a package. Didn't know other people got it for free.
I only know Shaw service, so just the markets that they provide service for, but under the new bundling (other packages like "Digital classic" may be different), the personal TV, which is basic, has Sportsnet in every city (Winnipeg included, although that doesn't matter much for NHL now). Other providers like Telus, or MTS, might have it differently.

I don't agree with the "national exposure" argument either, but I think the trade-off of more Saturday afternoon games in order to be on regular TV, doesn't fly that much. Many people use Saturday afternoon as an errands day, and miss the games.

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02-25-2013, 04:50 PM
  #124
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Sportsnet is often a basic channel in those markets, meaning they don't have to pay for an extra channel grouping to get it.

As far as CBC and our Saturday schedule, all games bar the one in Toronto are 2pm or earlier starts. Some aren't even on the national network. Some people feel that we're not getting the national exposure of Saturday night games.
I have basic cable in Toronto and don't get the Leafs channel, whatever it's called, as I found out to my surprise when the Jets played them recently.

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02-25-2013, 04:54 PM
  #125
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I personally would much rather see some Canadian teams in our division. Its so much easier to follow other Canadian teams with the coverage we get in Canada. Its be nicer to know more aobut our competition. Still can't comprehend why Dallas and Nashville aren't grouped with other Soutehrn teams in Florida and Tampa.
Because moving across several time zones every time you make a road trip messes with an athletes internal clock. It's not so much the time spent traveling, it's the change to your routine and internal clock that hurts the players.

It's much better to align teams in time zones.

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