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02-24-2013, 07:08 PM
  #176
playasRus
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Will take Medium-High cost guys that can play 15min and contribute on the sheet any day over low cost 5 minute playing goons.

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02-24-2013, 07:10 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Bruiser View Post
Those low cost guys are basically utility forwards. They would end up being the 13th forward and you would insert them into the lineup against physical teams. For the most part every player on that list could make a similar impact to Daugavins except for the fact that they are more physical and willing to agitate and fight.
Sure, but we already have other guys not named Daugavins who can play physical, and they're already in the lineup. We can go out and get LOTS of guys who are better than Daugavins, but adding toughness to this team isn't a big priority.

Also, and this should be pretty common knowledge by now: I don;t give one iota of **** about fighters. I loves me some tough players, but the stage-fighters can stay the eff home. Don't want 'em anywhere near my team.

If we're making a hockey trade to help this year, we need skill. We already have toughness. We're playing tough hockey already. We're already one of the tougher teams in the league. What we don't have in the organization right now is depth of any kind in NHL-ready skilled players.


*EDIT*
I just saw your edit agreeing that we need to add skill before muscle. So... yeah. Ok then. I guess we're in agreement?

Good times.

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Old
02-24-2013, 07:12 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by playasRus View Post
Will take Medium-High cost guys that can play 15min and contribute on the sheet any day over low cost 5 minute playing goons.
Preach it, sister!

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Old
02-24-2013, 07:12 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
but need to be sheltered and played like 6mins.
MacLean has been playing the 4th line about 9 minutes a game the last few games. Even the low cost guys I mentioned could play around that.

But at the end of the day, you get what you pay for.

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02-24-2013, 07:32 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
Sure, but we already have other guys not named Daugavins who can play physical, and they're already in the lineup. We can go out and get LOTS of guys who are better than Daugavins, but adding toughness to this team isn't a big priority.

Also, and this should be pretty common knowledge by now: I don;t give one iota of **** about fighters. I loves me some tough players, but the stage-fighters can stay the eff home. Don't want 'em anywhere near my team.

If we're making a hockey trade to help this year, we need skill. We already have toughness. We're playing tough hockey already. We're already one of the tougher teams in the league. What we don't have in the organization right now is depth of any kind in NHL-ready skilled players.


*EDIT*
I just saw your edit agreeing that we need to add skill before muscle. So... yeah. Ok then. I guess we're in agreement?

Good times.
I completely agree that skill is the priority. We have a better chance of winning more games if we can add a 30 goal scorer or 60 point guy than adding a bit more toughness. But at the same time that doesn't mean we couldn't benefit from adding a little more sandpaper. Adding a bit of depth in terms of gritty/tough players is always nice to have. Those types of players tend to perform a whole hell of a lot better in the playoffs and that is why they are often sought out at the trade deadline. Even those low cost guys could potentially benefit the team as depth toughness. But like I said previously it is more of a luxury than a priority.

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02-24-2013, 07:41 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by playasRus View Post
Will take Medium-High cost guys that can play 15min and contribute on the sheet any day over low cost 5 minute playing goons.
I don't think I would define any of the low cost guys as "goons". Maybe I have a different definition of "goon" then you do, but when I think of a "goon" I think of a guy who is a fighter that has struggled to put up 10 points at any level of hockey. Or at the very least a guy that has a hard time putting up 10 points in the AHL. A "goon" in my opinion is a player with next to no skill, very little hockey sense and is basically just a fighter.

None of the low cost guys I listed fit that description. They are all 4th liners though.

But aside from that I have to agree with you. I would much rather add a physical player that can play 15 minutes a game. Guys like Clutterbuck, Clifford, Smith-Pelly and Dorsett would all be nice additions on the Sens.

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02-24-2013, 08:01 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Bruiser View Post
I don't think I would define any of the low cost guys as "goons". Maybe I have a different definition of "goon" then you do, but when I think of a "goon" I think of a guy who is a fighter that has struggled to put up 10 points at any level of hockey. Or at the very least a guy that has a hard time putting up 10 points in the AHL. A "goon" in my opinion is a player with next to no skill, very little hockey sense and is basically just a fighter.
I think the best way to describe a goon is this - Ask yourself the following question: "If (player x) stopped fighting, would they still be in the NHL?"

If the answer is "no", then that's a goon. There are probably a few exceptions, but for the most part, this rule holds true.

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02-24-2013, 08:10 PM
  #183
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just because we were out-hit in the toronto game, doesn't mean were were out muscled. no need for 95% of the guys you mentioned bruiser. now, if we a chance to get someone like simmonds or hartnell then maybe. but no need for more "sandpaper" on this team. actually we could use less of sandpaper and more skill. once regin and (if) latendresse comes back, dd and grant will be back in ahl.

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02-24-2013, 08:19 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
I think the best way to describe a goon is this - Ask yourself the following question: "If (player x) stopped fighting, would they still be in the NHL?"

If the answer is "no", then that's a goon. There are probably a few exceptions, but for the most part, this rule holds true.
Thanks, I will keep that in mind.

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02-24-2013, 09:01 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by God Says No View Post
just because we were out-hit in the toronto game, doesn't mean were were out muscled. no need for 95% of the guys you mentioned bruiser. now, if we a chance to get someone like simmonds or hartnell then maybe. but no need for more "sandpaper" on this team. actually we could use less of sandpaper and more skill. once regin and (if) latendresse comes back, dd and grant will be back in ahl.
Dzuirzynski has one goal in five game which is one more goal than either Regin (2 assists) or Fatendresse (1 assist). I would keep DD & Grant over both those guys but of course because of contracts DD & Grant will be returned to Bingo unless Murray can trade Regin & Fat-guy-in-a-dress but I doubt anybody wants either. While both Regin & Latendresse look like they should be more skilled they are not getting any results & in the NHL results matter.

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02-24-2013, 09:14 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Bruiser View Post
Thanks, I will keep that in mind.
Meh, just my opinion, though.

Different strokes for different folks.

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02-24-2013, 09:41 PM
  #187
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If you have the puck most of the game, chances are you will be outhit, no?

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02-24-2013, 09:57 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz View Post
If you have the puck most of the game, chances are you will be outhit, no?
That is an excellent point. Sometimes it is better to not hit but usse your stick effectively to chip the puck away.

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02-24-2013, 11:07 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by aragorn View Post
Dzuirzynski has one goal in five game which is one more goal than either Regin (2 assists) or Fatendresse (1 assist). I would keep DD & Grant over both those guys but of course because of contracts DD & Grant will be returned to Bingo unless Murray can trade Regin & Fat-guy-in-a-dress but I doubt anybody wants either. While both Regin & Latendresse look like they should be more skilled they are not getting any results & in the NHL results matter.
it's painfully obvious we need skill in the lineup. regin and latendresse bring that. dd and grant, not so much. grant is only noticable when he takes face offs. yeah dd has a goal but it doesn't mean much, it's just one goal. how many scoring chances has he actually created vs. regin or latendresse.

the ahl boys are not likely to be playing when they come back. not because of contracts, it's just they are more skilled. simple as that.

we don't need more sandpaper. sandpaper will not score goals. skills will. we have enough toughness even without grant and dd.

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02-25-2013, 12:21 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by God Says No View Post
it's painfully obvious we need skill in the lineup. regin and latendresse bring that. dd and grant, not so much. grant is only noticable when he takes face offs. yeah dd has a goal but it doesn't mean much, it's just one goal. how many scoring chances has he actually created vs. regin or latendresse.

the ahl boys are not likely to be playing when they come back. not because of contracts, it's just they are more skilled. simple as that.

we don't need more sandpaper. sandpaper will not score goals. skills will. we have enough toughness even without grant and dd.
I agree the team needs more skill, but I wouldn't be looking to these two guys as the answer. Each guy had a promising season a couple years ago, but since then they have shown nothing remotely close that.

Sure, people can argue that they haven't been able to showcase their skill because of injuries, but I would argue it's because of those injuries that has lead them to play a far too tentative game now.

I doubt either player sees regular time with any team next season.

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02-25-2013, 12:41 AM
  #191
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Originally Posted by balaclava brian View Post
I agree the team needs more skill, but I wouldn't be looking to these two guys as the answer. Each guy had a promising season a couple years ago, but since then they have shown nothing remotely close that.

Sure, people can argue that they haven't been able to showcase their skill because of injuries, but I would argue it's because of those injuries that has lead them to play a far too tentative game now.

I doubt either player sees regular time with any team next season.
Agree all around. I think you nailed it.

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02-25-2013, 08:45 AM
  #192
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Originally Posted by balaclava brian View Post
I agree the team needs more skill, but I wouldn't be looking to these two guys as the answer. Each guy had a promising season a couple years ago, but since then they have shown nothing remotely close that.

Sure, people can argue that they haven't been able to showcase their skill because of injuries, but I would argue it's because of those injuries that has lead them to play a far too tentative game now.

I doubt either player sees regular time with any team next season.
i'm talking about this season though, and they are our only option right now. (barring some kind of trade)

yeah, next year it's a completely different story.

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02-25-2013, 09:55 AM
  #193
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Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz View Post
If you have the puck most of the game, chances are you will be outhit, no?
as proven in every game ive been crushed while playing every version of EA NHL franchise.

"but the hits are 47 to 12!!! how did i lose"

"you never had the puck"

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02-25-2013, 09:57 AM
  #194
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Id say this too. if there is another Chris Neil available somewhere out there - id take him in a second and give up a decent price to get him.

if its just another big body who can skate pretty well is pretty physical and a pretty good fighter, i have ZERO interest.

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02-25-2013, 10:33 AM
  #195
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Originally Posted by God Says No View Post
just because we were out-hit in the toronto game, doesn't mean were were out muscled. no need for 95% of the guys you mentioned bruiser. now, if we a chance to get someone like simmonds or hartnell then maybe. but no need for more "sandpaper" on this team. actually we could use less of sandpaper and more skill. once regin and (if) latendresse comes back, dd and grant will be back in ahl.
Using hits as the measure of toughness is inappropriate. Taking hits to make plays is IMO a greater indication of toughness.

For example, Carlyle's offensive system relies heavily on set plays and the dump and chase to enter the O-zone.

The concept is simple, use team speed and positioning to allow for uncontested hits on the D. The fundamental purpose is to wear down the opposition's D and over 60 minutes the expectant result is more and more offensive zone time.

This isn't a display of toughness, hitting retreating D is easy prey for the most part. What it is meant to do is breakdown the opposing players focus (intimidate) resulting in turnovers and gain puck possession.

IMO the Sens showed greater toughness in taking the hits while focusing on puck retrieval and movement, which they did with great regularity on Saturday night.

PS taking any statistic out of the context of the game is pointless.


Last edited by Holdurbreathe: 02-25-2013 at 10:54 AM.
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Old
02-25-2013, 10:40 AM
  #196
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Id say this too. if there is another Chris Neil available somewhere out there - id take him in a second and give up a decent price to get him.

if its just another big body who can skate pretty well is pretty physical and a pretty good fighter, i have ZERO interest.
Hopefully our Chris Neil starts to play better, other than the hits he really hasn't played close to his capability the past few games.

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02-25-2013, 10:52 AM
  #197
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Originally Posted by God Says No View Post
it's painfully obvious we need skill in the lineup. regin and latendresse bring that. dd and grant, not so much. grant is only noticable when he takes face offs. yeah dd has a goal but it doesn't mean much, it's just one goal. how many scoring chances has he actually created vs. regin or latendresse.

the ahl boys are not likely to be playing when they come back. not because of contracts, it's just they are more skilled. simple as that.

we don't need more sandpaper. sandpaper will not score goals. skills will. we have enough toughness even without grant and dd.
Grant is playing 4th line minutes and doing a good job, he won't be coming out of the lineup when Regin is back is my bet. Regin will probably replace Daugavins.

Latendresse doesn't belong in the NHL, he just can't keep up. It will be most interesting what the Sens do with him when he is ready to come off IR. Waivers would be a good start in my mind.

The return of Michalek will be most interesting to watch and the moves that will entail.

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02-25-2013, 11:08 AM
  #198
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Fun fact - Chicago is dead last in hits in the NHL.

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02-25-2013, 11:33 AM
  #199
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Fun fact - Chicago is dead last in hits in the NHL.
Fun fact: Regular season means nothing in the playoffs. Sens fans should know this.

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02-25-2013, 11:35 AM
  #200
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Teams with lots of hits don't tend to have the puck as much.

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