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Team Gameplan & Strategy "The System"

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Old
02-24-2013, 08:34 PM
  #1
Kel Varnsen
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Team Gameplan & Strategy "The System"

The new HF NYR boards meme seems to be bash the "system" but beyond, "We should play more offense" people haven't really fleshed out the topic so this would be a good place to do that if you have something meaningful to say.

My thoughts, first off the system isn't don't score. You wouldn't get that reading a lot of what's posted around here, so I wanted to start there. Next I think it should be noted that we do carry the puck in at times, but the system has been to make sure you get it in, so if that means dump and chase then yeah that's more preferable than neutral zone turnovers. And guess what, that's the way most teams go about it. You don't have room to carry it in you dump and chase. That's the nature of the NHL, you want all this puck carrying watch the soft euro leagues with their giant rinks. And again, don't forget we DO carry it in. We just haven't looked great doing it. My guess is because we don't have that many great puck carriers. We lost our best last year in Dubi, and this year it's Nash but he really likes to go one v one in the offensive zone when he carries. Dubi would go coast to coast more comfortably and just carry in to the O zone and then move it a lot more.

This team isn't a puck carrying team. It can't be. And realize that that doesn't mean it can't be a puck possession team though. This year we've seen long spurts where we set up in the O zone and just take it to the other team for shifts at a time. But in terms of taking the puck up territorially we don't have anyone who is particularly good at it or comfortable at it. So we do what we need to to move it up. It's not ideal but it's how we've built the team. We need to grind.

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02-24-2013, 08:56 PM
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Then why do we have Gabs, Richards and Nash playing for us? They aren't grinders. If the team lives and dies with this dump and chase system, then we should've gone for players who work well along the boards.

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02-24-2013, 09:17 PM
  #3
Kel Varnsen
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Originally Posted by Dangleberry View Post
Then why do we have Gabs, Richards and Nash playing for us? They aren't grinders. If the team lives and dies with this dump and chase system, then we should've gone for players who work well along the boards.
Because they were the best players available to us.

Gabby and Richy both showed us last year (and for Gabby a bunch of years now) that they can have tremendous success without being a puck carrying team. Nash was having success in it this year until he got hurt, his line was on fire before that injury.

Once we're in the zone these guys can hold the puck, but some people are confusing that with carrying the puck into the zone.

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02-24-2013, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Because they were the best players available to us.

Gabby and Richy both showed us last year (and for Gabby a bunch of years now) that they can have tremendous success without being a puck carrying team. Nash was having success in it this year until he got hurt, his line was on fire before that injury.

Once we're in the zone these guys can hold the puck, but some people are confusing that with carrying the puck into the zone.
Talent is an integral component you can't deny. Not making the effort to improve dramatically forces you to lose to competition which has.

Recognizing THAT, and the types of players we acquired, who were the best available, it is beyond stupidity into sheer madness to allow any system, particularly one as misguided as the smoke and mirrors Torts pulls, to be dictating to the club.

The system must bend buckle and break to the players, not the other way around.

And whatever system we accept, whatever it may emphasize, it should be flexible.

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02-24-2013, 09:34 PM
  #5
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The "system" works. Everyone needs to play better.

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02-24-2013, 09:37 PM
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Is there an inherent inability to use a short passing game to progress up the ice? I can see no reason why the Rangers should not be able to make their way up the ice at least as well as, oh let's pick a team that does it much better, the Toronto Maple Leafs.

The key is, why can't the Rangers get in without dumping? I don't think they should be reckless either, and sure, dump it in if you have to. The problem is, and oh yes, it is definitely a problem, that they don't have good enough support for each other in a nice, compact short passing game. If they cannot get better at that, they will have to do the dump-in, which is really a roll of the dice these days as to which team gets possession.

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02-24-2013, 10:11 PM
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My main issue with Torts system is mainly around the overuse and implementation of the "stretch pass".

I get why he does it. Torts wants to keep the opposing team honest, so that they do not overcommit on the attack. Also, that our Dmen are giving defensive coverage in our end in case of turn overs in the neutral zone.

But, it is so unbelievably ineffective imo, save for a few set plays here and there. Its almost willingly giving up the puck to opposing team. Our forwards are too far up ice and stationary in the neutral zone. That doesn't even take into account the times where those passes get intercepted by opposing players anyways.

How the hell are you going to penetrate a zone consistently when your forwards have no momentum half of the time?

You can't even do proper dump ins because our forwards are usually flatfooted when the puck is entering the offensive zone.

its awful, its ALWAYS been awful(including last year).

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02-24-2013, 10:30 PM
  #8
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the way i see it we never really change anything...


DEFENSE LEADS TO OFFENSE

1. block shot
2. puck lands in your feet
3. opponent is the first guy on the puck
4. opponent stick-handles around you and 1 of 2 things happens
a. he shoots and has a strong scoring chance
b. another ranger leaves his man to block the shot and leaves a passing lane wide open
5. lundqvist has to make a quality save and get a whistle or the puck stays in the zone and this continues until somebody on the other team screws up and turns the puck over where we'll probably just end up giving it away to their defense in the neutral zone anyway or going offsides

THEN THE OFFENSE

1. dump the puck in, hagelin chases it
2. hagelin gets the puck gives it blindly to the center who is hopefully following up the play(if we're not making a change in which case he will give it to the other team on the tape so that he can change too)(if hagelin is not on the ice ignore the forecheck and simply change lines as usual)
3. entire team is already collapsed on the center who by now is in the slot
4. center makes a blind drop pass or backhands it to a defenseman who is not at the point and the other team jumps on the puck and turns the other way forcing mcdonagh (RIP) to make a mad dash halfway across the ice because del zotto just missed a hit and let his guy get past him on a 1 on 0

THEN THE POWERPLAY

1. %&@$
2. &%$#
3. $#@! %$#@ $#@
4. del zotto pinches in
5. del zotto shoots wide from in the crease or gets checked off the puck
6. other team gets on a 2v1 against richards
7. callahan comes out of nowhere to break up the pass
8. caught in the neutral zone for the other 1:30 of the PP

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Old
02-24-2013, 10:42 PM
  #9
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brilliant Piece. +1

Quote:
Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
the way i see it we never really change anything...


DEFENSE LEADS TO OFFENSE

1. block shot
2. puck lands in your feet
3. opponent is the first guy on the puck
4. opponent stick-handles around you and 1 of 2 things happens
a. he shoots and has a strong scoring chance
b. another ranger leaves his man to block the shot and leaves a passing lane wide open
5. lundqvist has to make a quality save and get a whistle or the puck stays in the zone and this continues until somebody on the other team screws up and turns the puck over where we'll probably just end up giving it away to their defense in the neutral zone anyway or going offsides

THEN THE OFFENSE

1. dump the puck in, hagelin chases it
2. hagelin gets the puck gives it blindly to the center who is hopefully following up the play(if we're not making a change in which case he will give it to the other team on the tape so that he can change too)(if hagelin is not on the ice ignore the forecheck and simply change lines as usual)
3. entire team is already collapsed on the center who by now is in the slot
4. center makes a blind drop pass or backhands it to a defenseman who is not at the point and the other team jumps on the puck and turns the other way forcing mcdonagh (RIP) to make a mad dash halfway across the ice because del zotto just missed a hit and let his guy get past him on a 1 on 0

THEN THE POWERPLAY

1. %&@$
2. &%$#
3. $#@! %$#@ $#@
4. del zotto pinches in
5. del zotto shoots wide from in the crease or gets checked off the puck
6. other team gets on a 2v1 against richards
7. callahan comes out of nowhere to break up the pass
8. caught in the neutral zone for the other 1:30 of the PP

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Old
02-24-2013, 10:42 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
the way i see it we never really change anything...


DEFENSE LEADS TO OFFENSE

1. block shot
2. puck lands in your feet
3. opponent is the first guy on the puck
4. opponent stick-handles around you and 1 of 2 things happens
a. he shoots and has a strong scoring chance
b. another ranger leaves his man to block the shot and leaves a passing lane wide open
5. lundqvist has to make a quality save and get a whistle or the puck stays in the zone and this continues until somebody on the other team screws up and turns the puck over where we'll probably just end up giving it away to their defense in the neutral zone anyway or going offsides

THEN THE OFFENSE

1. dump the puck in, hagelin chases it
2. hagelin gets the puck gives it blindly to the center who is hopefully following up the play(if we're not making a change in which case he will give it to the other team on the tape so that he can change too)(if hagelin is not on the ice ignore the forecheck and simply change lines as usual)
3. entire team is already collapsed on the center who by now is in the slot
4. center makes a blind drop pass or backhands it to a defenseman who is not at the point and the other team jumps on the puck and turns the other way forcing mcdonagh (RIP) to make a mad dash halfway across the ice because del zotto just missed a hit and let his guy get past him on a 1 on 0

THEN THE POWERPLAY

1. %&@$
2. &%$#
3. $#@! %$#@ $#@
4. del zotto pinches in
5. del zotto shoots wide from in the crease or gets checked off the puck
6. other team gets on a 2v1 against richards
7. callahan comes out of nowhere to break up the pass
8. caught in the neutral zone for the other 1:30 of the PP
This is the best post ever.

It's funny because it's true.

I'd say that the system is doing its job very well if the purpose is to give fans high blood pressure. Too much "drama." Not enough results. We do not possess the puck enough. Simple as that. I watched the third period of TBL-PIT today. None of those teams dump the puck in unless it's with a purpose. (You know that your team mate is getting their first, and you dump it into the optimal area.) We just dump it in, and 85% of the time, lose possession of the puck completely, followed by 1000 attempts to block opponent's shots.

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Old
02-24-2013, 10:43 PM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
My main issue with Torts system is mainly around the overuse and implementation of the "stretch pass".

I get why he does it. Torts wants to keep the opposing team honest, so that they do not overcommit on the attack. Also, that our Dmen are giving defensive coverage in our end in case of turn overs in the neutral zone.

But, it is so unbelievably ineffective imo, save for a few set plays here and there. Its almost willingly giving up the puck to opposing team. Our forwards are too far up ice and stationary in the neutral zone. That doesn't even take into account the times where those passes get intercepted by opposing players anyways.

How the hell are you going to penetrate a zone consistently when your forwards have no momentum half of the time?

You can't even do proper dump ins because our forwards are usually flatfooted when the puck is entering the offensive zone.

its awful, its ALWAYS been awful(including last year).
Finally an intelligent post about this subject. With some detail and break down.

Its impossible around here lately to find meaningful discussion about this.

While I personally have no complaints about the systems in place I do have quarrel about some of the personnel to run them.

I agree, its not in favor of pucj possession aside from below the goal line in the offensive zone. Its structure is to force the opposition into favorable patches of ice and to force mistakes.

You'd think that a quick strike player like Gaborik would relish this because he doesn't necessarily need to be physical as much as just skate hard to be in those spots to gain possession and quickly attack the net. He hasn't put in the effort to win those races to pucks nor engaged in support. That needs to change.

The only player we have that can play with some free reign and still be effective every shift is Nash. He has the ability to carry and gain the zone on his own.

The set plays are in place to help the rest of them. It should work.

The "jam" that Torts always alludes to isn't necessarily or exclusive to just physical play. Its a gritty mind set. Skating hard winning races. Not giving up on second efforts. That's part of what makes his systems successful. The no quit mentality of the roster last year is the kind of attitude we need now.

Opening up, its not wise IMO. Longer passes to stretch the opposition. Specifically east-west. Grounds for a lot of prime scoring chances against. Odd man rushes.

We have also had incredible bad luck finishing. We have generated good scoring opportunities and just failed to capitalize.

The power play is where we should be more creative but we aren't. That's a big problem.

We need a Dan Boyle, Brian Campbell type on the blue line. A guy who can change tempo. Skate the puck. Improve our transition. Gaining the 200 feet has been an issue, particularly on the power play.

These rash of injuries is certainty going to hurt our trade options and leverages, as well.

I don't see the sky falling.To me Tortorella is the right guy with the right attitude. We need a few personnel changes. More speed. More effort.

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Old
02-24-2013, 11:52 PM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
the way i see it we never really change anything...


DEFENSE LEADS TO OFFENSE

1. block shot
2. puck lands in your feet
3. opponent is the first guy on the puck
4. opponent stick-handles around you and 1 of 2 things happens
a. he shoots and has a strong scoring chance
b. another ranger leaves his man to block the shot and leaves a passing lane wide open
5. lundqvist has to make a quality save and get a whistle or the puck stays in the zone and this continues until somebody on the other team screws up and turns the puck over where we'll probably just end up giving it away to their defense in the neutral zone anyway or going offsides

THEN THE OFFENSE

1. dump the puck in, hagelin chases it
2. hagelin gets the puck gives it blindly to the center who is hopefully following up the play(if we're not making a change in which case he will give it to the other team on the tape so that he can change too)(if hagelin is not on the ice ignore the forecheck and simply change lines as usual)
3. entire team is already collapsed on the center who by now is in the slot
4. center makes a blind drop pass or backhands it to a defenseman who is not at the point and the other team jumps on the puck and turns the other way forcing mcdonagh (RIP) to make a mad dash halfway across the ice because del zotto just missed a hit and let his guy get past him on a 1 on 0

THEN THE POWERPLAY

1. %&@$
2. &%$#
3. $#@! %$#@ $#@
4. del zotto pinches in
5. del zotto shoots wide from in the crease or gets checked off the puck
6. other team gets on a 2v1 against richards
7. callahan comes out of nowhere to break up the pass
8. caught in the neutral zone for the other 1:30 of the PP
Callahan coming out of nowhere to break up the pass made me laugh

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Old
02-24-2013, 11:59 PM
  #13
Bob Richards
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
the way i see it we never really change anything...


DEFENSE LEADS TO OFFENSE

1. block shot
2. puck lands in your feet
3. opponent is the first guy on the puck
4. opponent stick-handles around you and 1 of 2 things happens
a. he shoots and has a strong scoring chance
b. another ranger leaves his man to block the shot and leaves a passing lane wide open
5. lundqvist has to make a quality save and get a whistle or the puck stays in the zone and this continues until somebody on the other team screws up and turns the puck over where we'll probably just end up giving it away to their defense in the neutral zone anyway or going offsides

THEN THE OFFENSE

1. dump the puck in, hagelin chases it
2. hagelin gets the puck gives it blindly to the center who is hopefully following up the play(if we're not making a change in which case he will give it to the other team on the tape so that he can change too)(if hagelin is not on the ice ignore the forecheck and simply change lines as usual)
3. entire team is already collapsed on the center who by now is in the slot
4. center makes a blind drop pass or backhands it to a defenseman who is not at the point and the other team jumps on the puck and turns the other way forcing mcdonagh (RIP) to make a mad dash halfway across the ice because del zotto just missed a hit and let his guy get past him on a 1 on 0

THEN THE POWERPLAY

1. %&@$
2. &%$#
3. $#@! %$#@ $#@
4. del zotto pinches in
5. del zotto shoots wide from in the crease or gets checked off the puck
6. other team gets on a 2v1 against richards
7. callahan comes out of nowhere to break up the pass
8. caught in the neutral zone for the other 1:30 of the PP
I laughed way too hard at this. The Callahan part was probably best.

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Old
02-25-2013, 12:30 AM
  #14
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Problem with the dump-and-chase is 8 times out of 10, there's no chase component. And then on those odd 2 other times, there's no back up even if we do win the race so whoever had possession just gets stripped and that's that.

Passing: far too much of it once we're in the offensive zone. Been looking for that perfect and prettiest pass/play/shot for the better part of the last decade which would explain the lack of scoring.

Shot blocking: Yes, useful tool, but not the best to base a team's entire identity and play style around it. Should be regarded as a supplementary tool and not a full-on tactic; unfortunately Torts uses it as a tactic.

Shooting: Aside from the usual fact that there aren't enough, there aren't enough getting through. They've always had a problem with getting shots through with traffic in front of the net.

Passing: This season has been abysmal in terms of passing. Watch almost any other top team and they're making crisp, accurate passes.

Throwing the puck away: All too often when we're in the defensive zone, almost as soon as a Ranger gets possession of the puck is it chucked against the glass or around the boards for an icing in either case. Girardi has been the biggest offender of this for years now and him and that play have royally screwed this team over more times than I want to think about. I'm not saying they have to establish control of the puck 100% of the time in 100% of situations, but they have to stop for literally 1 extra second and see what the hell is going on. Also can someone tell them that they don't have to ice it when they throw it out of the zone?

Power Play: Shots. More. More and more.

All in all, it feels like they have player roles mixed up. If Gaborik is supposed to be a sniper, why does he get parked in front of the net most of the time? Shouldn't he be the one on the point? It just seems that they're trying to get the grinders to play like snipers and the snipers to play like grinders and everyone has to do everything to, from, and in between otherwise they'll "be in Torts' doghouse."

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Old
02-25-2013, 12:36 AM
  #15
Kel Varnsen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trilobyte View Post
Is there an inherent inability to use a short passing game to progress up the ice? I can see no reason why the Rangers should not be able to make their way up the ice at least as well as, oh let's pick a team that does it much better, the Toronto Maple Leafs.

The key is, why can't the Rangers get in without dumping? I don't think they should be reckless either, and sure, dump it in if you have to. The problem is, and oh yes, it is definitely a problem, that they don't have good enough support for each other in a nice, compact short passing game. If they cannot get better at that, they will have to do the dump-in, which is really a roll of the dice these days as to which team gets possession.
Because most of our forwards are below average puck carriers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueshirt Believer View Post
My main issue with Torts system is mainly around the overuse and implementation of the "stretch pass".

I get why he does it. Torts wants to keep the opposing team honest, so that they do not overcommit on the attack. Also, that our Dmen are giving defensive coverage in our end in case of turn overs in the neutral zone.

But, it is so unbelievably ineffective imo, save for a few set plays here and there. Its almost willingly giving up the puck to opposing team. Our forwards are too far up ice and stationary in the neutral zone. That doesn't even take into account the times where those passes get intercepted by opposing players anyways.

How the hell are you going to penetrate a zone consistently when your forwards have no momentum half of the time?

You can't even do proper dump ins because our forwards are usually flatfooted when the puck is entering the offensive zone.

its awful, its ALWAYS been awful(including last year).
I think this comes down to what I've been saying the biggest problem for this team is right now: lack of good puck carriers. When no one can take the puck and go with it you can try to avoid having to do that with long passes. As for standing around again it's because no one wants to carry the puck for any real time. The problem isn't "the system" it's that these guys force us to have to play this way. And even then, last year showed this can work. But in order for it to work everyone has to have an intense work ethic and commitment and it has seemed to be lacking this year. We can't afford to be at anything less than 100%, Torts has said that all the time. We're no good enough not to, Torts said that to the media all the time last year, I think some guys have it in their heads that that isn't the case this year.

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Old
02-25-2013, 12:45 AM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htk30 View Post
Problem with the dump-and-chase is 8 times out of 10, there's no chase component. And then on those odd 2 other times, there's no back up even if we do win the race so whoever had possession just gets stripped and that's that.

Passing: far too much of it once we're in the offensive zone. Been looking for that perfect and prettiest pass/play/shot for the better part of the last decade which would explain the lack of scoring.

Shot blocking: Yes, useful tool, but not the best to base a team's entire identity and play style around it. Should be regarded as a supplementary tool and not a full-on tactic; unfortunately Torts uses it as a tactic.

Shooting: Aside from the usual fact that there aren't enough, there aren't enough getting through. They've always had a problem with getting shots through with traffic in front of the net.

Passing: This season has been abysmal in terms of passing. Watch almost any other top team and they're making crisp, accurate passes.

Throwing the puck away: All too often when we're in the defensive zone, almost as soon as a Ranger gets possession of the puck is it chucked against the glass or around the boards for an icing in either case. Girardi has been the biggest offender of this for years now and him and that play have royally screwed this team over more times than I want to think about. I'm not saying they have to establish control of the puck 100% of the time in 100% of situations, but they have to stop for literally 1 extra second and see what the hell is going on. Also can someone tell them that they don't have to ice it when they throw it out of the zone?

Power Play: Shots. More. More and more.

All in all, it feels like they have player roles mixed up. If Gaborik is supposed to be a sniper, why does he get parked in front of the net most of the time? Shouldn't he be the one on the point? It just seems that they're trying to get the grinders to play like snipers and the snipers to play like grinders and everyone has to do everything to, from, and in between otherwise they'll "be in Torts' doghouse."
I think you oversimplified the dump and chase stuff along with shooting and passing. I agree with the general point, but you get too hyperbolic imo.

We shot blocked last year a ton, I think we actually haven't seen enough of it this year. I don't see the icings as much of an issue either.

As for the roles being mixed up, I think that's getting throw around here way too much. Go back and watch Gaborik's goals the past few years, most of them are right around the net. That being said I think Gabby taking shots from the point on the PP is interesting, I would definitely like to see him as the focal point of the PP instead of Richy.

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Old
02-25-2013, 01:15 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
I think you oversimplified the dump and chase stuff along with shooting and passing. I agree with the general point, but you get too hyperbolic imo.

We shot blocked last year a ton, I think we actually haven't seen enough of it this year. I don't see the icings as much of an issue either.

As for the roles being mixed up, I think that's getting throw around here way too much. Go back and watch Gaborik's goals the past few years, most of them are right around the net. That being said I think Gabby taking shots from the point on the PP is interesting, I would definitely like to see him as the focal point of the PP instead of Richy.
There has been a dip in actual shot blocking this season, but the shot blocking mentality is still perceived or taught to be the main game plan. And I think that's where some of this loss of identity started: With the loss of guys who were some big blockers for us, we expected the new comers to fill those spots and it didn't happen. So why not just scratch the idea that shot blocking is going to be the team's forte? I don't mind if some of them excel at it and want to, but maybe we don't need 3 guys sliding around in front of Lundqvist/Biron in an attempt to block a shot (which, due to Ranger luck, inevitably deflects off one of those blockers ).

The icings aren't really as much of a problem as instinctively tossing the puck away. I don't know, the Rangers tend to look very anxious/nervous in their own zone when there's the slightest bit of pressure compared to other teams.

As far as oversimplifying shooting/passing, I don't understand? Getting shots through is and has been one of our biggest problems, they have to find a way to get some of those shots through traffic to some extent and then fight for the rebound/lose puck. Passes seem to get flubbed relatively often with this team (whether in the neutral zone or offensive zone) and I absolutely understand that not every single pass is going to be perfect and not every single pass recipient is going to perfectly catch every pass, but it just seems like the frequency should be a lot lower.

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02-25-2013, 03:20 AM
  #18
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Originally Posted by htk30 View Post
There has been a dip in actual shot blocking this season, but the shot blocking mentality is still perceived or taught to be the main game plan. And I think that's where some of this loss of identity started: With the loss of guys who were some big blockers for us, we expected the new comers to fill those spots and it didn't happen. So why not just scratch the idea that shot blocking is going to be the team's forte? I don't mind if some of them excel at it and want to, but maybe we don't need 3 guys sliding around in front of Lundqvist/Biron in an attempt to block a shot (which, due to Ranger luck, inevitably deflects off one of those blockers ).

The icings aren't really as much of a problem as instinctively tossing the puck away. I don't know, the Rangers tend to look very anxious/nervous in their own zone when there's the slightest bit of pressure compared to other teams.

As far as oversimplifying shooting/passing, I don't understand? Getting shots through is and has been one of our biggest problems, they have to find a way to get some of those shots through traffic to some extent and then fight for the rebound/lose puck. Passes seem to get flubbed relatively often with this team (whether in the neutral zone or offensive zone) and I absolutely understand that not every single pass is going to be perfect and not every single pass recipient is going to perfectly catch every pass, but it just seems like the frequency should be a lot lower.
Boom. Nail on the head with a hammer. Now apply that to all three zones and you have our biggest problem this year - the team does not look confident... not at all. It's ESPECIALLY apparent in our own zone, though. It usually goes like this - other team dumps the puck in while their forwards come in to forecheck, Staal or Girardi goes behind the net to retrieve the puck, they don't take a look to the point to see if it's open and shoot the puck off the glass towards said point. That is the epitome of the defensive nervousness.

You watch the elite teams in this league and it seems like they're (or at least their better players) are more "cold-blooded" than our best players are. They bear down on their chances and make sure they hit the net, get that shot through, make an accurate pass, etc. Our players look jumpy out there. It's sad but it's clear as day and you've seen it most games this season. I think the only player who DOESN'T look like this is Rick Nash... go figure. The one player who you'd think would be thinking, "Please don't let me **** up in front of my new team!" looks like a cold-blooded stud out there. Gaborik looks like a scared school-girl. Either that, or he just doesn't want to give it his all. Same with Richie.

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02-25-2013, 08:07 AM
  #19
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Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
the way i see it we never really change anything...


DEFENSE LEADS TO OFFENSE

1. block shot
2. puck lands in your feet
3. opponent is the first guy on the puck
4. opponent stick-handles around you and 1 of 2 things happens
a. he shoots and has a strong scoring chance
b. another ranger leaves his man to block the shot and leaves a passing lane wide open
5. lundqvist has to make a quality save and get a whistle or the puck stays in the zone and this continues until somebody on the other team screws up and turns the puck over where we'll probably just end up giving it away to their defense in the neutral zone anyway or going offsides

THEN THE OFFENSE

1. dump the puck in, hagelin chases it
2. hagelin gets the puck gives it blindly to the center who is hopefully following up the play(if we're not making a change in which case he will give it to the other team on the tape so that he can change too)(if hagelin is not on the ice ignore the forecheck and simply change lines as usual)
3. entire team is already collapsed on the center who by now is in the slot
4. center makes a blind drop pass or backhands it to a defenseman who is not at the point and the other team jumps on the puck and turns the other way forcing mcdonagh (RIP) to make a mad dash halfway across the ice because del zotto just missed a hit and let his guy get past him on a 1 on 0

THEN THE POWERPLAY

1. %&@$
2. &%$#
3. $#@! %$#@ $#@
4. del zotto pinches in
5. del zotto shoots wide from in the crease or gets checked off the puck
6. other team gets on a 2v1 against richards
7. callahan comes out of nowhere to break up the pass
8. caught in the neutral zone for the other 1:30 of the PP
Was so sick and tired of a session I'm at until I read this. Thank you.

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02-25-2013, 09:04 AM
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Do teams employ a defensive system + Yes
Do teams have a forecheck system = Yes

Do teams really have an offensive "system"?
Offense is more about creativty and/or doing what you do best.

Why can't different lines play different sytles? Why can't the opposition partially determine the gameplan with regard to dumping or carrying.

I think we are over analyzing here. I certainly don't think Torts restricts creativty unless you think asking a player to be defnsively responsible is "restrictive".

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02-25-2013, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
Do teams employ a defensive system + Yes
Do teams have a forecheck system = Yes

Do teams really have an offensive "system"?
Offense is more about creativty and/or doing what you do best.

Why can't different lines play different sytles? Why can't the opposition partially determine the gameplan with regard to dumping or carrying.

I think we are over analyzing here. I certainly don't think Torts restricts creativty unless you think asking a player to be defnsively responsible is "restrictive".
Then explain to me why we dump and chase on the power play.

Explain to me why we have fast guys like Hagelin who dump it in at the center line and head to the bench.

Explain to me why we have Gabby grinding in the corners.

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02-25-2013, 09:12 AM
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The biggest problem I have with Torts' "system" is is unwillingness to adjust or change things game to game or even within game.

We are barely a playoff team this year with the way we are playing now. Adjustments have to be made plain and simple. It is insanity to just keep trying to do the same thing and expect different results at this point. In an 82 game season you might have the time to ride things out and hope things click, candidly we don't have that time to waste now, we are already in a hole.


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02-25-2013, 09:17 AM
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I'd love to plug as many young guys as possible into line up give them all top minutes roll 3-4 lines and see where the chips lie at end if season. Honestly between injuries and construction and schedule against only division rivals and lack of real road trips the chemistry of this group of plugged in players is not there .
One thing people fail to mention is the lack of real road trips is costing a gel of the team you get being on the road for 7-10 days together .

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02-25-2013, 09:46 AM
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The new HF NYR boards meme seems to be bash the "system" but beyond, "We should play more offense" people haven't really fleshed out the topic so this would be a good place to do that if you have something meaningful to say.

My thoughts, first off the system isn't don't score. You wouldn't get that reading a lot of what's posted around here, so I wanted to start there. Next I think it should be noted that we do carry the puck in at times, but the system has been to make sure you get it in, so if that means dump and chase then yeah that's more preferable than neutral zone turnovers. And guess what, that's the way most teams go about it. You don't have room to carry it in you dump and chase. That's the nature of the NHL, you want all this puck carrying watch the soft euro leagues with their giant rinks. And again, don't forget we DO carry it in. We just haven't looked great doing it. My guess is because we don't have that many great puck carriers. We lost our best last year in Dubi, and this year it's Nash but he really likes to go one v one in the offensive zone when he carries. Dubi would go coast to coast more comfortably and just carry in to the O zone and then move it a lot more.

This team isn't a puck carrying team. It can't be. And realize that that doesn't mean it can't be a puck possession team though. This year we've seen long spurts where we set up in the O zone and just take it to the other team for shifts at a time. But in terms of taking the puck up territorially we don't have anyone who is particularly good at it or comfortable at it. So we do what we need to to move it up. It's not ideal but it's how we've built the team. We need to grind.

I agree. I've actually felt this team has carried the play the majority of time in most games 5 on 5, they just havent been able to finish plays, some bad bounces - the other teams come back get 3 shots on net and 1 goes in. There have been a lot of bad bounce goals going in against the Rangers. A lot of posts, missed opportunities, and failed PP's for the Rangers.

I dont think the system is an issue if they dont give up a few leads and get a few bounces. The Rangers could easily be a 10 or 11 win team right now, even with the injuries they've sustained.

I think with the new players coming in, no camp, effected their start and more importantly their consistency. I know its the same excuses over and over again but i believe that, an early trade, the need to have to play some rookies and injuries have contributed to it.

I do however, hate the dump and chase on the PP. I think that's a lazy play and doesnt work. It can be done at the right time and its effective, but it cant be a set play. 70% of the time its a flat out giveaway and clear.

But a large part of Torts system is predicated on being positionally sound, timing and rotation - especially in the neutral zone. When you lose 3 or 4 guys that were very good in those areas it hurts so it takes some time to get back to it. Ive felt that this team has shown it can do it. Problem is its for a period or two and not 60 minutes, and again, to me thats because of all of the things I pointed out above.

Its important that the Rangers try to stick to their gameplan, especially at home because the heart of their system is defense and that has shown to win them a lot of games in the past. But when you have the last change i'd like to see Tortorella adjust a little better in game. His stubbornness gets the best of him in certain situations.

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02-25-2013, 10:12 AM
  #25
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I think this is a great thread. Way more real discussion going on in here than just yelling about the coach and the system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Because most of our forwards are below average puck carriers.



I think this comes down to what I've been saying the biggest problem for this team is right now: lack of good puck carriers. When no one can take the puck and go with it you can try to avoid having to do that with long passes. As for standing around again it's because no one wants to carry the puck for any real time. The problem isn't "the system" it's that these guys force us to have to play this way. And even then, last year showed this can work. But in order for it to work everyone has to have an intense work ethic and commitment and it has seemed to be lacking this year. We can't afford to be at anything less than 100%, Torts has said that all the time. We're no good enough not to, Torts said that to the media all the time last year, I think some guys have it in their heads that that isn't the case this year.
Personally, I agree with this post, the bolded especially. The system isn't entirely problematic - it's that this year's team doesn't have the balls to the wall attitude necessary to have success playing this way. That's what's holding them back. Maybe its high turnover and a lack of camp, maybe its coming in with huge expectations, but the mindset isn't right yet.

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