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HNIC shows new potential alignment with 16 teams in "east" groupings

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02-25-2013, 07:50 AM
  #351
RattleYourSabre
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You guys know FAR more about this stuff than I do. But here's something I would consider:

I would almost change things up even more.

Here's what I would do:

Northeast: Boston, Buffalo, Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, Islanders, Rangers, New Jersey
Atlantic: Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Washington, Carolina, Tampa, Florida, Nashville
Central: Winnipeg, Chicago, Minnesota, Dallas, St. Louis, Colorado, Detroit, Columbus
Pacific: Anaheim, San Jose, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver

Northeast has far less travel, but they need to crossover into Canada. Atlantic has a bit more travel, but its entirely US based within the same time zone except for Nashville, which is -1 hour. Central/Pacific would have rougher travel, going north to south and across the border, but the teams are pretty close in time zones. You lose a few rivalries, but you preserve a few as well, and do to the geographical set up, you create natural rivalries.

From there, I'd do the playoff format as follows:

Round 1: Conference Qualifier(1v4, 2v3 within YOUR regular season grouping)
Round 2: Conference Championship (It's NO longer decided in the regular season, you win a conference title in the playoffs)

That brings you to the "final four". From that point, reseed based on regular season record.

Round 3: Conference Champions: Semi Finals: 1v4, 2v3 of the teams remaining.
Round 4: Stanley Cup

One of the complaints that I've seen is that the teams in seven team divisions have an easier chance to make the playoffs and in turn win the Cup. So if that's an issue you do this:

-Conference Champions decided in regular season
-Top three in each conference make the playoffs (seedings to be determined)
-Four wild card teams can make the playoffs. It's the best four point totals in the league who didn't finish in the top three in their conference.
-Of the wild card teams, you insert one into each of the conferences brackets. Whichever conference with the highest point total with the three teams that made the playoffs gets the last wild card team. The team with the lowest point total gets the top wild card team.
-Follow through with the same format as above, except renaming the rounds.

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02-25-2013, 08:04 AM
  #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RattleYourSabre View Post
You guys know FAR more about this stuff than I do. But here's something I would consider:

I would almost change things up even more.

Here's what I would do:

Northeast: Boston, Buffalo, Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, Islanders, Rangers, New Jersey
Atlantic: Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Washington, Carolina, Tampa, Florida, Nashville
Central: Winnipeg, Chicago, Minnesota, Dallas, St. Louis, Colorado, Detroit, Columbus
Pacific: Anaheim, San Jose, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver

Northeast has far less travel, but they need to crossover into Canada. Atlantic has a bit more travel, but its entirely US based within the same time zone except for Nashville, which is -1 hour. Central/Pacific would have rougher travel, going north to south and across the border, but the teams are pretty close in time zones. You lose a few rivalries, but you preserve a few as well, and do to the geographical set up, you create natural rivalries.

From there, I'd do the playoff format as follows:

Round 1: Conference Qualifier(1v4, 2v3 within YOUR regular season grouping)
Round 2: Conference Championship (It's NO longer decided in the regular season, you win a conference title in the playoffs)

That brings you to the "final four". From that point, reseed based on regular season record.

Round 3: Conference Champions: Semi Finals: 1v4, 2v3 of the teams remaining.
Round 4: Stanley Cup

One of the complaints that I've seen is that the teams in seven team divisions have an easier chance to make the playoffs and in turn win the Cup. So if that's an issue you do this:

-Conference Champions decided in regular season
-Top three in each conference make the playoffs (seedings to be determined)
-Four wild card teams can make the playoffs. It's the best four point totals in the league who didn't finish in the top three in their conference.
-Of the wild card teams, you insert one into each of the conferences brackets. Whichever conference with the highest point total with the three teams that made the playoffs gets the last wild card team. The team with the lowest point total gets the top wild card team.
-Follow through with the same format as above, except renaming the rounds.
Business wise Tampa and Florida can't be in another division/conference than Mtl, Que, Ottawa and Toronto. Too many snowbirds are padding both team revenue. If they lose that both team will likely bleed to death faster than revenue sharing could keep them afloat.

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02-25-2013, 08:07 AM
  #353
RattleYourSabre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madhi19 View Post
Business wise Tampa and Florida can't be in another division/conference than Mtl, Que, Ottawa and Toronto. Too many snowbirds are padding both team revenue. If they lose that both team will likely bleed to death faster than revenue sharing could keep them afloat.
I absolutely don't doubt your knowledge here, but do you have the figures handy for that? I'd like to see how much of a difference that makes for them. I'd guess that you're likely on the money as its not a point I considered. I'd just like to see the data. Hope you don't take that as me doubting you, it's not intended to!

Also, assuming you're right, you could do something like this... Although this looks MUCH sloppier:

I: Boston, Buffalo, Islanders, Rangers, New Jersey, Philly, Pittsburgh, Washington
II: Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, Carolina, Tampa, Florida, Nashville
III: Winnipeg, Chicago, Minnesota, Dallas, St. Louis, Colorado, Detroit, Columbus
IV: Anaheim, San Jose, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver

As a Sabre fan, I can tell you there would be some upset Toronto fans/Buffalo fans who like to go over the border to watch their teams play. But it's an option.

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02-25-2013, 08:20 AM
  #354
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the only way I can see this working is to expand to Seattle and Quebec.

2 16 team conferences, 4 8 team divisions.

Detroit moves East, Winnipeg moves west.

Eastern Conference
North East Div. - DET-PIT-BUF-QUE-OTT-TOR-BOS-MON
Atlantic Div. - NYR-NJD-NYI-PHI-CAR-WAS-TAM-FLA

Western Conference
Pacific Div - VAN-EDM-CAL-ANA-LAK-SJS-PHO-SEA
Heartland Div. - MIN-WIN-NAS-DAL-CHI-STL-CLB-COL

Natural rivalries remain intact. Travel for the western divisions, I believe, would be reduced.

And I have to add.

top 4 teams in each division make the PO's, 1 plays 4, 2 plays 3.

Bring back Division Banners, Conference Banners. Bring back having to win 2 rounds of playoffs to actually WIN your division.

Bring back coming first in your division only give you home ice in the first 2 rounds

You want legit rivalries back? Divisional Heavy scheduled and Div. Playoffs is how you do it.

Also, for All-Star weekend. Make it mean something. Skills competition on Friday night. then:

Each division gets an all star team. East plays East, West Plays West on Saturday, winners play each other on Sunday. Winning conference gets home ice in the finals.

Similar to what Baseball does with their all-star game, but this makes it more interesting.
I agree with everything you said until you brought up the all-star game. Dumbest thing MLB did was to link the all-star game to home-field in the WS.

However, I can't see them bouncing Columbus back to the West.

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02-25-2013, 08:20 AM
  #355
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So here's another option, which is slightly sloppy, but might account for some issues:

I: Boston, Buffalo, New Jersey, Philly, Pittsburgh, Washington, Toronto, Montreal
II: Islanders, Rangers, Ottawa, Carolina, Tampa, Florida, Columbus, Detroit
III: Winnipeg, Chicago, Minnesota, Dallas, St. Louis, Colorado, Nashville
IV: Anaheim, San Jose, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver

Islanders, Rangers, Senators, Red Wings, Blue Jackets to division 2. Keeps some of the more northern states in a division with the Florida teams. Carolina would benefit as well.

Nashville to a more central/mountain time zone, keeping most games between 6:30-7:30 locally than the previous location I had them in.

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02-25-2013, 08:20 AM
  #356
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When and not if the NHL decides to move the Pheonix franchise by this new realignment its to Seattle and not Quebec or even Toronto. Then I think the leauge will be done with franchise movement and if they decide to have expantion it will be to Quebec and Portland. The only way Toronto gets another franchise it will be if MLSE controls the building.

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02-25-2013, 08:30 AM
  #357
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
I agree with everything you said until you brought up the all-star game. Dumbest thing MLB did was to link the all-star game to home-field in the WS.

However, I can't see them bouncing Columbus back to the West.
In order for these games to have any level of interest from anyone other than those in attendance, you have to give these guys something to play for.

10-9 games where there is NO Defence and NO Hitting does not protray an accurate description of the game we all know and love.

These guys are all stars and there will be scoring. But man, they need some motivation to get them to play the game the way it's supposed to be played.

dangle a carrot. No better carrot than home ice in the finals.

And for the record, no team has won or lost the WS in Baseball because they didn't have home field. It's been rendered a non-issue really which is why no one had cried about it.

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02-25-2013, 08:34 AM
  #358
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ANNNND one last one, for now:

I: Boston, Buffalo, New Jersey, Philly, Pittsburgh, Washington, Toronto, Montreal
II: Islanders, Rangers, Ottawa, Carolina, Tampa, Florida, Columbus,
III: Winnipeg, Chicago, Minnesota, Dallas, St. Louis, Nashville, Detroit
IV: Anaheim, San Jose, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Edmonton, Vancouver, Colorado, Calgary

That's almost entirely by time zone, aside from Detroit, who is the furthest west team from the eastern time zone divisions (I and II).

This is harder than it looks. Hahaha

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02-25-2013, 08:41 AM
  #359
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
In order for these games to have any level of interest from anyone other than those in attendance, you have to give these guys something to play for.

10-9 games where there is NO Defence and NO Hitting does not protray an accurate description of the game we all know and love.

These guys are all stars and there will be scoring. But man, they need some motivation to get them to play the game the way it's supposed to be played.

dangle a carrot. No better carrot than home ice in the finals.

And for the record, no team has won or lost the WS in Baseball because they didn't have home field. It's been rendered a non-issue really which is why no one had cried about it.
I believe the first year was 2002. AL won, Angels had home field over SF. Angels won in 7, home team won all games and I believe the Angels won games 6 and 7 in their last at-bat. I'd rather just see them scrap the game altogether. I watched when I was a kid. Watched when it was NA vs the World because it was different, but can't remember the last time I watched since then. Last thing I would want to see is one of the Rangers get hurt in an all-star game because they were playing balls to the wall and took a puck off the face or ankle or got boarded or sustained a concussion.

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02-25-2013, 09:26 AM
  #360
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I personally suspect the Detroit move to Conference II is temporary until Quebec gets their team, at which point they move back to Conference III with Chicago et al, and Quebec slides into Conference II.

Having the two 'less travel' conferences have 8 teams kind of responds to the NHLPAs concern about the fairness of the playoff structure, since the teams with less travel have bigger conferences.

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02-25-2013, 09:32 AM
  #361
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I personally suspect the Detroit move to Conference II is temporary until Quebec gets their team, at which point they move back to Conference III with Chicago et al, and Quebec slides into Conference II.
Why would Detroit agree to that? Why would Detroit not just stay in the central group if a move east was temporary? What does Detroit gain from that? A year or two of more 7pm start times, only to go back to more 8pm start times? If Detroit ends up moving, they're not going back.

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02-25-2013, 09:34 AM
  #362
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Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
I personally suspect the Detroit move to Conference II is temporary until Quebec gets their team, at which point they move back to Conference III with Chicago et al, and Quebec slides into Conference II.

Having the two 'less travel' conferences have 8 teams kind of responds to the NHLPAs concern about the fairness of the playoff structure, since the teams with less travel have bigger conferences.
yeah "Here Detroit, you get to play in the East for one year, but then you're going back West, so ya know, don't get too comfortable."

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02-25-2013, 09:36 AM
  #363
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Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
Why would Detroit agree to that? Why would Detroit not just stay in the central group if a move east was temporary? What does Detroit gain from that? A year or two of more 7pm start times, only to go back to more 8pm start times? If Detroit ends up moving, they're not going back.
I think Detroit would prefer to be in Conference III. I think they are being a good soldier for the NHL playing in Conference II to placate the NHLPA's concern about the East having the small conferences. Detroit's issue with the West aren't the CTZ teams, it's all the games on the Pacific coast.

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02-25-2013, 09:37 AM
  #364
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16 pages of thread on a "potential" realignment.

You can't say people here don't have passion..

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02-25-2013, 09:37 AM
  #365
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yeah "Here Detroit, you get to play in the East for one year, but then you're going back West, so ya know, don't get too comfortable."
They aren't going 'West', it would be Conference III, which is a Midwest conference. There is no difference between II and III with the number of trips to IV teams.

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02-25-2013, 09:40 AM
  #366
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Assuming the NHL does it right, and doesn't always match up I v II and III v IV in the semifinals (instead doing it randomly at the draft, or make the top seed vs 4th seed the Wales series, and the 2 seed v 3 seed the Campbell), there is not much difference to Detroit between II and III. II probably has almost as much travel due to more border crossings and the FL teams.

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02-25-2013, 09:41 AM
  #367
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I feel that until there are 32 (or 28) teams in the league they shouldn't even consider 4 divisions. An uneven number in each is ridiculous.

Winnipeg to NW. Minnesota to central. Nashville to SE. Or just rework 6 divisions into more timezone friendly terms.

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02-25-2013, 09:43 AM
  #368
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Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
Why would Detroit agree to that? Why would Detroit not just stay in the central group if a move east was temporary? What does Detroit gain from that? A year or two of more 7pm start times, only to go back to more 8pm start times? If Detroit ends up moving, they're not going back.
I agree with this. And I think most of the teeth-gnashing about Detroit leaving the Central are from fans, not ownership.

If rivalries are lost, new ones will be created....Sure, right now the Red Wings are a big draw for Nashville and St Louis, but I'm old enough to remember when they sucked and weren't a draw at all (back in 70's and 80's). These things are cyclical.

Right now, I think Chicago is a bigger draw then the Red Wings are anyways.

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02-25-2013, 09:43 AM
  #369
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I feel that until there are 32 (or 28) teams in the league they shouldn't even consider 4 divisions. An uneven number in each is ridiculous.

Winnipeg to NW. Minnesota to central. Nashville to SE. Or just rework 6 divisions into more timezone friendly terms.
That doesn't solve DET or DAL major issues though. They've been waiting long enough -- if this can't happen until they get to 32 teams, nothing should happen. WPG shouldn't get priority over DET/DAL in getting their alignment issues fixed.

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02-25-2013, 09:46 AM
  #370
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They aren't going 'West', it would be Conference III, which is a Midwest conference. There is no difference between II and III with the number of trips to IV teams.
then what's the point of moving them in the first place?

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02-25-2013, 09:53 AM
  #371
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then what's the point of moving them in the first place?
NHLPA complained it was unfair to have 8 teams in some divisions and 7 in others, due to the 4/8 vs 4/7 playoffs chances. By moving the 8 teams to the 2 groups that have much less in conference travel, it may be enough to get the NHLPA to agree to it for the short term, with a wink and nod agreement that the two empty spots will get filled.

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02-25-2013, 09:58 AM
  #372
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NHLPA complained it was unfair to have 8 teams in some divisions and 7 in others, due to the 4/8 vs 4/7 playoffs chances. By moving the 8 teams to the 2 groups that have much less in conference travel, it may be enough to get the NHLPA to agree to it for the short term, with a wink and nod agreement that the two empty spots will get filled.
How much travel was saved by moving Detroit and Columbus from the last proposal? Not much. Not sure why that would satisfy the issues the PA had with the proposal.

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02-25-2013, 10:03 AM
  #373
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Business wise Tampa and Florida can't be in another division/conference than Mtl, Que, Ottawa and Toronto. Too many snowbirds are padding both team revenue. If they lose that both team will likely bleed to death faster than revenue sharing could keep them afloat.
Agreed, which is why I think HNIC's groupings make some sense.

Tampa and Florida get six markets that produce droves of snowbirds who would want to see their teams play.

If they change that, you're right that Tampa and Florida bleed to death, which, of course, would make moving them to Quebec and Toronto2 easier for potential buyers. I couldn't see either of them surviving in that case.

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02-25-2013, 10:11 AM
  #374
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How much travel was saved by moving Detroit and Columbus from the last proposal? Not much. Not sure why that would satisfy the issues the PA had with the proposal.
Last proposal had 8 teams in Conference III and IV, which span from VAN to PHX and from WPG to DAL ... this one has the 8 teams in the 2 conferences that are all in the ETZ.

It's not a huge concession, but one that maybe was enough for the NHLPA, especially if it's only for 1-2 seasons until expansion/relocation happens.

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02-25-2013, 10:22 AM
  #375
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I'm VERY late to this discussion, so forgive me if the answers to these questions are obvious but:

Assuming the NHL adopts the 4 Conference setup in the OP,

1. Do we know what playoff system will be? Top four from each conference?
2. Do we know what the regular season schedule breakdown will be?
1. Seems to have a provision for a "playin" to get top 4 in "conference", but I haven't seen any tweets/articles with specifics.

2. Again, haven't seen any details, but I think it will be two games against all other conferences minimum, or there will be some teams that will vote against alignment.

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