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Ryan O'Reilly Headed to Offer Sheet or Trade (Part 4)

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Old
02-25-2013, 11:06 AM
  #326
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Originally Posted by Zhamnov10 View Post
What if we replace Buff with Enstrom?
If it's Enstrom and you take off our pick, that's something actually worth thinking about. But even if we wait til the offseason would the Jets really even think about trading Enstrom? He's your only top pairing lefty and a great compliment to both Buff and Bogo.

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02-25-2013, 11:10 AM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Zhamnov10 View Post
To Col
Buff + Little + 2013 2nd

To Wpg
O'Reilly + Siemens + 2013 1st
wow you actualy beat toronto fans whit that

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02-25-2013, 11:13 AM
  #328
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
If it's Enstrom and you take off our pick, that's something actually worth thinking about. But even if we wait til the offseason would the Jets really even think about trading Enstrom? He's your only top pairing lefty and a great compliment to both Buff and Bogo.
Really? It would be worth thinking about getting a top pairing LHD and a good #2C for an unsigned player and a prospect? Go figure.

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02-25-2013, 11:14 AM
  #329
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Not a chance I would give up that much for O' Reilly.

Byfuglien who scored 53 points in 66 games last year while not being even near as bad defensively as people claim and is miles better defensively this year while currently being paired with waiver wire pick up Grant Clitsome? Do people even watch hockey?

And we want to give all that up for a guy who had one nice scoring season along with his defensive prowess and now wants 5 million per? No thanks.

Little and a pick or a midlevel prospect I would do but if that price is any more than that considering the salary demands I would pass.

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02-25-2013, 11:15 AM
  #330
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Originally Posted by veganhunter View Post
Not a chance I would give up that much for O' Reilly.

Byfuglien who scored 53 points in 66 games last year while not being even near as bad defensively as people claim and is miles better defensively this year while currently being paired with waiver wire pick up Grant Clitsome? Do people even watch hockey?

And we want to give all that up for a guy who had one nice scoring season along with his defensive prowess and now wants 5 million per? No thanks.

Little and a pick or a midlevel prospect I would do but if that price is any more than that considering the salary demands I would pass.
I'm with you on that.

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02-25-2013, 11:15 AM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Jeff_Dyck_#1 View Post
To Col
Buff + Little + Wheeler

To Wpg
O'Reilly + Siemens + 2013 2nd
So the Jets give up 2/3 of their top line and one of their top 2 dmen for a guy a guy who had one great year, a prospect, and a pick.

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02-25-2013, 11:18 AM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
Been said by folks that have no clue what ROR is thinking.

What i see here is col fans in denial of their worst fear and thats ROR signing a big offer sheet,like a 27.5m over 5 years.

They don't want the picks as compensation and they would rather not have ROR on the roster for say 5.5m.

And for those that think ROR is going to sit back and watch this entire season get flushed down the toilet, well good luck with that kiddos.
A GM would have to be nuts to give ROR $5.5m for 5 years...He's had 1 good year. Shouldn't get more than $4m per for 3-4 years.

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02-25-2013, 11:29 AM
  #333
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Originally Posted by veganhunter View Post
Not a chance I would give up that much for O' Reilly.

Byfuglien who scored 53 points in 66 games last year while not being even near as bad defensively as people claim and is miles better defensively this year while currently being paired with waiver wire pick up Grant Clitsome? Do people even watch hockey?

And we want to give all that up for a guy who had one nice scoring season along with his defensive prowess and now wants 5 million per? No thanks.

Little and a pick or a midlevel prospect I would do but if that price is any more than that considering the salary demands I would pass.
The Avs have little need for a RHD who can play top pairing minutes, since they have EJ. Siemens could potentially fill the top pairing LHD need, so giving him up is an issue unless a more proven LHD is coming back. And I'm not really interested in Buff's cap hit for the 2nd pairing.

Regardless of RORs salary demands, he's a valuable asset. His negotiating tactics leave something to be desired, but he's a very solid 2C with 1C potential. Future Selke finalist/winner without a doubt.

And that 1st round pick is looking like it will be top 5. In this draft, that pick is golden.

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02-25-2013, 11:30 AM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
I think there has to be a resolution to this in the next week or so if he's going to be traded. The Avs would be dumb to risk an early-March offer sheet. If they matched, they couldn't trade him for a minimum of one year, but one year from early-March will be after the 2013-14 trade deadline. If they matched, it'd be the most awkward situation we've seen in a long while.
Why would it be awkward? If he were to sign an offer sheet, he obviously would be fine with playing for Avs.

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02-25-2013, 11:33 AM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Romang67 View Post
Really? It would be worth thinking about getting a top pairing LHD and a good #2C for an unsigned player and a prospect? Go figure.
I figured that phrasing would draw some ire, but the original offer is a trade the team doesn't even have to think about before rejecting. Which is why I phrased it like that. Enstrom's awesome and would be a great guy to get for ROR, even if I disagree with you on Little, who I see as more of capable #3C/2nd line winger, but the original offer is really bad for the Avs, and ROR, Siemens and our first is too heavy a price to pay, even if it's Enstrom instead of Buff.

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02-25-2013, 11:33 AM
  #336
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ror has not even hit his prime...Avs are demanding too much at the moment,

They will have to move him by trade deadline because GM'S would rather look at Perry and Getzlav

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02-25-2013, 11:36 AM
  #337
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Originally Posted by spartachris View Post
ror has not even hit his prime...Avs are demanding too much at the moment,

They will have to move him by trade deadline because GM'S would rather look at Perry and Getzlav
No they can easily wait it out. The draft and after Perry and Getz get signed would also be good times to trade ROR. That said, I think he gets traded weeks before the trade deadline.

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02-25-2013, 11:37 AM
  #338
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Originally Posted by Joe Sakic View Post
ROR for Little, 2nd 2013?
Closer to what some Jets fans have been thinking, but it's not really what a lot of Avs fans want.

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02-25-2013, 11:41 AM
  #339
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Originally Posted by GaryU View Post
A GM would have to be nuts to give ROR $5.5m for 5 years...He's had 1 good year. Shouldn't get more than $4m per for 3-4 years.
Exactly, I don't think any GM is stupid enough to pay more that $4.5m yr and if it is that much then Colorado would match. There is a reason that there hasn't been an offer sheet.

I don't think Colorado would match a $5.5m a year offer sheet, and I think ROR would sign it. I just don't think any GM would pay him that kind of money at this time. Matt Duchene is making 3.5M as a first line center. Subban is making about $3.4m per year as a top pairing D-man, and people want to offer sheet ROR for $5.5m?

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02-25-2013, 11:43 AM
  #340
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Originally Posted by IWantSakicAsMyGM View Post
The Avs have little need for a RHD who can play top pairing minutes, since they have EJ. Siemens could potentially fill the top pairing LHD need, so giving him up is an issue unless a more proven LHD is coming back. And I'm not really interested in Buff's cap hit for the 2nd pairing.

Regardless of RORs salary demands, he's a valuable asset. His negotiating tactics leave something to be desired, but he's a very solid 2C with 1C potential. Future Selke finalist/winner without a doubt.

And that 1st round pick is looking like it will be top 5. In this draft, that pick is golden.
Good Post. From a hockey perspective adding another #1 RD with EJ doesn't look like a good move.

I think the OP's offer is good from a value perspective because I think the difference between Buff and Siemens is greater than the difference between ROR and Little to warrant a 1st coming from the Avs.

But I can understand the deal not making sense to the Avs because of positional need, and the desire to hold on to the draft pick.


Last edited by Huffer: 02-25-2013 at 11:48 AM.
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02-25-2013, 11:44 AM
  #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IWantSakicAsMyGM View Post
The Avs have little need for a RHD who can play top pairing minutes, since they have EJ. Siemens could potentially fill the top pairing LHD need, so giving him up is an issue unless a more proven LHD is coming back. And I'm not really interested in Buff's cap hit for the 2nd pairing.

Regardless of RORs salary demands, he's a valuable asset. His negotiating tactics leave something to be desired, but he's a very solid 2C with 1C potential. Future Selke finalist/winner without a doubt.

And that 1st round pick is looking like it will be top 5. In this draft, that pick is golden.
Colorado doesn't have a huge need for Byfuglien that is certainly understandable.

I agree ROR is a good player and if he can keep the same offensive pace or pick it up a bit it would go a ways in justifying that salary but if he doesn't he is not even close to worth that. That is obviously the dilemma in Denver they don't believe he is currently worth that price so I don't think other teams are going to be clamouring to give up assets to sign him at that price either. If the Avs don't want to sign him as a 5 million a year player they are going to have a hard time trading him as one IMO.

If the first pick does end up in the top 5 then your right it would not look very smart if they traded it. It would make no sense to add to ROR to trade him when they can just lower their asking price for him.

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02-25-2013, 11:45 AM
  #342
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Duchene has a ****y agent and as for Subban... He has never even had a 40 point season. But I agree with waiting him out...... Avs have all the advantage

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02-25-2013, 11:47 AM
  #343
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Who's he comparable too? I havent seen a single goal on NHL.COM video that makes me thing he's all that special. Who does he compare too>?
In my humble opinion his complete upside is Joe Pavelski. Which is nothing bad obviously, but it's not exactly Joe Thornton which some people in this thread would make you believe.

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02-25-2013, 11:50 AM
  #344
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Originally Posted by veganhunter View Post
Colorado doesn't have a huge need for Byfuglien that is certainly understandable.

I agree ROR is a good player and if he can keep the same offensive pace or pick it up a bit it would go a ways in justifying that salary but if he doesn't he is not even close to worth that. That is obviously the dilemma in Denver they don't believe he is currently worth that price so I don't think other teams are going to be clamouring to give up assets to sign him at that price either. If the Avs don't want to sign him as a 5 million a year player they are going to have a hard time trading him as one IMO.

If the first pick does end up in the top 5 then your right it would not look very smart if they traded it. It would make no sense to add to ROR to trade him when they can just lower their asking price for him.
The reason Avs don't want to sign him for 5mil is the fact that it would set a precedent for future RFA's and a pretty high bar for the next contracts for EJ, Duchene and Varlamov, not because they don't think he's worth that money, Pierre Lacroix is much like Sather when it comes to contracts for players coming off their ELC's. Anyone who looks at this situation and thinks about it for more than a couple of minutes will easily understand that.

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02-25-2013, 11:52 AM
  #345
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Originally Posted by veganhunter View Post
Colorado doesn't have a huge need for Byfuglien that is certainly understandable.

I agree ROR is a good player and if he can keep the same offensive pace or pick it up a bit it would go a ways in justifying that salary but if he doesn't he is not even close to worth that. That is obviously the dilemma in Denver they don't believe he is currently worth that price so I don't think other teams are going to be clamouring to give up assets to sign him at that price either. If the Avs don't want to sign him as a 5 million a year player they are going to have a hard time trading him as one IMO.

If the first pick does end up in the top 5 then your right it would not look very smart if they traded it. It would make no sense to add to ROR to trade him when they can just lower their asking price for him.
I think it's more a philosophical difference in how organizations handle second contracts than anything. Avs believe a player should have a short bridge deal after his ELC.

Some others, including Winnipeg, don't mind guys backing up the money truck and get a long second contract when they come off their ELC.

I don't get the feeling Avs view O'Reilly as less valuable than any other team does. They just insist on young players buying in and signing bridge deals.

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02-25-2013, 11:55 AM
  #346
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I don't see how the Avs have an advantage by waiting, the longer you wait, you're going to get less and less in a package imo. Why would a GM pay more in a year from now then they would now?

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02-25-2013, 11:56 AM
  #347
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In my humble opinion his complete upside is Joe Pavelski. Which is nothing bad obviously, but it's not exactly Joe Thornton which some people in this thread would make you believe.
He's nothing like Pavelski and there's not a single (sane) person who called him the next Joe Thornton. There's no better way to describe him than to call him a clone of Patrice Bergeron.

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02-25-2013, 11:58 AM
  #348
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The reason Avs don't want to sign him for 5mil is the fact that it would set a precedent for future RFA's and a pretty high bar for the next contracts for EJ, Duchene and Varlamov, not because they don't think he's worth that money, Pierre Lacroix is much like Sather when it comes to contracts for players coming off their ELC's. Anyone who looks at this situation and thinks about it for more than a couple of minutes will easily understand that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I think it's more a philosophical difference in how organizations handle second contracts than anything. Avs believe a player should have a short bridge deal after his ELC.

Some others, including Winnipeg, don't mind guys backing up the money truck and get a long second contract when they come off their ELC.

I don't get the feeling Avs view O'Reilly as less valuable than any other team does. They just insist on young players buying in and signing bridge deals.
Fair point the Avs very well may be trying to use the system the way it was intended and give him a bridge contract. That is a piece I left out in my reasoning.

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02-25-2013, 12:02 PM
  #349
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I don't see how the Avs have an advantage by waiting, the longer you wait, you're going to get less and less in a package imo. Why would a GM pay more in a year from now then they would now?
Lol, how will waiting for the best package somehow get less and less as time goes by? He's only 22 years old....

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02-25-2013, 12:02 PM
  #350
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I think it's more a philosophical difference in how organizations handle second contracts than anything. Avs believe a player should have a short bridge deal after his ELC.

Some others, including Winnipeg, don't mind guys backing up the money truck and get a long second contract when they come off their ELC.

I don't get the feeling Avs view O'Reilly as less valuable than any other team does. They just insist on young players buying in and signing bridge deals.
I for one am happy the Avs are holding the line. That's better for all the teams.

As for Winnipeg they did give Kane a long term deal after his ELC, but they gave Bogo a bridge the year earlier. So we're 1 and 1 so far I guess. Burmistrov is up next and I would guess he gets a bridge deal as well. But you never know.

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