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Old
02-25-2013, 09:07 AM
  #701
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Originally Posted by Faidh ar Rud Eigin View Post
Look at how players players play once they get there. In any sport, unless you get a player who thrives on pressure they often look worse there.
I can't comment on other sports, but this is just selective memory in hockey's case.

For every Gomez or Richards that regresses after going to NYC, you have a Girardi, Prust, Boyle, or Stralman who excels and revitalizes their careers. In fact I'd say the biggest difference is age, and that happens in every market. Free agents regress all the time after signing big contracts with new teams - partly because their best years are behind them, partly because of system/environment changes. There's a million examples of this every year, not just in NYC.

That's not even mentioning the players who NY drafted or developed who go on to excel in the "pressure cooker," like Lundqvist, Callahan, Staal, etc. By the way, the idea that NYC is a pressure-filled city for hockey players is somewhat ridiculous as well. Sure there's a passionate fanbase and the stands are filled every night, but the amount of media coverage Rangers get compared to the Yankees, Giants, Knicks etc is miniscule. The players have even said they enjoy being able to blend into the crowd here in New York. In a city of 8 million, there's enough fans to make a passionate fanbase; but percentage of population wise, its not even close to a Canadian market, or even one like Minny/Boston.

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02-25-2013, 09:35 AM
  #702
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^^ To be fair, much different things are expected of the Prusts and Stralmans of the world than of Gomez, Richards, etc.

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02-25-2013, 09:48 AM
  #703
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^^ To be fair, much different things are expected of the Prusts and Stralmans of the world than of Gomez, Richards, etc.
Fair point. But very few big name FAs live up to the contracts they sign. And saying that NYC saps the will out of players ignores the players who are drafted and stay there, like Henrik or Staal.

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02-25-2013, 10:06 AM
  #704
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Someone in the Trade Forum proposed T.J. Brennan (Buffalo) for Tom Wandell.

That seems like an ideal trade for Dallas, but I don't think Wandell would be enough to get it done. Brennan can't break into the lineup for Buffalo, but he's only 23 and was having a PPG season in the AHL during the lockout. He's also a high 2nd round pick (31st overall) for Buffalo.

Speculation was Rome's injury is significant, and Larsen's is obviously sounding like a concussion. It's impossible, I've tried numerous times, to get any information on the AHL injuries, but an extra D can't hurt with 5 injuries on D ... 6 if Daley has a setback.

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02-25-2013, 10:58 AM
  #705
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Actually it sounds like Larsen is fine, but they're keeping him out as a precaution.

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02-25-2013, 11:12 AM
  #706
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found a picture of Larsen after crashing into the boards.

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02-25-2013, 11:44 AM
  #707
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Consider the source but interesting nonetheless
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklun...6#.USuin4GQkVA

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02-25-2013, 11:58 AM
  #708
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Originally Posted by Tattoo View Post
Consider the source but interesting nonetheless
http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Eklun...6#.USuin4GQkVA
trading robidas for a good return at teh deadline would make this season a success, imo

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02-25-2013, 12:05 PM
  #709
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
Disagree. His effort resembled Arnott's for the better part of his tenure in Dallas; inconsistent at best.

Btw, I think NY has less of an effect on players than it does attract players who are prone to signing big contracts and following that up with less than stellar effort/bad luck.
I don't know how you can say that. He put up top 5 centre numbers in Dallas. Wasn't always playing at an elite level but he never played at an elite level in New York.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalGodAOD View Post
I can't comment on other sports, but this is just selective memory in hockey's case.

For every Gomez or Richards that regresses after going to NYC, you have a Girardi, Prust, Boyle, or Stralman who excels and revitalizes their careers. In fact I'd say the biggest difference is age, and that happens in every market. Free agents regress all the time after signing big contracts with new teams - partly because their best years are behind them, partly because of system/environment changes. There's a million examples of this every year, not just in NYC.

That's not even mentioning the players who NY drafted or developed who go on to excel in the "pressure cooker," like Lundqvist, Callahan, Staal, etc. By the way, the idea that NYC is a pressure-filled city for hockey players is somewhat ridiculous as well. Sure there's a passionate fanbase and the stands are filled every night, but the amount of media coverage Rangers get compared to the Yankees, Giants, Knicks etc is miniscule. The players have even said they enjoy being able to blend into the crowd here in New York. In a city of 8 million, there's enough fans to make a passionate fanbase; but percentage of population wise, its not even close to a Canadian market, or even one like Minny/Boston.
You have to include other sports when discussing the New York effect on players but I as well don't know much about the other sports. Self-developed players rarely have this problem unless they're weak mentally but look at all the free agent busts. Free agents bust everywhere but its an epidemic with New York sports teams. In every sport

I get the the New York media is on other teams more but the Rangers get their fair share of media attack. In Dallas Richards never had a negative word spoken about him, in New York when the Rangers are brought up it's different. Minnesota is a bigger hockey market but they're similar to Dallas in that they're a positive hockey market, they don't criticize the team often. Teams like New York, Boston, Philly, Toronto and Montreal are negative markets, where the media tends to critize the team often.

I'd take Richards back in Dallas, he's not the 90 point center but he could be a 70 point buy. A top six of Benn - Richards - Jagr , Whitney - Roy - Eriksson is even better then ours now. Benn can stil play center on the penalty kill and if he gets better at faceoffs take them for Richards.

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02-25-2013, 12:17 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by txomisc View Post
trading robidas for a good return at teh deadline would make this season a success, imo
I swear he misses the net by a pretty wide margin with 90% of his shots from the point.

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02-25-2013, 12:49 PM
  #711
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Originally Posted by Tattoo View Post
I swear he misses the net by a pretty wide margin with 90% of his shots from the point.
Dillon and Oleksiak are the only two d-men on this roster who can hit the net.

The rest either shoot it wide or shoot it right into shinpads. The rest are near worthless with point shots, which is a big reason why this team is having to turn to forwards to play the point on the power play.

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02-25-2013, 01:15 PM
  #712
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Originally Posted by MetalGodAOD View Post
Actually it sounds like Larsen is fine, but they're keeping him out as a precaution.
That's good. Where did you see that?

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02-25-2013, 01:29 PM
  #713
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Originally Posted by txomisc View Post
trading robidas for a good return at teh deadline would make this season a success, imo
I feel like I'm being teased again. If Ryder and Robidas go I won't even care about Morrow. Based on this speculation what would we want from any of those teams if they inquired about him? I'm not really familiar with their prospect systems.

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02-25-2013, 01:34 PM
  #714
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Originally Posted by ReaallMunson18 View Post
It'd be awesome if he could still shoot like this:


But now it seems like this is the best we can hope for:
Looking at those videos makes me realize how badly he needs a confidence boost. I don't know what the coaches are doing with him or what's going on with him personally, but it definitely seems mental, and to a severe degree. He's over thinking and he certainly never tries to let it fly like that anymore. Dude needs to get his mojo back somehow, that a 4 month lockout didn't do enough to clear his head is pretty concerning.

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02-25-2013, 01:36 PM
  #715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
Dillon and Oleksiak are the only two d-men on this roster who can hit the net.

The rest either shoot it wide or shoot it right into shinpads. The rest are near worthless with point shots, which is a big reason why this team is having to turn to forwards to play the point on the power play.
Benn hits the net, but he doesn't have a ton of power behind his shot.

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02-25-2013, 01:43 PM
  #716
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Here are shots, missed shots, and blocked shots for Dallas D:

PlayerBkSMsSShots
Alex Goligoski20 2435
Stephane Robidas291614
Brenden Dillon211535
Trevor Daley211422
Jordie Benn18513
Philip Larsen10510
Jamie Oleksiak743
Aaron Rome1236

I sorted based on missed shots ... it was a toss up between that and blocked.

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02-25-2013, 01:50 PM
  #717
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With those numbers, here are the percentages of shots that get on net:

Brenden Dillon: 49%
Alex Goligoski: 44%
Philip Larsen: 40%
Trevor Daley: 39%
Jordie Benn: 36%
Aaron Rome: 29%
Stephane Robidas : 24%
Jamie Oleksiak: 21%

That's pathetic from Robias, and the numbers show people's negative bias for Goligoski are skewing what they see.

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02-25-2013, 01:51 PM
  #718
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
That's good. Where did you see that?
http://starsblog.dallasnews.com/2013...ashville.html/

Quote:
Philip Larsen ran face first into the boards on Saturday. He received a gash on his forehead, but the bigger concern might be a concussion. Larsen was held out of several games last January with concussion-like symptoms. However, he also could be ready in a day or two if he has no symptoms, so the Stars do not want to put him on IR and potentially lose him for seven days.
Sounds like they're in a wait and see approach.

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02-25-2013, 03:07 PM
  #719
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Here are shots, missed shots, and blocked shots for Dallas D:

PlayerBkSMsSShots
Alex Goligoski20 2435
Stephane Robidas291614
Brenden Dillon211535
Trevor Daley211422
Jordie Benn18513
Philip Larsen10510
Jamie Oleksiak743
Aaron Rome1236

I sorted based on missed shots ... it was a toss up between that and blocked.
Blocked shots counts the number of opponent shots that the player blocks. It is a defensive stat. For missed shots, I honestly don't know if it counts shots blocked by opponents or if it solely counts shots that are wide of the net.

Redoing the percentages using shots / (missed shots + shots) =

Benn 72.2%
Dillon 70%
Larsen and Rome 66.6%
Daley 61.1%
Goligoski 59.3%
Robidas 46.7%
Oleksiak 42.9%

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02-25-2013, 03:12 PM
  #720
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I think Goligoski needs to switch back to his CCM helmet.

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02-25-2013, 03:14 PM
  #721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troy McClure View Post
Blocked shots counts the number of opponent shots that the player blocks. It is a defensive stat. For missed shots, I honestly don't know if it counts shots blocked by opponents or if it solely counts shots that are wide of the net.

Redoing the percentages using shots / (missed shots + shots) =

Benn 72.2%
Dillon 70%
Larsen and Rome 66.6%
Daley 61.1%
Goligoski 59.3%
Robidas 46.7%
Oleksiak 42.9%
Oh yeah ... that stat is somewhere then because they have an A/B (attempts blocked) column in the game summary.

EDIT: I can't find it on the main board, but it's tracked in game summaries. Don't have the patience though to go look at each one.

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02-25-2013, 04:32 PM
  #722
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I think Goligoski needs to switch back to his CCM helmet.


I was actually just thinking about that the other day. Maybe this new one is too tight or something.

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02-25-2013, 05:11 PM
  #723
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another consideration for d-men shooting is that it's often the better play to just miss the net rather than risk getting the shot blocked for a break the other way. it's also sometimes the right play to just send it in the low slot area for random tips or deflections. to curate all shot attempts and distinguish between "correct" plays and instances where the guy simply misses an open shot or gets it unnecessarily blocked would be an interesting exercise... but not for me.

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02-25-2013, 05:31 PM
  #724
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hull Fan View Post
I feel like I'm being teased again. If Ryder and Robidas go I won't even care about Morrow. Based on this speculation what would we want from any of those teams if they inquired about him? I'm not really familiar with their prospect systems.
of the teams listed (mtl, nj, pit, ott), a trade with ottawa makes the most sense to me, assuming that they can hang around in the playoff race after all their injuries. spezza started skating again, so it's looking alot more likely than a week ago. ottawa has a lot of young assets, and they'd definitely want some veteran experience on their backend. for sentimental reasons, i'd try and go for local product stefan noesen.

if a deal were to happen, then it'll ultimately probably be a deal involving a draft pick or two, though.

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02-25-2013, 09:12 PM
  #725
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I don't know how you can say that. He put up top 5 centre numbers in Dallas. Wasn't always playing at an elite level but he never played at an elite level in New York.
He had one really good year playing with an up and coming sniper on one wing and one of the game's most well-rounded two-way wingers on the other. His next season was pretty good as well but what about 2008-09? He also played some of the most PP minutes by any player in the league during his most productive years in Dallas.

I imagine his numbers falling in New York has less to do with waning desire than it has to do with the type of team defense his new team demands. As far as desire and consistency, he put up some good numbers in Dallas but his effort was always hit or miss. He got really revved up to play offense though, I'll give you that. He made Ribeiro look like a checking center at times.

Regarding the greater New York sports scene, I'm a fan of the big four sports so feel I can weigh in here. From what I've seen it's not so much that players shrink under the bright lights, though you could say that about a few (especially where the Yankees are concerned). What I've seen is that often New York teams seem to be really concerned about perception of their fanbases and don't want to be seen as the team that isn't pro-active about bringing in attractions to the zoo. They got Richards, the belle of the ball during that summer, but what they really got was a player on the wrong side of 30 with recent injury issues. When the Yankees bring in a guy with a big name who is obviously going to begin his descent from the prime of his career it doesn't mean that guy shrank from the media attention, it means the team bought a player with a name to show off to less-than-knowledgeable fans that they're trying trying trying. When the Yankees bring in a prime Alex Rodriguez they get MVP numbers.

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