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Old
02-24-2013, 07:03 PM
  #451
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Building around Rick Nash offensively and dumping Gaborik and Richards seems like a bad idea, not sure turning the Blueshirts into the Blue Jackets is the best direction.

Shouldn't Tortorella just loosen the offensive reigns a bit now that the Rangers have so much offensive talent? Let those guys do what makes them successful and have the goalie bail you out. Seems like a better idea than grinding yourself down.
yeah i agree with this... dumping and chasing may have worked last year but obviously its not working too well this year.

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02-24-2013, 07:08 PM
  #452
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Yeah, but in fairness didn't the rules just change in the new CBA regarding the recapture aspect of buyouts? I thought they became stricter...so it's only fair if they are going to change the terms that they offer a new buyout option.
Absolutely.

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02-24-2013, 08:09 PM
  #453
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Richards is becoming a tough call.

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02-24-2013, 08:32 PM
  #454
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One thing I am having trouble with is the assumption that Richards is out of shape. Still out of shape after all this game time? Nothing gets you in shape more than that, along with regular conditioning off the ice.

Last night, what I saw pointed far more to being mentally out of shape, than physical. His laziness on the second Montreal goal has nothing to do with skating. He skates fine when he goes for it.

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02-24-2013, 09:34 PM
  #455
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One thing I am having trouble with is the assumption that Richards is out of shape. Still out of shape after all this game time?
Playing ~20 minutes a game, not giving your all on every shift, won't get you in game shape after 17 games...

You have to be ready physically going in to game #1. Instead, he's playing catch-up and it's not easy when you're on the wrong side of 30. I'm not saying he's an old man, because he isn't. But when you age, you need to step up your exercise and diet, and do more strength training. I remember people saying right before he signed here that he takes his training very seriously... it doesn't look that way. The guy should have been on the bike, doing squats, deadlifts, w/e the hell he needed to do, way before the season began.

He did not prepare himself physically for the season, which is evident. He looks especially out of shape.

I just checked his stats, how is he a +1? I would have thought minus for sure. Still doesn't mean he's been anything better than horrendous. Bone-headed turnovers are now a very, very common thing.


Last edited by alves: 02-24-2013 at 09:42 PM.
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02-24-2013, 09:42 PM
  #456
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Playing ~20 minutes a game, not giving your all on every shift, won't get you in game shape after 17 games...

He did not prepare himself physically for the season, which is evident. He looks especially out of shape.
If that's true (I'm not in the room, so it's impossible to really tell), that is very disturbing.

This is a guy who is a veteran and a leader, has a letter on his jersey, and he's being counted on heavily by management and the team. I know he did a ton of charity work after hurricane Sandy and I commend him for it...but was it really that hard to spend a few hours a day in the gym?

I'm hoping for his sake it's some sort of nagging injury or illness.

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02-24-2013, 09:46 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
If that's true (I'm not in the room, so it's impossible to really tell), that is very disturbing.

This is a guy who is a veteran and a leader, has a letter on his jersey, and he's being counted on heavily by management and the team. I know he did a ton of charity work after hurricane Sandy and I commend him for it...but was it really that hard to spend a few hours a day in the gym?

I'm hoping for his sake it's some sort of nagging injury or illness.
There's no way he conditioned himself physically only to perform the way he has. He's slow, albeit, he was also a little "slow" last year, but especially slow this year.

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02-24-2013, 09:46 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by alvesNYR View Post
Playing ~20 minutes a game, not giving your all on every shift, won't get you in game shape after 17 games...

You have to be ready physically going in to game #1. Instead, he's playing catch-up and it's not easy when you're on the wrong side of 30. I'm not saying he's an old man, because he isn't. But when you age, you need to step up your exercise and diet, and do more strength training. I remember people saying right before he signed here that he takes his training very seriously... it doesn't look that way. The guy should have been on the bike, doing squats, deadlifts, w/e the hell he needed to do, way before the season began.

He did not prepare himself physically for the season, which is evident. He looks especially out of shape.
I do not disagree completely. Let's say he is not sufficiently fit. What I am pointing out is not his speed, I am talking about a guy standing there and not moving. That's from the head, nothing to do with being in shape.

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02-24-2013, 09:54 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by alvesNYR View Post
There's no way he conditioned himself physically only to perform the way he has. He's slow, albeit, he was also a little "slow" last year, but especially slow this year.
Well, if that's true, it does explain why the team as a whole looks the way it does. If the guy closest to the coaching staff can basically disrespect them (and the team) so easily, it's hard for anyone else to tow the line...or stand up for each other.

Good veteran leadership can save a team, while poor leadership can sink it in a hurry.

That's if the speculation about his physical condition is accurate.

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02-24-2013, 09:54 PM
  #460
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realistically gaborik is still a 40 goal scorer. 20 games isn't a big enough sample size to decide otherwise. he has always been a streaky guy. he's under his numbers this season, but who on this team isn't...? hell, clarkson is top 10 goals scored right now

realistically nash can hit 40 with this team--right now i see him as a mid-to-high 30s guy when healthy. you can't tell me nash isn't creating enough opportunities when he is on the ice to hit 40 here in 82.

realistically richards was one of the best puck movers in the game when he was on, and when he is off he doesn't come close. richards missing camp royally ****ed us imo. tort's management of camp also did not help.

nash and gaborik together and healthy on this team can net 80 in an 82 no problem imo, but for that to happen richards has to be the guy that we saw at the end of last season. he has to be a threat on the ice. that's our problem right now, and the biggest positive is that it's apparently all mental and he can be that guy again.


shortened season--> everything is off. lundqvist is putting up numbers worse than bryzgalov. richards is horrible right now. stepan is our best forward(okay hagelin, but still). people are putting too much weight on this start.
Honestly Nash COULD score 40 one day but career wise he's been around 30-35 and yknow what he';s been better this season in terms of D and carrying the play then some 40 g scorers so I'm fine if he's only a 30-35. But the Richards praise there was def off the mark. ASnd if Gabs shoulder is limiting him then theres no way he could do 40.Gabs looks nothing like the 40g guy we used to see so I think it's fair to say he's not quite there this year but it is a weird lockout shortened year and that is important

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02-25-2013, 02:43 AM
  #461
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Regarding an Amnesty buyout of Richards after this season

Took a look into this
Out of a business standpoint
If - as some people suggest - the Rangers were to buyout Richards after THIS SEASON - then the following consequences would actually take place from a payroll perspective .

Richards would then have played one full and one lockout season for The Rangers. What would then be the cost?

Salary 2011/2012 = $12,000,000 (incl $10,000,000 in signing bonus)
Salary 2013 season (prorated) = ~ $2,341,463
Salary 2013 signing bonus (paid out entirely without deduction for prorated season or escrow) = $8,000,000
TOTAL SALARY COST = $22,341,463

AMNESTY BUYOUT COST = 24,000,000 (two thirds of $36,000,000 remaining money on contract spread out over 14 years)

TOTAL COST FOR BARELY 2 SEASONS OF PLAY BY BRAD RICHARDS = $46,341,463

COST PER SEASON = $23,170,731.50

Now if I were Jim Dolan, Glen Sather or even John Tortorella, this might become a bit unsettling, to say the least. No? This kind of bad ROI is almost unheard of and follow the money trail... yeah - those of you that have been involved in business know how it usually works here.

I therefore think that the amnesty buyout of Richards - if it comes at all - would come after 2013/2014 season

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02-25-2013, 11:34 AM
  #462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Took a look into this
Out of a business standpoint
If - as some people suggest - the Rangers were to buyout Richards after THIS SEASON - then the following consequences would actually take place from a payroll perspective .

Richards would then have played one full and one lockout season for The Rangers. What would then be the cost?

Salary 2011/2012 = $12,000,000 (incl $10,000,000 in signing bonus)
Salary 2013 season (prorated) = ~ $2,341,463
Salary 2013 signing bonus (paid out entirely without deduction for prorated season or escrow) = $8,000,000
TOTAL SALARY COST = $22,341,463

AMNESTY BUYOUT COST = 24,000,000 (two thirds of $36,000,000 remaining money on contract spread out over 14 years)

TOTAL COST FOR BARELY 2 SEASONS OF PLAY BY BRAD RICHARDS = $46,341,463

COST PER SEASON = $23,170,731.50

Now if I were Jim Dolan, Glen Sather or even John Tortorella, this might become a bit unsettling, to say the least. No? This kind of bad ROI is almost unheard of and follow the money trail... yeah - those of you that have been involved in business know how it usually works here.

I therefore think that the amnesty buyout of Richards - if it comes at all - would come after 2013/2014 season
It's a horrible ROI after next season too. I agree that it is much, much more likely that it would happen next year than this, but the per season cost won't be a factor in the decision.

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02-25-2013, 11:44 AM
  #463
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Compliance buyout! Sign Getzlaf!
It just might happen. Both Getz and Perry are bigger and younger than Gabby and Richards, who this year or last, haven't worked together. With Nash jelling with Stepan and Hagelin so well and instead of Richards, kind of makes you wonder why Richards + StarWinger isn't working.

Getzlaf + Perry could be signed for what theses two make. Gabby will surely have trade suitors and Richards could be a compliance buyout. If this doesn't happen, then at the end of the 13-14 season when Richards is 34, I could see the Rangers using their 2nd compliance buyout then.

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02-25-2013, 11:51 AM
  #464
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It just might happen. Both Getz and Perry are bigger and younger than Gabby and Richards, who this year or last, haven't worked together. With Nash jelling with Stepan and Hagelin so well and instead of Richards, kind of makes you wonder why Richards + StarWinger isn't working.

Getzlaf + Perry could be signed for what theses two make. Gabby will surely have trade suitors and Richards could be a compliance buyout. If this doesn't happen, then at the end of the 13-14 season when Richards is 34, I could see the Rangers using their 2nd compliance buyout then.
While a line or PP consisting of Nash, Getzlaf, Perry is erection inducing, it is also unrealistic.

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02-25-2013, 11:53 AM
  #465
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Took a look into this
Out of a business standpoint
If - as some people suggest - the Rangers were to buyout Richards after THIS SEASON - then the following consequences would actually take place from a payroll perspective .

Richards would then have played one full and one lockout season for The Rangers. What would then be the cost?

Salary 2011/2012 = $12,000,000 (incl $10,000,000 in signing bonus)
Salary 2013 season (prorated) = ~ $2,341,463
Salary 2013 signing bonus (paid out entirely without deduction for prorated season or escrow) = $8,000,000
TOTAL SALARY COST = $22,341,463

AMNESTY BUYOUT COST = 24,000,000 (two thirds of $36,000,000 remaining money on contract spread out over 14 years)

TOTAL COST FOR BARELY 2 SEASONS OF PLAY BY BRAD RICHARDS = $46,341,463

COST PER SEASON = $23,170,731.50

Now if I were Jim Dolan, Glen Sather or even John Tortorella, this might become a bit unsettling, to say the least. No? This kind of bad ROI is almost unheard of and follow the money trail... yeah - those of you that have been involved in business know how it usually works here.

I therefore think that the amnesty buyout of Richards - if it comes at all - would come after 2013/2014 season
Yes, though we don't have the entire fiscal perspective. We're only looking at the costs ans comparing that against average player salaries. Is that really the perspective to measure against or is it other factors? Like how many season tickets were sold after the Richards signing was announced? How did it affect advertising sales, etc. Additionally, without Richards do they make the ECF and how much revenue did the team take in doing so? If with Richards the Rangers make at least enough to offset his salary for two years, and the Rangers make a hella lot, then the cost could be justified.

Could there have been a better investment? IMO, there has been no one of Richards' caliber available, though that changes this coming off season. Which then the analysis becomes, how much is Richard's continual cost going to be during the term of his contract vs how much is someone else going to make us during the same time and is there a benefit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
While a line or PP consisting of Nash, Getzlaf, Perry is erection inducing, it is also unrealistic.
Although improbable, it's not out of the realm of possibilities.

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02-25-2013, 11:57 AM
  #466
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Getzlaf and Perry would flat out suck here its inevitable . Build with young two way players and scoring by committee . Finding that and then when ready to compete at a deadline buying a mercenary seems to make more sense .
Would like to try and get ROR , have STEP, ROR , JTM , Lindbergh up the middle next year .
Nash , PYATT , CK , CALLY , Fasth , and whoever we can get by selling a few assets like one of our D men and Gaby and Boyle .
Build a

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02-25-2013, 12:10 PM
  #467
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Amnesty buyout is a no brainer. Richards is not playing like a very good player anymore. He isn't worth the money. Its not hard to make that determination. The Rangers are going to be stuck with that contract if there is no compliance buyout executed. Keeping him and expecting Richards to recapture his glory from the TB and Dallas days is foolish when the player hasn't shown any glimpse of being that player on a consistent basis. Richards isn't going to get better with age. Everyone expected some decline during the nine year contract but not in the 2nd year. The Garden isn't worried about an amnesty buyout.

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02-25-2013, 12:17 PM
  #468
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Amnesty buyout is a no brainer. Richards is not playing like a very good player anymore. He isn't worth the money. Its not hard to make that determination. The Rangers are going to be stuck with that contract if there is no compliance buyout executed. Keeping him and expecting Richards to recapture his glory from the TB and Dallas days is foolish when the player hasn't shown any glimpse of being that player on a consistent basis. Richards isn't going to get better with age. Everyone expected some decline during the nine year contract but not in the 2nd year. The Garden isn't worried about an amnesty buyout.
Zero let me repeat zero chance Richards gets bought out, this is Sather he is a great horse trader and Ricards has value.

Ok what I would do with Richards is trade him this year or next to a team looking for cap.

Phoenix or Nashville would be good choices.

Though some cash into the deal to facilitate a buy out at 35-36 if Richards wants to retire early

A win win for everyone

The last 3years of Richard's are at 1 mil per with a cap hit over 6mil that is value
for a low cap team.

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02-25-2013, 12:21 PM
  #469
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Zero let me repeat zero chance Richards gets bought out, this is Sather he is a great horse trader and Ricards has value.

Ok what I would do with Richards is trade him this year or next to a team looking for cap.

Phoenix or Nashville would be good choices.

Though some cash into the deal to facilitate a buy out at 35-36 if Richards wants to retire early

A win win for everyone

The last 3years of Richard's are at 1 mil per with a cap hit over 6mil that is value
for a low cap team.
Richards has a NMC, you think Nashville and Phoenix appeal to him?

Also if the Rangers trade him, they have the potential of a big cap-benefit recapture charge if he retires early.

While I'm not freaking out about his play (like I didn't when he played like a horse's ass in January and February last season), I think an amnesty buy-out in 2014 is a no-brainer.

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02-25-2013, 12:32 PM
  #470
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Richards has a NMC, you think Nashville and Phoenix appeal to him?

Also if the Rangers trade him, they have the potential of a big cap-benefit recapture charge if he retires early.

While I'm not freaking out about his play (like I didn't when he played like a horse's ass in January and February last season), I think an amnesty buy-out in 2014 is a no-brainer.
I think Phoenix would not only interest him but it would be a great fit as a trading partner for Richards.

Part of the reason you send money is to facilitate a buy out at 36 if Richards wants to retire early. That way Richards would get an extra 2mil for the buy out and the Rangers have no cap hit.

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02-25-2013, 12:36 PM
  #471
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People need to stop thinking like the 2005 CBA is still in play anymore. The league wanted to change the rules with long term contracts and the PA agreed. That's the law of the NHL land right now. How much money is Richards making between years 3-6? Four years. A budget team is paying that? $33M in real dollars.

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02-25-2013, 12:37 PM
  #472
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I think Phoenix would not only interest him but it would be a great fit as a trading partner for Richards.

Part of the reason you send money is to facilitate a buy out at 36 if Richards wants to retire early. That way Richards would get an extra 2mil for the buy out and the Rangers have no cap hit.
If they pay part of his salary, they have to carry part of his cap-hit.

Once they trade Richards, they can't dictate what the other team does with him. It wouldn't be in their interest to buy-out Richards.

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02-25-2013, 12:45 PM
  #473
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People need to stop thinking like the 2005 CBA is still in play anymore. The league wanted to change the rules with long term contracts and the PA agreed. That's the law of the NHL land right now. How much money is Richards making between years 3-6? Four years. A budget team is paying that? $33M in real dollars.
The Thomas trade shows there is value in dead cap space.

Phoenix buys him out instead of letting him retire because for 2 mil they can kill 12 mil + in cap

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02-25-2013, 01:14 PM
  #474
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The Thomas trade shows there is value in dead cap space.

Phoenix buys him out instead of letting him retire because for 2 mil they can kill 12 mil + in cap
Thomas got conditional 2nd round pick on condition that he plays. He will not, so value of dead cap space is 0. If Islanders would need to PAY Thomas - no way they do that trade. And this is temporary 1 year solution for them. I hardly see teams taking on long contracts to pay real dollars just to get to cap floor.

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02-25-2013, 01:19 PM
  #475
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I really loathe Wade Richards and the A on his jersey . Pretty much done with his type of UFA . Over 30 etc.
pretty much done with slats and torts as well

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