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Brian Burke Thread - March 2013

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02-25-2013, 11:35 AM
  #651
donkeyy0
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Burke had a mandate to make the playoffs and accelerate our retool.

The win/loss column therefore is vitally important, just as it was for JFJ who also traded first round picks for instant success like Burke.

A panel of hockey news scouts just ranked us 25 out of the 30 teams in top 10 prospects, FYI, so it's not like we've been doing well in anything under Burke.

Quite the opposite actually.
I don't get that. TMLs latest draft was considered pretty widely to be a win wasn't it? Finn/Reilly have been performing. Leivo/sparks/brown are making the later rounds look like wins as well.

I don't understand thn ranking the team so poorly. Mind you...i don't really follow other teams prospects

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02-25-2013, 11:36 AM
  #652
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He should have won more games. I blame the coach mostly, but whatever. The trade was misguided, however, given the hand he was dealt he wasn't going to make the playoffs. It would have been impossible for any gm (save for maybe dale tallon).

His mistake was thinking the team was any good. The team sucked, but the fault of the sucky team falls entirely on jfj and to an extent fletcher.

Kessel trade was a mistake.

However he simply could not have put up the win totals that people hoped/expected of him.
The Senators have an AHL team that are doing just fine.

So Bryan Murray and Dave Tallon definitely could have gotten us into the playoffs.

I'd suggest other managers but they've been too busy building contending teams each year. They've never had to accelerate a retool.

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02-25-2013, 11:37 AM
  #653
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Originally Posted by donkeyy0 View Post
He should have won more games. I blame the coach mostly, but whatever. The trade was misguided, however, given the hand he was dealt he wasn't going to make the playoffs. It would have been impossible for any gm (save for maybe dale tallon).

His mistake was thinking the team was any good. The team sucked, but the fault of the sucky team falls entirely on jfj and to an extent fletcher.

Kessel trade was a mistake.

However he simply could not have put up the win totals that people hoped/expected of him.

Burke set the expectations and then people such as myself held him to it .

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02-25-2013, 11:38 AM
  #654
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I don't get that. TMLs latest draft was considered pretty widely to be a win wasn't it? Finn/Reilly have been performing. Leivo/sparks/brown are making the later rounds look like wins as well.

I don't understand thn ranking the team so poorly. Mind you...i don't really follow other teams prospects
That would be the problem right there.

Easy to say we have some good prospects.

But as THN is signalling, 29 other teams can say the same thing.

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02-25-2013, 11:42 AM
  #655
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Burke set the expectations and then people such as myself held him to it .
No doubt. The expectations however were unrealistic. He SHOULD have just taken the picks.

If the leafs make the playoffs this year, it'll largely still be his team, and while 1/5 is still a fail...there's progression that he'll likely not get recognition for.

I just think he shouldve been given a little more time. He definitely shot himself in the foot with his big mouth tho

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02-25-2013, 11:45 AM
  #656
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No doubt. The expectations however were unrealistic. He SHOULD have just taken the picks.

If the leafs make the playoffs this year, it'll largely still be his team, and while 1/5 is still a fail...there's progression that he'll likely not get recognition for.

I just think he shouldve been given a little more time. He definitely shot himself in the foot with his big mouth tho
But those were the expectations and he managed and made moves based on that very expectation. Unfortunately he had to sleep in the bed he made for himself.

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02-25-2013, 11:45 AM
  #657
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Originally Posted by donkeyy0 View Post
No doubt. The expectations however were unrealistic. He SHOULD have just taken the picks.

If the leafs make the playoffs this year, it'll largely still be his team, and while 1/5 is still a fail...there's progression that he'll likely not get recognition for.

I just think he shouldve been given a little more time. He definitely shot himself in the foot with his big mouth tho
His big foul mouth!

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02-25-2013, 11:49 AM
  #658
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People are already talking about the great moves nonis has made to make his team a winner...

I can't believe that Fraser mclaren is playing that significant a role in the leafs winning games.

I thought id like burkie, but he made some moves that i just couldn't understand. Starting with his coach

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02-25-2013, 11:52 AM
  #659
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Originally Posted by donkeyy0 View Post
People are already talking about the great moves nonis has made to make his team a winner...

I can't believe that Fraser mclaren is playing that significant a role in the leafs winning games.

I thought id like burkie, but he made some moves that i just couldn't understand. Starting with his coach
Correct. And anyone with two eyes could see that not only did his coaching style suck but he was also negatively impacting a lot of our players and prospects confidence with his sarcastic, contemptuous, vile attitude.

Everyone except our ****ing GM!!!

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02-25-2013, 11:54 AM
  #660
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Correct. And anyone with two eyes could see that not only did his coaching style suck but he was also negatively impacting a lot of our players and prospects confidence with his sarcastic, contemptuous, vile attitude.

Everyone except our ****ing GM!!!
Whatever, pain for gain. Kessel/phaneuf/Reilly/gards/kadri/jvr gonna lead this team to the cup soon.

All burkes guys

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02-25-2013, 11:56 AM
  #661
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Originally Posted by donkeyy0 View Post
People are already talking about the great moves nonis has made to make his team a winner...

I can't believe that Fraser mclaren is playing that significant a role in the leafs winning games.

I thought id like burkie, but he made some moves that i just couldn't understand. Starting with his coach
Yep, definately his most significant blunder.

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02-25-2013, 11:56 AM
  #662
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Whatever, pain for gain. Kessel/phaneuf/Reilly/gards/kadri gonna lead this team to the cup soon.

All burkes guys
Fat chance (not a Burke pun)

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02-25-2013, 12:05 PM
  #663
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Originally Posted by donkeyy0 View Post
People are already talking about the great moves nonis has made to make his team a winner...

I can't believe that Fraser mclaren is playing that significant a role in the leafs winning games.

I thought id like burkie, but he made some moves that i just couldn't understand. Starting with his coach
Burkes biggest problem was he thought he wasn't accountable . He thought he could just keep spinning excuses for his coach and the team and it wouldn't come back and bite him in the ass .

A team can be more than the sum of it's parts and a good coach can get a team to perform above expectations . RC may or may not be a great coach but i believe he has the respect of the players and this goes a long way in determining if a team plays well . Wilson was an arrogant ***** who was in it for himself and all the players knew it . The guys arn't going to go the extra mile for a coach they know will throw them under the bus at the first sign of adversity .

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02-25-2013, 01:38 PM
  #664
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Burkes biggest problem was he thought he wasn't accountable . He thought he could just keep spinning excuses for his coach and the team and it wouldn't come back and bite him in the ass ..
The results always matter in a results oriented business, and a GM is judged by the performance of the team he ices.

All the excuses in the World can't cover up what the NHL standings exposes for all to see. One didn't need to be clairvoyant to recognize the end was near, based on the dismal on-ice performance on an annual basis.

Intangibles like the belief that a GM is building up the prospect pool, only to find out the latest Hockey News (professional NHL scouts blended opinions) place the Leaf organization at 25th overall from the Burke draft/trade years 2009-2012, paint a very different picture of the situation.

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Last edited by Mess: 02-25-2013 at 01:44 PM.
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02-26-2013, 01:33 AM
  #665
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lol we can take perry off the ducks hands for them.

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02-26-2013, 02:14 AM
  #666
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Originally Posted by Al14 View Post
His big foul mouth!


And this is why 99% of the people hate everything Brian Burke ever did. Nothing to do with hockey, it is all about what he said.

He FIXED this franchise. We are further ahead today, right now, with Kessel than we would be with Seguin and Hamilton.

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02-26-2013, 02:16 AM
  #667
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Originally Posted by hotpaws View Post
Burkes biggest problem was he thought he wasn't accountable . He thought he could just keep spinning excuses for his coach and the team and it wouldn't come back and bite him in the ass .

A team can be more than the sum of it's parts and a good coach can get a team to perform above expectations . RC may or may not be a great coach but i believe he has the respect of the players and this goes a long way in determining if a team plays well . Wilson was an arrogant ***** who was in it for himself and all the players knew it . The guys arn't going to go the extra mile for a coach they know will throw them under the bus at the first sign of adversity .
See what I mean?

It's all about what he said.

Not what he did.

What he said.

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02-26-2013, 02:21 AM
  #668
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
The results always matter in a results oriented business, and a GM is judged by the performance of the team he ices.

All the excuses in the World can't cover up what the NHL standings exposes for all to see. One didn't need to be clairvoyant to recognize the end was near, based on the dismal on-ice performance on an annual basis.

Intangibles like the belief that a GM is building up the prospect pool, only to find out the latest Hockey News (professional NHL scouts blended opinions) place the Leaf organization at 25th overall from the Burke draft/trade years 2009-2012, paint a very different picture of the situation.
And the standings in 2013 paint a different picture than the one you are painting here.

We're doing it missing our #1 goalie and 2 of our top 4 wingers.

Is it the coach?

Well Burke hired the guy.

It takes some serious blinders to say the team is not in better shape thanks to Brian Burke.

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02-26-2013, 07:47 AM
  #669
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Burkes biggest problem was he thought he wasn't accountable . He thought he could just keep spinning excuses for his coach and the team and it wouldn't come back and bite him in the ass .
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
See what I mean?

It's all about what he said.

Not what he did.

What he said.
Burke making excuses for the failed product on the ice didn't work for him and you spinning my post won't work for you .

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02-26-2013, 09:30 AM
  #670
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Originally Posted by Mess View Post
The results always matter in a results oriented business, and a GM is judged by the performance of the team he ices.

All the excuses in the World can't cover up what the NHL standings exposes for all to see. One didn't need to be clairvoyant to recognize the end was near, based on the dismal on-ice performance on an annual basis.

Intangibles like the belief that a GM is building up the prospect pool, only to find out the latest Hockey News (professional NHL scouts blended opinions) place the Leaf organization at 25th overall from the Burke draft/trade years 2009-2012, paint a very different picture of the situation.
So results are all that matter yet we should put merit in how THN ranks things? Wouldn't the results those prospects produce be what we place merit in or is this just more of the realist double standard?

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02-26-2013, 09:43 AM
  #671
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And the standings in 2013 paint a different picture than the one you are painting here.

We're doing it missing our #1 goalie and 2 of our top 4 wingers.

Is it the coach?

Well Burke hired the guy.

It takes some serious blinders to say the team is not in better shape thanks to Brian Burke.
Every year you, and others like you, point to the standings with plenty of hockey to go and have been disappointed at the end of the season. It's going to work out for us one of these seasons, but let's temper our excitement a little before we're using 20 games as a argument against the past 4 years. You want to talk about blinders, that's blinders.

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02-26-2013, 09:49 AM
  #672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Intangibles like the belief that a GM is building up the prospect pool, only to find out the latest Hockey News (professional NHL scouts blended opinions) place the Leaf organization at 25th overall from the Burke draft/trade years 2009-2012, paint a very different picture of the situation.
I get so confused trying to remember whether or not we (as a forum community) are accepting THN articles as gospel at any given point in time.

It seems to switch whenever it's convenient.

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02-26-2013, 12:08 PM
  #673
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I get so confused trying to remember whether or not we (as a forum community) are accepting THN articles as gospel at any given point in time.

It seems to switch whenever it's convenient.
If it's a THN staff writer opinions or analysis, take it with a large grain of salt. If it's a list of professional NHL scouts rankings merely compiled by THN, we can give it a little more credence. Simple enough? If it's too confusing a topic for you, sometimes it's best not to get involved at all until a better understanding of the situation is reached.

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02-26-2013, 01:17 PM
  #674
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If it's a THN staff writer opinions or analysis, take it with a large grain of salt. If it's a list of professional NHL scouts rankings merely compiled by THN, we can give it a little more credence. Simple enough? If it's too confusing a topic for you, sometimes it's best not to get involved at all until a better understanding of the situation is reached.
Little being the key word, if you have any notion of how pro scouts are hired.

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02-26-2013, 01:23 PM
  #675
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Little being the key word, if you have any notion of how pro scouts are hired.
If you have a better way to rate/track then prospects than asking the people who watch them for a living then let's hear it. What's your system? I know I don't have the time to travel to all these games and watch the hundreds of prospects year after year so, like it or not, I'm stuck with the current format.

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