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Old
02-25-2013, 12:40 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by ProPAIN View Post
Tootoo is the only real fighter who could take on someone bigger than him.

Ericsson can rag doll Ott. That's about it. Abdelkader and Eaves aren't really fighters and usually get owned.

I don't want to add a pure goon though. Tootoo is perfect, since he adds more than just a pure fighter.

I'd give someone like Mike Rupp or Konopka a chance. 4th line center who can win vital faceoffs and take on pretty much anyone in the league.
I think Ericsson is underrated in his fighting. He has beaten Dorsett and held his own vs. Clowe and Clarkson. I think if needed he could hang in there with some of the better fighters.

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02-25-2013, 12:49 PM
  #127
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They are all either bad fighters (would get embarrassed against legit tough guys) or guys that we can't afford to lose for 5 minutes (like Big Rig and Smith), The only exception is Tootoo.
Exactly. Detroit has Abdelkader who is scrappy and will drop the gloves but is more of a utility guy. Ericcson and Smith are top 4 dmen, they shouldnt be forced to do any of the heavy lifting. Tootoo is the only legit threat as a fighter that is willing and can handle most players out there. He needs one guy to help him out, then with those other guys you have a team that can stack up alright against that division

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I think Ericsson is underrated in his fighting. He has beaten Dorsett and held his own vs. Clowe and Clarkson. I think if needed he could hang in there with some of the better fighters.
I think he is too. If Ericcson was meaner and more willing of a fighter he could be a pretty legit heavyweight I think. But he isnt that willing so he wont get the experience to become better like he could. Hes a top 4 dman anyways. Hes nice to have out there if **** hits the fan but he shouldnt be relied on to do it all

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02-25-2013, 01:48 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
yah I guess you're right

playing a team maybe once every other year is the same as playing them 6 or 7 times every year
In the same we match up exceedlingly well with St. Louis, we mach up as well with Boston, who plays a similar style of Hockey, aggressive, in your face, hard nose, hard hitting hockey comprised of hard hitting players mixed in with a few skill players. We match up well, because not only do we out-skill them (One of Boston's weaknesses are those speedy skill guys who can shake off checks and run around them and score.), but we can match them muscle for muscle.


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give me a break

and please dont take or use quotes out of context.
I'm not sure exactly how i took your post out of context. You claimed no team can match up against Boston, and yet Detroit has been beating them pretty well the last three years. They've also played against similar teams such as St. Louis and Nashville for a while as well.

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02-25-2013, 02:10 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by JmanWingsFan View Post
In the same we match up exceedlingly well with St. Louis, we mach up as well with Boston, who plays a similar style of Hockey, aggressive, in your face, hard nose, hard hitting hockey comprised of hard hitting players mixed in with a few skill players. We match up well, because not only do we out-skill them (One of Boston's weaknesses are those speedy skill guys who can shake off checks and run around them and score.), but we can match them muscle for muscle.



I'm not sure exactly how i took your post out of context. You claimed no team can match up against Boston, and yet Detroit has been beating them pretty well the last three years. They've also played against similar teams such as St. Louis and Nashville for a while as well.
man do you honestly think the STL Blues are the same as the Boston Bruins. STL is good but they have nothing compared to the Bruins, they're not as nasty, they're not as mean, they do not play as tough, in your face, mean hockey and they do not roll four lines that can hit, skate, score and fight. STL got steamrolled the minute they ran up to a team that played that way by the way of the LA Kings.

we dont match anybody muscle for muscle, thats the first tme I have ever heard anyone say such a thing its almost laughable

Detroit can beat boston playing them once every other year, nobody argues that point, but thats no way comparable to playing them 6 or 7 times a season.

Sorry but I would surprised if any hockey analyst ever said or would say the bruins and blues are the two toughest, meanest teams in the league

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02-25-2013, 03:26 PM
  #130
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Would be great to see the Wings with the Northeast, though admittedly not a fan of Detroit's broadcast camera. Karlsson vs Datsyuk would be amazing to watch.

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02-25-2013, 03:26 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
man do you honestly think the STL Blues are the same as the Boston Bruins. STL is good but they have nothing compared to the Bruins, they're not as nasty, they're not as mean, they do not play as tough, in your face, mean hockey and they do not roll four lines that can hit, skate, score and fight. STL got steamrolled the minute they ran up to a team that played that way by the way of the LA Kings.
You're essentially disagreeing with me just to disagree. If you think St. Louis and Boston are not similar teams, then you are sadly mistaken. Your opinion would not be shared by any experts, that I can promise you.

St. Louis has 393 hits in 18 games, hitting at a 21.8 HPG.
Boston has 390 hits in 15 games, hitting at a 26 HPG clip.

So Boston gets in four more hits per game. Hardly a significant gap.

St. Louis averages 13 PIMPG
Boston averages 14 PIMPG

Again, not a very significant gap.

St. Louis averages 2.94 GPG
Boston averages 2.87 GPG

St. Louis has blocked 286 shots, with an average rate of 15 blocked shots per game.
Boston has blocked 211 shots, averaging 14 blocked shots per game.

In every aspect, St. Louis and Boston are very similar teams. Low"93 scoring, hard hitting, gritty, in your face teams. They also rely heavily on defense and stud goaltending rather than offense to win games.

We can match up against St. Louis and beat them. You want more examples? Look at the midget team Montreal rolled out in 2011. It beat Boston four times in the regular season, and took them to seven games and overtime in the playoffs.

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we dont match anybody muscle for muscle, thats the first tme I have ever heard anyone say such a thing its almost laughable
You're hatred of capitalization and proper punctuation is getting on my nerve, but that is neither here nor there. It is quite obvious that you don't pay any attention to Red Wings games. This team doesn't play with a physical edge because it doesn't have to. But when it has to play teams that do play physical, it won't hesitate to match that physicality. The best examples of this is when the Wings played the Blues and the Predators last year. In most of our home games, we even out-hit them. I suggest, when Franzen and Bertuzzi return, that you watch a Wings game when they do play a physical team in a meaningful game. Then you'll see the full extent of what this team can do when it wants to play.
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Detroit can beat boston playing them once every other year, nobody arg荾骀mues that point, but thats no way comparable to playing them 6 or 7 times a season.
Which is why I bring up teams that play a very similar style to the Bruins, and show how the Wings play said teams 6 times a season and win most of those games.
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Sorry but I would surprised if any hockey analyst ever said or would say the bruins and blues are the two toughest, meanest teams in the league
Well then, you would be very surprised. Not many of us would be, however.

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02-25-2013, 04:05 PM
  #132
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Hawks fans are def. not happy.

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02-25-2013, 04:07 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Hawks fans are def. not happy.
I know. They have been waiting all these years to beat up on the Wings and they finally get their chance and boom.................

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02-25-2013, 04:16 PM
  #134
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Hawks fans are def. not happy.
You can't please everybody all the time.

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02-25-2013, 04:22 PM
  #135
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Hawks fans are def. not happy.
All the more reason to like the proposal.

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02-25-2013, 08:40 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Hawks fans are def. not happy.
The smarter ones should at least be able to see the benefits of being in a division with so many low-revenue bottom-feeders. If they do even a halfway decent job of managing that team, they should win that division 90+% of the time.

It'd be like the Orioles or the Blue Jays complaining about moving to the AL Central because they'd lose their "rivalries" with the Sox and Yanks. The benefits for the Hawks far outweigh any possible negatives.

Maybe there's some nostalgia for the Wings rivalry, but that's only really been a rivalry the last 5 years or so, and for a few years in the late 80s/early 90s. Otherwise it hadn't been much of a rivalry since the 60s.

As a Wings fan, half the benefit of the new proposal is the presence of Ottawa, Buffalo, Tampa, and Florida. Those teams all have various assorted development / revenue / fanbase issues and even if some of them seem to be in good shape now, it's not likely to last because the money isn't there. Even Stevie's going to have a hard time in Tampa because it's Florida - they have a hard time drawing fans to summer sports.

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02-25-2013, 09:06 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
The smarter ones should at least be able to see the benefits of being in a division with so many low-revenue bottom-feeders. If they do even a halfway decent job of managing that team, they should win that division 90+% of the time.

It'd be like the Orioles or the Blue Jays complaining about moving to the AL Central because they'd lose their "rivalries" with the Sox and Yanks. The benefits for the Hawks far outweigh any possible negatives.

Maybe there's some nostalgia for the Wings rivalry, but that's only really been a rivalry the last 5 years or so, and for a few years in the late 80s/early 90s. Otherwise it hadn't been much of a rivalry since the 60s.

As a Wings fan, half the benefit of the new proposal is the presence of Ottawa, Buffalo, Tampa, and Florida. Those teams all have various assorted development / revenue / fanbase issues and even if some of them seem to be in good shape now, it's not likely to last because the money isn't there. Even Stevie's going to have a hard time in Tampa because it's Florida - they have a hard time drawing fans to summer sports.
I don't know, that's kind of a 90s view isn't it? The league will keep those teams afloat and as long as they are there and can draft good talent, they'll be a threat. I mean Southern teams have done much better on the ice than off the ice, that's just the way the league wants it to be.

Hockey isn't baseball anymore where the Yankees and other big teams can just go after every big name free agent every off-season. A big name, a lot of fans and history doesn't mean crap here as Leafs fans can tell you.

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02-25-2013, 09:27 PM
  #138
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Yup I'll take it. Livin in east and don't have to watch all those **** west coast trips anymore. Oh and more games against the Rangers. I'll take seeing the wings at MSG more.

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02-25-2013, 09:31 PM
  #139
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Wings need more Canadian rivalries so they can use that USA chant more often.

Bring on Toronto and Montreal.

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02-25-2013, 09:53 PM
  #140
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One benefit of the move for me is that we'll presumably play the Flyers in Philly more, so it means at least 1 or 2 in person Wings games a year for me, instead of once of every other year.

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02-25-2013, 10:09 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by TheMoreYouKnow View Post
I don't know, that's kind of a 90s view isn't it? The league will keep those teams afloat and as long as they are there and can draft good talent, they'll be a threat. I mean Southern teams have done much better on the ice than off the ice, that's just the way the league wants it to be.

Hockey isn't baseball anymore where the Yankees and other big teams can just go after every big name free agent every off-season. A big name, a lot of fans and history doesn't mean crap here as Leafs fans can tell you.
The Leafs will always make a ton of money though, and players will always want to play in Toronto. Their issue is mismanagement.

Look at Colorado and to a lesser extent, Dallas. They were huge at first because they inherited really good, winning franchises that were either on top or on their way up. Now, those teams are struggling and their revenue is drying up as well.

There are plenty of loyal, great hockey fans in Southern (and Southwestern) cities, but there aren't enough of them to give a losing team the gate revenues necessary to get back on top. So unless the Avs and Stars run a Devils/Preds type of tight ship and work miracles with the draft, they're going to struggle.

Colorado's treatment of O'Reilly is a classic example - either they don't realize his value (in which case their management is incompetent), or they don't have the scratch to pay him (in which case their revenues are totally bone-dry, since they have over $17 mil in cap space and almost on long-term contract commitments. Maybe both. They're screwed. Here they have successfully drafted and developed a star forward and they can't even sign him to his second contract.

The cap is still going to go up, driven by sky-high revenues for Toronto, Montreal, Boston, Vancouver, etc. That's going to put the competitive balance more and more in favor of the high-revenue clubs as the years go by. The PA tried to offer some solutions to this problem (way, way more revenue sharing to help the small fish compete), but the Board wasn't interested. So here we are.

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02-26-2013, 01:20 AM
  #142
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The Leafs will always make a ton of money though, and players will always want to play in Toronto. Their issue is mismanagement.

Look at Colorado and to a lesser extent, Dallas. They were huge at first because they inherited really good, winning franchises that were either on top or on their way up. Now, those teams are struggling and their revenue is drying up as well.

There are plenty of loyal, great hockey fans in Southern (and Southwestern) cities, but there aren't enough of them to give a losing team the gate revenues necessary to get back on top. So unless the Avs and Stars run a Devils/Preds type of tight ship and work miracles with the draft, they're going to struggle.

Colorado's treatment of O'Reilly is a classic example - either they don't realize his value (in which case their management is incompetent), or they don't have the scratch to pay him (in which case their revenues are totally bone-dry, since they have over $17 mil in cap space and almost on long-term contract commitments. Maybe both. They're screwed. Here they have successfully drafted and developed a star forward and they can't even sign him to his second contract.

The cap is still going to go up, driven by sky-high revenues for Toronto, Montreal, Boston, Vancouver, etc. That's going to put the competitive balance more and more in favor of the high-revenue clubs as the years go by. The PA tried to offer some solutions to this problem (way, way more revenue sharing to help the small fish compete), but the Board wasn't interested. So here we are.
I don't think it's money issue. Avs have money but they need it for raised that Landekskog, Duchene, EJ, Varlamov etc are due in a few years.

They don't want to give ROR more than Duchene; which is fair imo. Avs have played hardball with their RFA's long, long time. They don't want to give them leverage. If they give now what ROR wants then what are they going to do when Landeskog's ELC ends?

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02-26-2013, 09:26 AM
  #143
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I'm all for this re-alignment, especially keeping Columbus and Detroit together; not that anyone cares, but I have to visit my kids in Columbus starting in April, so WINGS GAMES FOR EVERYONE!!!!

Plus Detroit with some other O6 clubs besides Chicago will be refreshing, and it will make those couple of match-ups a year even more meaningful.

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02-26-2013, 09:52 AM
  #144
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Colorado's treatment of O'Reilly is a classic example - either they don't realize his value (in which case their management is incompetent), or they don't have the scratch to pay him (in which case their revenues are totally bone-dry, since they have over $17 mil in cap space and almost on long-term contract commitments. Maybe both. They're screwed. Here they have successfully drafted and developed a star forward and they can't even sign him to his second contract.
I do think they're cheapskates, but at the same time this has proven to be a good formula in the cap world. It sets a precedent for the next and next and next contract to also take a cut, so it goes beyond the $ O'Reilly will make. Players more than often do adjust to what the other players on the team make, especially when it comes to re-signings. If a player sees someone he looks up to make $4M, it's natural for him to think "why should I demand more?". Few wants to be seen as greedy in front of their teammates.

STL has a good track record with the RFA bridge deals and shows why it works. Backes, Oshie, Perron, D'agostini, Berglund, Sobotka etc. When you get the ball rolling things get easier. Short contracts also keep young players sharp.

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02-26-2013, 11:47 AM
  #145
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McKenzie just twitterer playoffs would be:

Top 3 in each conference. Then the next best 2 East teams (of remaining 10) and the next best 2 west teams (of remaining 8).

It wouldn't be just next best 4 overall.

There in the lies the it's unfair to the east teams problems. Why do the East teams have to compete against 15 other teams for playoffs spots and 7 for a division(conference title) while the West only has 13 and 6 respectively?

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02-26-2013, 12:06 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Big Poppa Puck View Post
McKenzie just twitterer playoffs would be:

Top 3 in each conference. Then the next best 2 East teams (of remaining 10) and the next best 2 west teams (of remaining 8).

It wouldn't be just next best 4 overall.

There in the lies the it's unfair to the east teams problems. Why do the East teams have to compete against 15 other teams for playoffs spots and 7 for a division(conference title) while the West only has 13 and 6 respectively?
I hate calling the new divisions "conferences" instead of divisions. It still throws me off.

Anyway, not a big fan of this. I'd either stick with what we have now - division winners are the 1-2 seeds and everyone else falls in behind according to points - or use the format from the 80s where the teams played within their divisions first, and then played the winner of the other division to determine a conference champ.

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02-26-2013, 12:11 PM
  #147
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I do think they're cheapskates, but at the same time this has proven to be a good formula in the cap world. It sets a precedent for the next and next and next contract to also take a cut, so it goes beyond the $ O'Reilly will make. Players more than often do adjust to what the other players on the team make, especially when it comes to re-signings. If a player sees someone he looks up to make $4M, it's natural for him to think "why should I demand more?". Few wants to be seen as greedy in front of their teammates.

STL has a good track record with the RFA bridge deals and shows why it works. Backes, Oshie, Perron, D'agostini, Berglund, Sobotka etc. When you get the ball rolling things get easier. Short contracts also keep young players sharp.
Avs did offer ROR 17m/5y.

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02-26-2013, 12:53 PM
  #148
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Hawks fans are def. not happy.
They got their happiness with drafting in the top 5 so many years straight and a cup almost directly from sucking for ages.

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02-26-2013, 01:24 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by sarcastro View Post
The smarter ones should at least be able to see the benefits of being in a division with so many low-revenue bottom-feeders. If they do even a halfway decent job of managing that team, they should win that division 90+% of the time.

It'd be like the Orioles or the Blue Jays complaining about moving to the AL Central because they'd lose their "rivalries" with the Sox and Yanks. The benefits for the Hawks far outweigh any possible negatives.

Maybe there's some nostalgia for the Wings rivalry, but that's only really been a rivalry the last 5 years or so, and for a few years in the late 80s/early 90s. Otherwise it hadn't been much of a rivalry since the 60s.

As a Wings fan, half the benefit of the new proposal is the presence of Ottawa, Buffalo, Tampa, and Florida. Those teams all have various assorted development / revenue / fanbase issues and even if some of them seem to be in good shape now, it's not likely to last because the money isn't there. Even Stevie's going to have a hard time in Tampa because it's Florida - they have a hard time drawing fans to summer sports.
I hate it because I am about to see another rival go away

-North Stars moved then left division
-Leafs fled East
-Wings now fleeing East

There is nothing left of Norris but the Blues. And sorry but the Wild will never be the North Stars ,, I dont care if they move into division with Hawks I feel absolutely nothing towards that franchise

And Winnipeg : the teams in Alberta/BC care about Winnipeg not anyone here in Chicago

Same with Colorado ,,, Chicago has no rivalries with anyone in Colorado

Stl , Win , Min , Dal , Nas , Col =

Just hate it

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02-26-2013, 01:26 PM
  #150
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Also I think it is stupid to realign while Pho is still a major issue and there is only 30 teams

If NHL wants to realign then go all in and put 2 new franchises (Sea + KC/Hou) and end the Pho circus one way or another

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