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Old
02-25-2013, 03:10 PM
  #101
Sorinth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impudent_lowlife View Post
Subban has Norris trophy potential, since he isn't there yet there's obviously stuff he needs to learn/improve on. Off the top of my head I would say he needs to improve

- Poise on the PP
- Decision making on when to take risks vs play it safe
- Shot Accuracy
- Timing on big-hits
- Decision making on when to go for the big-hit
- Using his teammates more effectively

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Old
02-25-2013, 03:19 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
You can make all the excuses you want to not to trade him but they're false objections. Yes, he has value to us but he'd have value to other teams as well. The same reasons you're saying to keep him is why teams would pay for him.
Being 1st in the East and a possible SC contender is not a false objection.

As for value yes he has value. A lottery ticket has value as well. The worse your odds of winning the lower the value will be. Same goes for Markov the risks associated with his injuries have reduced what people are willing to pay for him. Which makes him more valuable to us then what we could get in a trade.

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02-25-2013, 03:42 PM
  #103
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A tough #12 or #13 forward.

A big and tall tough shot blocking, crease clearing d-man.


PP has to be improved as well as PK

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Old
02-25-2013, 03:57 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
You are full of crap dude.

I showed you the link a month ago. It was Markov for JVRD + a pick or Cammy + Halak (when he was a 2nd stringer) for him and a pick... And in that same link you'll see people saying it would be stupid to trade Markov for some kid named Claude Giroux and a pick.

Go find any post where I said we should deal Max. I don't believe in dealing away propspects when you are rebuilding.

It seems silly to you because you don't understand the concept of dealing for the future. You are also narrow minded and only see things through rose coloured glasses... You weren't able to understand that a core of Cammy, Gomez and Gionta wasn't going to take us anywhere...

Does the proposal seem silly now? Will it seem silly three years from now or five?

You STILL don't get it.

He wasn't a question mark... He was an elite prospect. You're talking like it's a blind shot on a dartboard... it's not.

Yeah... sure seems stupid now to have a 22 year old who's third in the NHL in goals. What was I thinking?

The fact that you can't admit you were wrong with the evidence in front of you just shows that you have no idea what you're talking about.
Sorry dude, you're wrong. You wanted to give Pacioretty for JVR about three years ago. But whatever, believe what you want, because Markov for JVR was still a stupid deal three years ago regardless. Both your trade proposals were ridiculous and would get you fired as GM.

I love how you ignore the fact that I repeated many times how Markov WAS the Montreal Canadiens, he was the singular proven, elite player on the team; the superstar of the Habs. I even showed you his point totals. Why on EARTH would you trade your superstar for James ****ing Van Riemsdyk, who had proven NOTHING as of yet in the league, playing on a team just as bad as we were? It is the most ridiculous trade proposal I have ever seen someone so desperately grasp at in a long time.

Your argument for trading Markov for JVR was, and I quote "a core of Cammy, Gomez and Gionta wasn't going to take us anywhere..." LOL WHAT? Okay, correct as that may be, you don't trade arguably your most prized possession, your one proven superstar on your team, for a kid who hadn't done anything in the league and wasn't even that highly touted as a prospect. Look at his numbers, he has never gotten above 40 points in any competitive league. He has never won any awards of any note at all. If you don't like your core, trade THEM away, not your biggest piece for a player who hadn't proved anything as of yet and would only play a SUPPORT role to THE VERY CORE that you despised so much.

Do you see now how terrible your logic is?

If you wanted to trade Markov three years ago, in his prime, you could've gotten WAY more than just James Van Riemsdyk. What a terrible idea for a trade. And so what if JVR has 11 goals so far? Big deal! It doesn't prove anything. It proves he could get some decent goal scoring for 19 games in a season (and only four assists, mind you). He's never even gotten more than forty points in his life in any competitive league. He still hasn't proven anything yet, but of course you wanted to trade our superstar away to get him.

Absolutely hilarious how you're still defending the ridiculous trade proposal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
Being 1st in the East and a possible SC contender is not a false objection.

As for value yes he has value. A lottery ticket has value as well. The worse your odds of winning the lower the value will be. Same goes for Markov the risks associated with his injuries have reduced what people are willing to pay for him. Which makes him more valuable to us then what we could get in a trade.
This makes too much sense.

I can't comprehend how some people cannot see how Markov has way more value on our team than anything we can get coming our way in a trade would be to us. Obviously if we get an amazing return for him, go for it... but the fact that we will NOT is something that is hard to get through some of the thick skulls in here.

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Old
02-25-2013, 04:00 PM
  #105
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A better, more knowledgeable fanbase.

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Old
02-25-2013, 04:37 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
Huet was traded for a 2nd rounder when we were top-4 in the conference.

Huet went on to be dismantled by Philadelphia in the 1st round, and Price went on to be dismantled by Philadelphia in the 2nd.

Fans blamed Gainey for the Huet trade, a lot of people argued that we could have gone further with Huet.

I wonder if the backlash is the reason Gainey stayed put at the 2009 trade deadline, when he missed the opportunity of the decade in not trading Tanguay, Koivu, Kovalev, and Komisarek at the deadline.

Gainey actually had a fair degree of versatility. He did trade Rivet for Gorges and a 1st. He also tried to get Mats Sundin for a 1st, Higgins, and Grabovski (or something like that) at the 2008 deadline, my understanding is that Toronto agreed but Sundin turned it down because he lacked the desire to win a cup.
Gainey was terrible, he also offered a ridiculous package for Vinny. Gainey was very good in the beginning, after his daughter died, he lost his edge and didn't know how to put this team over the hump. His last couple years with the habs were atrocious.

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02-25-2013, 07:43 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
A better, more knowledgeable fanbase.
Don't condescend when you put out useless posts like that, makes you look arrogant without the brains to warrant that arrogance.

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Old
02-25-2013, 07:46 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
Gainey was terrible, he also offered a ridiculous package for Vinny. Gainey was very good in the beginning, after his daughter died, he lost his edge and didn't know how to put this team over the hump. His last couple years with the habs were atrocious.
The vinny package was subban, plekanec, higgins, gorges, and three 1st rounders.

Is that what gainey offered and Tampa refused, or is that what Tampa wanted and gainey refused?

It would have been far, far worse than the Gomez trade.

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Old
02-25-2013, 08:17 PM
  #109
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
Being 1st in the East and a possible SC contender is not a false objection.
No, it's not. Unlike the mentor crap, it's actually legit.

Personally, I don't think that we're a real cup threat this year. But you're right, we're in first place. I still believe that dealing him would be better for us in the long run.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
Sorry dude, you're wrong. You wanted to give Pacioretty for JVR about three years ago.
No I didn't. I showed you the post. Everyone knows I wouldn't make this kind of proposal. I dont believe in trading prospects while you rebuild. It doesn't make sense... You say I proposed it... prove it.

Put up or shut up.

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Old
02-25-2013, 08:20 PM
  #110
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
The vinny package was subban, plekanec, higgins, gorges, and three 1st rounders.

Is that what gainey offered and Tampa refused, or is that what Tampa wanted and gainey refused?

It would have been far, far worse than the Gomez trade.
I remember there was some insane package... I can't believe he would've been that crazy. No way that can be real... Holy crap.

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Old
02-25-2013, 08:26 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
No I didn't. I showed you the post. Everyone knows I wouldn't make this kind of proposal. I dont believe in trading prospects while you rebuild. It doesn't make sense... You say I proposed it... prove it.

Put up or shut up.
Loving how you just completely disregard the rest of my massive post. It's obvious you realized I was right, so bringing up the three year old post is pointless because your whole idea was that the Markov trade was the better trade either way, and I just finished explaining how ridiculous it would have been.

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02-25-2013, 08:49 PM
  #112
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
Loving how you just completely disregard the rest of my massive post. It's obvious you realized I was right, so bringing up the three year old post is pointless because your whole idea was that the Markov trade was the better trade either way, and I just finished explaining how ridiculous it would have been.
I didn't read the rest of your post... I read your BS and skipped the rest. I'm not going to argue with you on this.

If you have a post, show it. Put up or shut up.

I've shown you the links where I've proposed those trades.

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Old
02-25-2013, 09:24 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I didn't read the rest of your post... I read your BS and skipped the rest. I'm not going to argue with you on this.

If you have a post, show it. Put up or shut up.

I've shown you the links where I've proposed those trades.
This is getting silly. The post wasn't even about Pacioretty, it was about the Markov trade you claim you suggested...

Just admit you're wrong for once man, it's always a constant battle with you!

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Old
02-25-2013, 09:49 PM
  #114
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
This is getting silly. The post wasn't even about Pacioretty, it was about the Markov trade you claim you suggested...

Just admit you're wrong for once man, it's always a constant battle with you!
I've posted the thread for all to see. The trade suggestions were Markov for JVRD + a 1st. Or Cammy & Halak for JVRD + a pick.

If you have any posts of my suggesting something where we deal away Pac then SHOW IT or stop wasting everyone's time. I'm not going to argue with you on something I never said.

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Old
02-25-2013, 10:26 PM
  #115
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Old
02-25-2013, 10:53 PM
  #116
JohnLennon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I've posted the thread for all to see. The trade suggestions were Markov for JVRD + a 1st. Or Cammy & Halak for JVRD + a pick.

If you have any posts of my suggesting something where we deal away Pac then SHOW IT or stop wasting everyone's time. I'm not going to argue with you on something I never said.
You're the only one bringing up the Pacioretty trade at this point, and for the past few posts. I think you're getting overly defensive because I pointed out how silly the Markov trade looked.

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Old
02-25-2013, 11:26 PM
  #117
DAChampion
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Originally Posted by JohnLennon View Post
You're the only one bringing up the Pacioretty trade at this point, and for the past few posts. I think you're getting overly defensive because I pointed out how silly the Markov trade looked.
Of course he's defensive, you're accusing him of saying something stupid he has no recollection of saying. You would be too.

Just:
1) Admit you are wrong.
2) Show that in fact LG is wrong

So that the interesting convo can move forward.

As an aside, chilly would have given a lot more than JVRD for Markov, depending on the year.

Unfortunately, Markov's value is way down.

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Old
02-25-2013, 11:38 PM
  #118
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
As an aside, chilly would have given a lot more than JVRD for Markov, depending on the year.
JVRD and a 1st.

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