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2013 Leafs Trades/Proposals/Signings: Version VI - Just trade O'Reilly Already!

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Old
02-25-2013, 02:19 PM
  #951
calcal798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyThoughts View Post
If he's not a #1 defenseman, who is?

-He's 5th leaguewide in TOI/G
-35th among defenseman in SHTOI/G

-8th in hits among defenseman
-47th in BkS among defenseman

-11th in goals among defenseman
-23rd in scoring among defenseman
-6th in PPG among defenseman
-5th in PPP among defenseman
-9th in SOG among defenseman

He is a jack-of-all trades defenseman. Phaneuf matches up against the oppositions top line at ES/PP/PK with the ability to post offensive numbers while shutting them down. Furthermore, he is a consistently dominant physical force and a shot leader among defenseman.

Moreover, who does Dion Phaneuf play with? Over the past 2 seasons it's Carl Gunnarsson and Mike Kostka. So a 20pt two-way defenseman and a career-AHLer.
It is widely accepted that we are lacking one top pairing defenseman. Phaneuf may not rank among the very elite defenseman leaguewide but he is certainly a #1 defenseman.

Once Jake Gardiner or Morgan Rielly emerge or the Leafs sign/trade for a top pairing defenseman we will see just how refined Dion Phaneuf can be. I've been saying it for years, Phaneuf is overworked due to how well he can complete the tasks that our coaches give to him. Put him alongside a dynamic, smooth skating defenseman like our 2 prospects or beside a steady veteran like Ryan Suter, Dan Hamhuis, Marc Staal, Dan Girardi..etc and you would really see Phaneuf's value and overall play skyrocket.
Awesome post and I completely agree. I know I posted otherwise previously, but maybe after Gardiner gets back to his old self, a pairing of Gards-Phaneuf is in order. Having that pairing play 23+ mins a night would be really good for this team. And I feel like they could grow good chemistry together over time.

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Old
02-25-2013, 02:27 PM
  #952
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+1 on the Phaneuf post.

He brings a skill-set that we would miss a LOT if you took him off the team longterm. Who is going to be the top pairing guy to play with Rielly if we move Phaneuf? Who is going to play 25+ minutes a night in the playoffs with Rielly without looking out of place? Phaneuf brings a dominating physical game that Rielly and Gardiner both lack, and he brings a big shot from the point.

I've criticized him a lot in the past, but that was only when I was arguing with people that he wasn't a legitimate franchise D that can be the main foundation for your team. That doesn't mean that he can't be a very legitimate top pairing D on a Cup calibre team.

He's not perfect. His hockey IQ isn't the best and he can be out of position and get beat on the outside sometimes, but now that he's not in Wilson's ridiculous Run N Gun system, his defensive game is starting to look a bit better.

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02-25-2013, 02:33 PM
  #953
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To think, we rely so much on phanuef when we still dont have a defenseman in the top 4 who can play true shutdown defence, if you think that person is gunnarsson you need to watch some real teams play.

This defense lacks that kind of player in its pipe so badly. Its a real big need moving forward.

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02-25-2013, 02:40 PM
  #954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyThoughts View Post
If he's not a #1 defenseman, who is?

-He's 5th leaguewide in TOI/G
-35th among defenseman in SHTOI/G

-8th in hits among defenseman
-47th in BkS among defenseman

-11th in goals among defenseman
-23rd in scoring among defenseman
-6th in PPG among defenseman
-5th in PPP among defenseman
-9th in SOG among defenseman

He is a jack-of-all trades defenseman. Phaneuf matches up against the oppositions top line at ES/PP/PK with the ability to post offensive numbers while shutting them down. Furthermore, he is a consistently dominant physical force and a shot leader among defenseman.

Moreover, who does Dion Phaneuf play with? Over the past 2 seasons it's Carl Gunnarsson and Mike Kostka. So a 20pt two-way defenseman and a career-AHLer.
It is widely accepted that we are lacking one top pairing defenseman. Phaneuf may not rank among the very elite defenseman leaguewide but he is certainly a #1 defenseman.

Once Jake Gardiner or Morgan Rielly emerge or the Leafs sign/trade for a top pairing defenseman we will see just how refined Dion Phaneuf can be. I've been saying it for years, Phaneuf is overworked due to how well he can complete the tasks that our coaches give to him. Put him alongside a dynamic, smooth skating defenseman like our 2 prospects or beside a steady veteran like Ryan Suter, Dan Hamhuis, Marc Staal, Dan Girardi..etc and you would really see Phaneuf's value and overall play skyrocket.
Good post and I agree, Dion is a workhorse and a #1 Defenseman, there is absolutely no way he won't be re-signed and probably for 7 million plus per year and he is still young at 27.

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Old
02-25-2013, 02:44 PM
  #955
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Originally Posted by Budsfan View Post
Good post and I agree, Dion is a workhorse and a #1 Defenseman, there is absolutely no way he won't be re-signed and probably for 7 million plus per year and he is still young at 27.
If Phaneuf is asking for 7 million plus per year he isn't coming back. He's an important part of the defence and when his time is managed properly he's effective. But no way do you pay him that much, he should be taking some kind of paycut in his next deal.

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Old
02-25-2013, 02:54 PM
  #956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyThoughts View Post
If he's not a #1 defenseman, who is?

-He's 5th leaguewide in TOI/G
-35th among defenseman in SHTOI/G

-8th in hits among defenseman
-47th in BkS among defenseman

-11th in goals among defenseman
-23rd in scoring among defenseman
-6th in PPG among defenseman
-5th in PPP among defenseman
-9th in SOG among defenseman

He is a jack-of-all trades defenseman. Phaneuf matches up against the oppositions top line at ES/PP/PK with the ability to post offensive numbers while shutting them down. Furthermore, he is a consistently dominant physical force and a shot leader among defenseman.

Moreover, who does Dion Phaneuf play with? Over the past 2 seasons it's Carl Gunnarsson and Mike Kostka. So a 20pt two-way defenseman and a career-AHLer.
It is widely accepted that we are lacking one top pairing defenseman. Phaneuf may not rank among the very elite defenseman leaguewide but he is certainly a #1 defenseman.

Once Jake Gardiner or Morgan Rielly emerge or the Leafs sign/trade for a top pairing defenseman we will see just how refined Dion Phaneuf can be. I've been saying it for years, Phaneuf is overworked due to how well he can complete the tasks that our coaches give to him. Put him alongside a dynamic, smooth skating defenseman like our 2 prospects or beside a steady veteran like Ryan Suter, Dan Hamhuis, Marc Staal, Dan Girardi..etc and you would really see Phaneuf's value and overall play skyrocket.
one of the best posts i have read in a while.

Dion is a #1 there is no doubt. The Issue is he needs a DD as HIS #2!

Most his success came when he played with Roman Hamerlik because that allowed Dion more range and allowed him to use his offensive instincts more.

So far Holzer has been decent with Dion. Will he be a Hamerlik? Not sure... Time will tell.

I think we should give Dion 8 years @ $5.5 per. That would give him term and the Leafs a manageable cap hit. Both sides win!

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Old
02-25-2013, 04:07 PM
  #957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyThoughts View Post
If he's not a #1 defenseman, who is?

-He's 5th leaguewide in TOI/G
-35th among defenseman in SHTOI/G

-8th in hits among defenseman
-47th in BkS among defenseman

-11th in goals among defenseman
-23rd in scoring among defenseman
-6th in PPG among defenseman
-5th in PPP among defenseman
-9th in SOG among defenseman

He is a jack-of-all trades defenseman. Phaneuf matches up against the oppositions top line at ES/PP/PK with the ability to post offensive numbers while shutting them down. Furthermore, he is a consistently dominant physical force and a shot leader among defenseman.

Moreover, who does Dion Phaneuf play with? Over the past 2 seasons it's Carl Gunnarsson and Mike Kostka. So a 20pt two-way defenseman and a career-AHLer.
It is widely accepted that we are lacking one top pairing defenseman. Phaneuf may not rank among the very elite defenseman leaguewide but he is certainly a #1 defenseman.

Once Jake Gardiner or Morgan Rielly emerge or the Leafs sign/trade for a top pairing defenseman we will see just how refined Dion Phaneuf can be. I've been saying it for years, Phaneuf is overworked due to how well he can complete the tasks that our coaches give to him. Put him alongside a dynamic, smooth skating defenseman like our 2 prospects or beside a steady veteran like Ryan Suter, Dan Hamhuis, Marc Staal, Dan Girardi..etc and you would really see Phaneuf's value and overall play skyrocket.


i can't believe some of the **** Dion gets from some fans. Pathetic

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Old
02-25-2013, 04:15 PM
  #958
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
If Phaneuf is asking for 7 million plus per year he isn't coming back. He's an important part of the defence and when his time is managed properly he's effective. But no way do you pay him that much, he should be taking some kind of paycut in his next deal.
Good luck with that. Phaneuf wanting 7 mil per is not unrealistic, and if he doesnt get it with the Leafs, he will likely get Suter numbers on his next contract.

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02-25-2013, 04:26 PM
  #959
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The name says it all about Dion. Steal by Burke. Gave our team some swagger and an identity.

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02-25-2013, 04:27 PM
  #960
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Originally Posted by FlareKnight View Post
If Phaneuf is asking for 7 million plus per year he isn't coming back. He's an important part of the defence and when his time is managed properly he's effective. But no way do you pay him that much, he should be taking some kind of paycut in his next deal.
He is currently earning 6.5 million and you believe he won't be getting more in a new contract, as a top defenceman.

He will be in demand throughout the league and will get that much or more, if not from the leafs then on another team but I really think he will be re-signed here.

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02-25-2013, 04:31 PM
  #961
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
The name says it all about Dion. Steal by Burke. Gave our team some swagger and an identity.
He really needs a stable partner. I hope its either Gards or Rielly so we don't have to look too far but man it's killing to see him taking so much of the pressure in the defensive game.

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02-25-2013, 07:12 PM
  #962
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hahaha yeah ok.

Gunnar has been our most consistent defensive d-man over the last few seasons. He has had a couple rough games because of a hip injury - which isn't a minor issue to have.

What is this notion that every defensive d-man has to destroy everyone physically to be effective? Gunnar separates guys from the puck, and almost always gets the puck out of our end safely.
Wrong. Part of his weakness in his game is separating guys from pucks on players who play a hard game sure he's ok against some skill guys put a lunch pail hard nosed player on the ice and Gunnerson gets exposed, HE'S SOFT. Your right in that he's consistent, consistently soft in front of the net and nobody on the blue line hears the train tracks more than he does where you can see the turnover coming way before he does it cause he's afraid to take a hit to make a play due to he doesn't have the skills or the skating ability to escape like puck movers do.

This isn't NEW injury no injury it's the same Gunnerson since day 1 but people like you have gone on to overrate him just because he's a safe positional sound minute eating D men on most nights who's neither a shut down guy or a puck moving D men. He's a tweener that gets exposed vs hard working dump and chase, grind on the boards teams

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Old
02-25-2013, 07:13 PM
  #963
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Trade board looks like July 1st today. Five signings and a trade, lol

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02-25-2013, 08:11 PM
  #964
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The name says it all about Dion. Steal by Burke. Gave our team some swagger and an identity.
... Except dion doesn't really have swagger IMO. He isn't respected in the least among his peers (3 x's voted most overrated?), and hasn't even established himself as anything yet. He's not established as a top offensive player anymore, he's not considered a top defender either.... He's not consistent at all. He can be great, he can play bad. He used to throw a lot of big hits, not so much anymore, he used to fight (well 10xs once in a season), not so much anymore, he used to score ALOT, not so much anymore. He's like Bryan McCabe, but peaked much earlier in his career. Don't get me wrong, phaneuf is ok, sometimes great, but i think he deserves the overrated tag. He's an ok captain, but I'd prefer a captain with consistency, and respect among his peers and league. Too bad those aren't so easy to come by these days.

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02-25-2013, 10:07 PM
  #965
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
Trade board looks like July 1st today. Five signings and a trade, lol
Everything is just fairly insignificant though.

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02-25-2013, 10:17 PM
  #966
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Everything is just fairly insignificant though.
So exactly like July 1st!

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02-25-2013, 11:17 PM
  #967
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Originally Posted by Leaf Rocket View Post
He really needs a stable partner. I hope its either Gards or Rielly so we don't have to look too far but man it's killing to see him taking so much of the pressure in the defensive game.
With who we have in the system it maybe better to think of Phaneuf more along the lines of Scott Stevens, and start putting more offensive guys with him so he can become more defensive. Remember Stevens was an excellent offensive defensman for the first half of his carreer.

With Gardiner and Rielly both in the system chances are one of them will have to play with DIon.

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02-25-2013, 11:20 PM
  #968
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Good luck with that. Phaneuf wanting 7 mil per is not unrealistic, and if he doesnt get it with the Leafs, he will likely get Suter numbers on his next contract.
And I say good luck right back to you. Putting him in the top 5 for defensemen cap hit is ridiculous. He win a Norris trophy while I wasn't looking? We might as well settle on not winning anything if that's our master strategy.

You can't re-sign him for more than he's getting and if you want to build a winning team his cap hit needs to drop. If he can't at least take what he's getting now then he can go ahead and cripple the cap situation of another team.

I want to keep him around, but definitely not at 7+.

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02-26-2013, 01:08 AM
  #969
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... Except dion doesn't really have swagger IMO. He isn't respected in the least among his peers (3 x's voted most overrated?), and hasn't even established himself as anything yet. He's not established as a top offensive player anymore, he's not considered a top defender either.... He's not consistent at all. He can be great, he can play bad. He used to throw a lot of big hits, not so much anymore, he used to fight (well 10xs once in a season), not so much anymore, he used to score ALOT, not so much anymore. He's like Bryan McCabe, but peaked much earlier in his career. Don't get me wrong, phaneuf is ok, sometimes great, but i think he deserves the overrated tag. He's an ok captain, but I'd prefer a captain with consistency, and respect among his peers and league. Too bad those aren't so easy to come by these days.
McCabe was never a mean player like Phaneuf, and most of the time relied on his hip check on players against the boards, and when the rules changed about interference, McCabe became less effective.

Regarding the survey, these NHL players may look like men, but they are still kids when playing hockey, as they've played it all their life, so teasing and taunting is still part of the game. I think Phaneuf's peers (especially the forwards) simply hate playing against him as he's not an easy d man to play against, and who knows when Phaneuf will lay that big open ice hit on them. And remember, some of them have played against Phaneuf since they were kids. I'm also sure some of those players didn't like playing against him in the international competitions either. He played with reckless abandon to the point of being dangerous when he hits.

As Phaneuf has matured, he has contained his aggression in delivering those hits, but he's still one of the best open ice hitters in the game, and that reputation lives on. There's nothing like some taunting and teasing to try to get Phaneuf off his game.

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02-26-2013, 03:16 AM
  #970
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I wish the Leafs were in on the Jay Boumeester trade rumors. I think he's just the guy we need to help anchor our #1 D pairing. Smooth skater, great passer, can lead the rush but is also completely fine playing as a stay at home D-man. Imagine having Phaneuf - Boumeester pairing! Phaneuf could ease up on his ice time and focus on producing more offensively.

Next Season:
Phaneuf - Boumeester
Gardiner - Franson
Reilly - Holzer
Fraser

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02-26-2013, 03:20 AM
  #971
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Last time I checked Bouwmeester has yet to play a playoff game, don't want him as our shut down guy with Dion. We need to build from within.

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02-26-2013, 08:59 AM
  #972
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Imagine having Phaneuf - Boumeester pairing!

Calgary thought so highly of it they turned the page on it in a year.

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02-26-2013, 09:05 AM
  #973
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Wrong. Part of his weakness in his game is separating guys from pucks on players who play a hard game sure he's ok against some skill guys put a lunch pail hard nosed player on the ice and Gunnerson gets exposed, HE'S SOFT. Your right in that he's consistent, consistently soft in front of the net and nobody on the blue line hears the train tracks more than he does where you can see the turnover coming way before he does it cause he's afraid to take a hit to make a play due to he doesn't have the skills or the skating ability to escape like puck movers do.

This isn't NEW injury no injury it's the same Gunnerson since day 1 but people like you have gone on to overrate him just because he's a safe positional sound minute eating D men on most nights who's neither a shut down guy or a puck moving D men. He's a tweener that gets exposed vs hard working dump and chase, grind on the boards teams
This. .. bang on here. I dont get the hype and over-rating

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02-26-2013, 09:25 AM
  #974
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Last time I checked Bouwmeester has yet to play a playoff game, don't want him as our shut down guy with Dion. We need to build from within.
A 6'4" softy. He'd get boo'ed off the ice after every loss with that bloated contract here in Toronto. Typical case of the grass being greener. Bouwmeester is definitely not the guy we need. I'd rather Cory Sarich just to add some more depth on the cheap.

Gunnarsson is having an average season and people are already turning on him. Holzer has a bad game, demote him! Liles in press-box? He's worthless! I'd wager 99% of the folks calling Gunnarsson overrated now were screaming how underrated he was just last season.

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02-26-2013, 09:40 AM
  #975
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A 6'4" softy. He'd get boo'ed off the ice after every loss with that bloated contract here in Toronto. Typical case of the grass being greener. Bouwmeester is definitely not the guy we need. I'd rather Cory Sarich just to add some more depth on the cheap.

Gunnarsson is having an average season and people are already turning on him. Holzer has a bad game, demote him! Liles in press-box? He's worthless! I'd wager 99% of the folks calling Gunnarsson overrated now were screaming how underrated he was just last season.
Love to see the basis for the wager...you'd lose off the bat, I've always said what I said two posts above

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