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In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics here) XXXII

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Old
02-25-2013, 02:14 PM
  #726
Zandar
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Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
PAP has been one of the few real bright spots for this team. He is untouchable for anything less than an extreme overpayment. But if you need a playmaker we got a RFA that could be had, he will also take an overpayment though.
Unless PA falls to pieces... He should finish his contract with the Avs. It everything goes well, he will spend even longer with the Avs.

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02-25-2013, 03:11 PM
  #727
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Is there some reason that there are a bunch of signings today? Seems weird, like it is some sort of deadline.

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02-25-2013, 03:58 PM
  #728
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
Truth of the matter is that Parenteau is way, way too important to the Avs to part ways with. We need a scoring winger for Duchene in the worst way, and their chemistry thus far has been fantastic. And the Avs simply don't have another scoring winger in the system to replace what would be lost with Parenteau. Throwing Jordan Schroeder our way would help, but it looks like PAP is going to be here long-term at least until we develop some scoring punch in the system.

I think Gillis would be better off going after a cheaper option if he's really looking for a playmaking winger, then maybe address the problem this offseason via trade/free agency if it's that much of a concern.
Would Schroeder and Garrison for PA be more appealing?

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Old
02-25-2013, 04:01 PM
  #729
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Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
Would Schroeder and Garrison for PA be more appealing?
I dont like Garrisons contract at all. I wouldn't do it anyway.

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Old
02-25-2013, 04:02 PM
  #730
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Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
Would Schroeder and Garrison for PA be more appealing?
Avs signed Parenteau because they want him to play hockey for Avs. They're not going to trade a guy they just signed as a UFA. Nor would any team, unless there are very special circumstances.

What goes for Parenteau goes for Garrison. He just signed as a UFA in his hometown, has played less than 20 games and you want to ship him out? Do you realize how that would reflect on Canucks as an organization, should they trade him now?

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Old
02-25-2013, 04:25 PM
  #731
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So apparently, after getting completely hosed (using a more PG term here than what was originally described) by the Maple Leafs in a deal for JM Liles for ONLY A 2ND!!!!, he's been a healthy scratch for 3 straight games.

So, I wonder, if he's STILL AWESOME but it's just that the REST of the leafs are so much more AWESOMER or maybe, just maybe, it turns out it wasn't that bad of a deal after all?

It's only another 3 years at $3.85M.

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1359815

That article also mentions that Gunnarsson may also NOT be "the greatest top 4 guy that no one has heard of, of all time" either?! Could that really be?!?

Liles struggling since his concussion has nothing to do with the fact that getting a 2nd back was bad value at the time. His limited NTC was probably a factor, but to be honest, if he never played another game from today onward I'd still think that was bad value at the time.

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Old
02-25-2013, 04:36 PM
  #732
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We used the money freed up by Liles to get Hejda, and in a vacuum I like Hejda more than Liles, plus he fits in better next to our nearest defensive prospects Barrie and Elliott, at this point he's more help than JML. It would've been great to hold onto Liles to bridge the gap and sign Hejda, but we don't know if Sherman had permission to spend that much.

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02-25-2013, 04:42 PM
  #733
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Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
Would Schroeder and Garrison for PA be more appealing?
Not for me. Like I said earlier, it would take a massive overpayment. As for what that overpayment would be, lets just say you don't want to know. PAP is the wing Duchene has been missing since Flash went down.

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Old
02-25-2013, 05:48 PM
  #734
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Originally Posted by Nihiliste View Post
Liles struggling since his concussion has nothing to do with the fact that getting a 2nd back was bad value at the time. His limited NTC was probably a factor, but to be honest, if he never played another game from today onward I'd still think that was bad value at the time.
No other team on his list of 12-14 or whatever would give us more than a 2nd, so he was sent to the Leafs. What do you want to do, FORCE teams to give us more?? You can say it was bad value all you want, even after the leafs re-signed him to a pretty nice deal, it might actually start to look like another albatross in the not too distant future. (Komisarek and Finger before)

While it's still hindsight, getting a 2nd round pick PLUS dodging that bullet looks pretty good to me. Normally, I wouldn't give a crap and wouldn't be posting messages like this but when the trade occurred and when he started with the Leafs, their fans were all too thrilled to stick it to us, weren't they.

Now, if Nonis somehow turns around and gets a 2nd and something else for him, then it will certainly be bad value but I don't think he'll get that.

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Old
02-25-2013, 05:53 PM
  #735
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Liles was never that good. Dude simply wasn't worth more than a second. A pretty average #4 PMD. Poor defensively, above average in transition, extremely soft, above average power play quarterback.

Honestly, when we weren't on the powerplay, Liles didn't bring that much other than some good zone exits.

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Old
02-25-2013, 05:54 PM
  #736
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
No other team on his list of 12-14 or whatever would give us more than a 2nd, so he was sent to the Leafs. What do you want to do, FORCE teams to give us more?? You can say it was bad value all you want, even after the leafs re-signed him to a pretty nice deal, it might actually start to look like another albatross in the not too distant future. (Komisarek and Finger before)

While it's still hindsight, getting a 2nd round pick PLUS dodging that bullet looks pretty good to me. Normally, I wouldn't give a crap and wouldn't be posting messages like this but when the trade occurred and when he started with the Leafs, their fans were all too thrilled to stick it to us, weren't they.

Now, if Nonis somehow turns around and gets a 2nd and something else for him, then it will certainly be bad value but I don't think he'll get that.
Uh, why not keep him?

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Old
02-25-2013, 05:54 PM
  #737
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Originally Posted by cgf View Post
We used the money freed up by Liles to get Hejda, and in a vacuum I like Hejda more than Liles, plus he fits in better next to our nearest defensive prospects Barrie and Elliott, at this point he's more help than JML. It would've been great to hold onto Liles to bridge the gap and sign Hejda, but we don't know if Sherman had permission to spend that much.
Again, we have no evidence whatsoever that ownership forced management to stick to the cap floor. The only things that have been reported were that ownership said that if this team were to spend to the cap again, they'd better have a winner.

Unfortunately it's hard to tell anything one way or the other since the hockey side of the Pepsi Center operates like a black box. Nothing gets in, nothing gets out.

If there's truly a spending restriction on Sherman, it's more than likely coming from Lacroix, not KSE.

I don't necessarily have a problem with the restrictions on spending so long as we don't lose marquee young players for nothing as a result. At least they've shown a willingness to spend above the cap this offseason.

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Old
02-25-2013, 08:14 PM
  #738
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Liles was never that good. Dude simply wasn't worth more than a second. A pretty average #4 PMD. Poor defensively, above average in transition, extremely soft, above average power play quarterback.

Honestly, when we weren't on the powerplay, Liles didn't bring that much other than some good zone exits.
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Uh, why not keep him?
For me it's pretty much what Alex Jones talks about in his post. Liles was a classic catch 22 because he needed minutes to be effective but wasn't worth the minutes he played, in my opinion. I don't think his offensive abilities really made up for his average defensive play. Already earning $4.2M and after what Wisniewski signed for, Liles was set for a big pay day as an upcoming UFA. Surprisingly, he decided to re-up with the Leafs for less than what he was making.

Liles played his best hockey when he came into the league and played beside a guy like Rob Blake. That really allowed him to creep up and get quite a few goals with that 'backdoor play'. After Blake left, Liles was much less effective. I remember him lugging the puck up the ice and going through some guys only to take a low percentage shot on the goalies crest. I certainly don't miss that.

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Old
02-25-2013, 08:18 PM
  #739
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post

Liles played his best hockey when he came into the league and played beside a guy like Rob Blake. That really allowed him to creep up and get quite a few goals with that 'backdoor play'. After Blake left, Liles was much less effective. I remember him lugging the puck up the ice and going through some guys only to take a low percentage shot on the goalies crest. I certainly don't miss that.
The Kyle Cumiskey special.

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Old
02-25-2013, 08:45 PM
  #740
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The problem with Liles was that he was a decent player, but I always felt he was one tool short.

He could skate, run the PP decently, and he could pass, but other than that he wasn't particularly useful. He was a guy with too much offensive talent to be a bottom pairing guy, but also a guy without enough tools to really be an effective first/second pairing guy.

Once again, he was one tool short. If he would have had one other weapon in his arsenal, whether that be a shot, the stretch pass, size, whatever he probably could have been one of the better PMD's in the league. That said, he was always a guy who was useless if you limited his minutes, and underwhelming when he was out there.

I say a second was a decent and fair price for him, and somewhere I'm a little glad he's someone else's problem.

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Old
02-25-2013, 08:56 PM
  #741
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There probably were only two options when it came to Liles. Either trade him or keep him until he is 35.

Avs chose the former and Leafs the latter. In hindsight Avs probably made the best decision and Leafs are trying to figure out what to do with him at the moment.

He was a good guy for Avs and I still have a soft spot for him, but I'm not sure you can tie up $4M/year in a guy like that when he's basically a #3-4 guy that might turn into a #5-6 guy sooner than you'd want.

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Old
02-25-2013, 09:13 PM
  #742
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I really hope the Avs buy out Jones this summer. That 4M could be used so much better in other areas, or to get an upgrade at his position (Perry pipe dream).

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Old
02-25-2013, 09:27 PM
  #743
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I really hope the Avs buy out Jones this summer. That 4M could be used so much better in other areas, or to get an upgrade at his position (Perry pipe dream).
I think Kroenke buying out a player is one of the more unlikely things to happen in the next few years. And I don't just mean hockey related.

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Old
02-25-2013, 09:50 PM
  #744
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I really hope the Avs buy out Jones this summer. That 4M could be used so much better in other areas, or to get an upgrade at his position (Perry pipe dream).
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
I think Kroenke buying out a player is one of the more unlikely things to happen in the next few years. And I don't just mean hockey related.
Ya, I don't think that is gonna happen. Especially in the first year of a 4 year deal.

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02-25-2013, 10:28 PM
  #745
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I really hope the Avs buy out Jones this summer. That 4M could be used so much better in other areas, or to get an upgrade at his position (Perry pipe dream).
Whoa, dude, a buyout is not necessary. There's no reason to pay a player to go somewhere else unless the player and his contract are completely immovable and the cap space could be better used somewhere else. Jones could be traded tomorrow, problem is the return wouldn't be good.

A buyout is a last resort. We're nowhere near that point with Jones.

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02-25-2013, 10:34 PM
  #746
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Originally Posted by Seatoo View Post
Would Schroeder and Garrison for PA be more appealing?
From your POV I'd say that's an overpayment. Schroeder could yet be a decent scoring forward, and though Garrison isn't exactly starting out great (a few of my Nucks-fan friends pointed out though that if you break down the #s, Bieksa's the one who's struggling the most) his value to your team at even strength and on the PP is more than anything PAP would bring the Canucks.

The risk to the Avs would be if Schroeder doesn't pan out. Honestly I don't think he's a great fit here anyhow, and Garrison would be a solid addition (contract or no contract, he's a damn good defender), but I'm not sure it's worth losing what we have in PAP. Lose him and we pretty much just have grinders as scoring wingers.

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Old
02-26-2013, 12:12 AM
  #747
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PAP's invaluable to us because he's the only Duchene winger we have, what I mean by that is a creative winger who can hold onto the puck and then feed duchene as he flies around, like Mueller and Flash, these are the wingers Dutchy has excelled with. And PAP's the only one we have right now. If we such enough for Drouin or Sgar ends up on the wing we could have other options but at the moment it's just PAP and maybe Downie when he's healthy again.

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Old
02-26-2013, 12:28 AM
  #748
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I think Kroenke buying out a player is one of the more unlikely things to happen in the next few years. And I don't just mean hockey related.
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Ya, I don't think that is gonna happen. Especially in the first year of a 4 year deal.
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Whoa, dude, a buyout is not necessary. There's no reason to pay a player to go somewhere else unless the player and his contract are completely immovable and the cap space could be better used somewhere else. Jones could be traded tomorrow, problem is the return wouldn't be good.

A buyout is a last resort. We're nowhere near that point with Jones.
I should made it clear that I know it won't actually happen, I just WISH it would.. not that Jones is completely useless, but he is getting paid 2M more than he should be for how he is playing and I don't think he really adds anything we lack to our lineup. Just saying that if money wasn't an issue, I would love to use that 4M elsewhere.

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Old
02-26-2013, 12:49 AM
  #749
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I should made it clear that I know it won't actually happen, I just WISH it would.. not that Jones is completely useless, but he is getting paid 2M more than he should be for how he is playing and I don't think he really adds anything we lack to our lineup. Just saying that if money wasn't an issue, I would love to use that 4M elsewhere.
Your frustration is understandable, and we all pretty much share it. Unfortunately Jones's play so far is no different than what he does every year. He's just not gonna be that guy who can reliably score and play his position well. I think part of the reasoning to keep him was because the Avs just don't have a lot of options when it comes to scoring line wingers, and Jones, when he's on, brings the right balance of speed, grit, and scoring ability. It's just too bad we always have to put up with stretches where he looks completely lost.

I still like Jones, but I sure wish he'd be more consistent. I suppose if he was, he'd have cost a lot more than $4 million per.

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Old
02-26-2013, 01:01 AM
  #750
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Your frustration is understandable, and we all pretty much share it. Unfortunately Jones's play so far is no different than what he does every year. He's just not gonna be that guy who can reliably score and play his position well. I think part of the reasoning to keep him was because the Avs just don't have a lot of options when it comes to scoring line wingers, and Jones, when he's on, brings the right balance of speed, grit, and scoring ability. It's just too bad we always have to put up with stretches where he looks completely lost.

I still like Jones, but I sure wish he'd be more consistent. I suppose if he was, he'd have cost a lot more than $4 million per.
He earned his $4 M when he scored that OT goal.........

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