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Old
02-25-2013, 05:51 PM
  #101
feedingschennzy
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Originally Posted by SchennSational1022 View Post
Shattenkirk please
Sell high on vora?

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02-25-2013, 05:59 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by cdugan View Post
Sell high on vora?
Nah, he's too valuable. While this team needs defense, it also needs wingers, especially big top line-quality wingers. If the Flyers are going to get a top notch defender (which I'm not sure if they will), I think it will be through trading a center (Couturier, Schenn, Laughton, maybe Cousins) and picks.

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02-25-2013, 06:03 PM
  #103
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I think they might be shopping Gus. We could make a pretty good package for a d-man with Gus-Laughton-1st

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02-25-2013, 06:08 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Nah, he's too valuable. While this team needs defense, it also needs wingers, especially big top line-quality wingers. If the Flyers are going to get a top notch defender (which I'm not sure if they will), I think it will be through trading a center (Couturier, Schenn, Laughton, maybe Cousins) and picks.
No one is trading for Cousins until his court case is over.

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02-25-2013, 06:10 PM
  #105
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I don't see St.Louis being interested in Gustaffson.

But at least their fans have been very interested in Coburn for the last two years or so.
I'd love Shattenkirk, but not for Coburn. Right?

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02-25-2013, 06:17 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
I don't see St.Louis being interested in Gustaffson.

But at least their fans have been very interested in Coburn for the last two years or so.
I'd love Shattenkirk, but not for Coburn. Right?
Why not hes a young defensemen with a lesser but similair skillset, who is cost controlled. The only reason shattenkirk would be on the table is because they can't afford to resign both him and Pietrangelo. If they are trading Shatty they are going to want antoher d-man going back and Gus is an upgrade on a guy like Cole

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02-25-2013, 06:40 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by BleedOrange View Post
No one is trading for Cousins until his court case is over.
Yeah that's a good point. Has there been any recent updates on that? Is he facing jail time? I haven't seen anything other than his being charged (sexual assault, I think) back when it happened.

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Old
02-25-2013, 06:45 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Why not hes a young defensemen with a lesser but similair skillset, who is cost controlled. The only reason shattenkirk would be on the table is because they can't afford to resign both him and Pietrangelo. If they are trading Shatty they are going to want antoher d-man going back and Gus is an upgrade on a guy like Cole
St.Louis has a track record of developping quality defensemen. Ian Cole will end up being a steady top 4. He actually is a pretty nice prospect.
Gustaffson on the other hand is a lot like Russel, who's better now and I'm not sure Gustaffson will ever be on his level. They've been looking for a left-handed partner for Pietrangelo forever. Trading Shattenkirk only makes sense if they get something substantial back. Either a quality forward or said defenseman. Since they really shouldn't have a need for a forward you can narrow it down to the defender. That defender on the Flyers is Coburn, whom I'd rather keep.

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02-25-2013, 08:02 PM
  #109
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I seriously think that the Blues are scouting us for our assets and not the other way around. I don't think Shatty or anyone else is available with St Louis looking to be contenders. Maybe Chris Stewart, but he has been playing alright this year. I seriously think they are looking at our players and seeing who might be available. I'm sure Homer has kept teams up to date who he is willing to maybe move if we drop out of the playoff race. If St Louis moves players, I think it will be closer to the draft and off season.

Briere
Feds
Talbot
Grossmann(maybe?)

St Louis needs another defender and a 2nd line center pretty much.

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Old
02-25-2013, 09:05 PM
  #110
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Coburn I think would return a big amount at the deadline. If we move him though, we need to make sure we are getting a good d prospect back and more.

Coburn to the Blues for Ian Cole+1st rounder.

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02-25-2013, 09:21 PM
  #111
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Coburn for Cole + 1st (St. Louis). Briere and Talbot for 1st, 3rd and Hansen (Vancouver). Knuble for a 6th. Bring up Akeson and Noebels.

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Old
02-25-2013, 09:28 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Coburn for Cole + 1st (St. Louis). Briere and Talbot for 1st, 3rd and Hansen (Vancouver). Knuble for a 6th. Bring up Akeson and Noebels.
Coburn's value isn't that high + Knuble has no value, not even a 6th. He was a UFA and nobody signed him this summer.

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02-25-2013, 09:31 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by YuioIklo View Post
Coburn's value isn't that high + Knuble has no value, not even a 6th. He was a UFA and nobody signed him this summer.
Coburn would fetch a good package on the market. He would easily fetch a 1st rounder plus a solid/good prospect. He is also controlled for the next 3 years.

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02-25-2013, 09:33 PM
  #114
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Not ready to firesale. But Coburn needs to go bye-bye if the Flyers continue this Jekyll and Hyde consistency of play. He'd likely bring the best return value of any Flyer, and it's time to move on because he'll never be what the Flyers need him to be.

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02-25-2013, 09:38 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Coburn would fetch a good package on the market. He would easily fetch a 1st rounder plus a solid/good prospect. He is also controlled for the next 3 years.
I like Coburn, but if we could really get a first + a good D prospect, I'd definitely do it. Our D would be weaker short term, though.

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Old
02-25-2013, 11:00 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by YuioIklo View Post
I like Coburn, but if we could really get a first + a good D prospect, I'd definitely do it. Our D would be weaker short term, though.
Honestly, I would not unless that prospect defenseman had the potential to be as good or better than Coburn in the next couple years.

Trading Coburn seems to be an exercise in futility.

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02-25-2013, 11:06 PM
  #117
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I'd love Oshie...of course he's may favorite player in the league, so I'd always love to have him.


Coburn and a 3rd (or something) for Cole and Oshie? Opens a slot for Tarasenko on the top line, and gives Pietrangelo a stay at home #2. This town would love Oshie instantly.

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Old
02-25-2013, 11:08 PM
  #118
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Honestly, I would not unless that prospect defenseman had the potential to be as good or better than Coburn in the next couple years.

Trading Coburn seems to be an exercise in futility.
Well, after thinking about it a little, I'm not sure either. If we sell, it could be an option, cause right now we don't have anyone to sell if we don't make the playoffs. Anyway, we aren't out yet. We'll see at the deadline.

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02-25-2013, 11:13 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by YuioIklo View Post
Well, after thinking about it a little, I'm not sure either. If we sell, it could be an option, cause right now we don't have anyone to sell if we don't make the playoffs. Anyway, we aren't out yet. We'll see at the deadline.
How many drafted defensemen even turn into something as good as Coburn?

So you trade him for a hot d-man with lesser potential, and a 1st that the Flyers could blow on a blueliner that doesn't pan out?

You ride Coburn. He's a clear-cut #2, and he's the kind of guy who will remain solid well past his mid-30s.

Trading Coburn is not realistically an option.

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02-25-2013, 11:23 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
How many drafted defensemen even turn into something as good as Coburn?

So you trade him for a hot d-man with lesser potential, and a 1st that the Flyers could blow on a blueliner that doesn't pan out?

You ride Coburn. He's a clear-cut #2, and he's the kind of guy who will remain solid well past his mid-30s.

Trading Coburn is not realistically an option.
Yeah, plus the fact that Coburn hasn't been injured in the last 5 years. He sure is a very valuable player for us. It depends on who the prospect is, actually. I was thinking of a Jeff Carter type return when I saw first + good prospect. Obviously, the first wouldn't be 8th overall, but still, this draft is very deep.

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02-25-2013, 11:29 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
How many drafted defensemen even turn into something as good as Coburn?

So you trade him for a hot d-man with lesser potential, and a 1st that the Flyers could blow on a blueliner that doesn't pan out?

You ride Coburn. He's a clear-cut #2, and he's the kind of guy who will remain solid well past his mid-30s.

Trading Coburn is not realistically an option.
Coburn is not a clear-cut #2. Until he starts playing consistently like he does at his best, he can't be relied on to be more than a second pairing guy. And we've all been saying that for a couple of years now. I'm not advocating trading him, but he's certainly not at that level.

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02-26-2013, 12:01 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
How many drafted defensemen even turn into something as good as Coburn?

So you trade him for a hot d-man with lesser potential, and a 1st that the Flyers could blow on a blueliner that doesn't pan out?

You ride Coburn. He's a clear-cut #2, and he's the kind of guy who will remain solid well past his mid-30s.

Trading Coburn is not realistically an option.
dude is making 5m with zero offense. What is he going to get on his next deal??. We have 2 similar other d men. If we get a great return, yea he should be in play.

Nobody is saying trade him for scrap.

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02-26-2013, 12:02 AM
  #123
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First post, but I figured I'd chime in here.

Briere, Meszaros, Fedotenko, Foster + the other bad players on 1-year deals are the only players I see being 'sold' unless Holmgren is making a major move. Luke Schenn, Coburn and Grossmann are all 2nd pairing defensemen at best, and Timonen (while not flashy and obviously old) is a very solid top pairing guy for the time being but could dearly use some help. Gustafsson isn't bad and can hopefully play and develop with the big club this year for the time being and be able to solidify the bottom pairing/depth on our defense. Meszaros should hopefully be able to increase his trade value from when he comes back to the trade deadline and be able to fetch something of value because, again, he is really a 2nd pairing defenseman at best and I would like to see him moved out of anybody.

My ideal defense moving forward?

Coburn - <insert two-way defender here with high-end puck moving potential )
Timonen(when retired=UFA signing) - Schenn
Grossmann - Gustafsson
Gervais/Bourdon/etc.


Replacing any of the above mentioned defensemen will be fairly difficult unless we're getting an NHL ready prospect with better upside in the trade as well. I consider Coburn/Schenn key pieces of our defense moving forward, however they are player you use to compliment your higher profile defenders not build your defense around. This team needs a guy who can play big minutes with high-end puck moving skills. Clearly, the current market has a high value on defensemen as the JVR trade has shown so if the Flyers are going to pursue someone it will likely cost a lot. Who would even be available? Winnipeg's Zach Bogosian seems to be solidified as a #3 on the Jets and the Canadiens & Leafs have no shortage of young PMD. Columbus could use some offensive talent and have some nice defenders, and Nashville always have good defense (good luck getting them to do business with us though...). I guess when the deadline comes we'll have a better idea of what kind of players are available.

---

I hope Briere is moved, to be honest. A quality defensive prospect+1st rounder or even more would be a great return considering his age and contract even if he doesn't make much in pure salary. Unless this team goes on to be able to safely postion themselves in the playoffs before the deadline - and I don't mean just 8th/7th place - Holmgren should kick the 'buyers' tires.

A forward core of this isn't bad if Briere isn't moved:

Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Read/Briere - B. Schenn - Simmonds
Talbot - Couturier - Read/Briere
??? - Laughton - Rinaldo


Even keeping Briere there wouldn't be bad, and limiting Briere's even strength minutes and giving him a lot of powerplay time could be manageable. That's honestly what Laviolette should be doing now instead of loading everybody who is scoring onto one unit... and using a guy like Knuble is just ridiculous, and as the extra attacker? FML. Feds is a nice bottom-6 guy and should really be on a line with Talbot and Rinaldo or something. Give Couturier something to work with here... poor guy.

---

Now, onto goaltending, I seriously think the Flyers should wait on using an amnesty buyout on Bryz until after the 2013-14 season. If he still is not worth his contract (likely), amnesty away. In the meantime, I think Holmgren should try and acquire a young, talented back-up who can put pressure on Bryz and hopefully be able to steal the starting role if Bryz is bought out. My ideal target would have been the now game-stealing Ben Bishop who has shot up in value over the past week(s). However, guys like Jake Allen or Matt Hackett (just examples, not sure of availability) would be nice to have behind Bryz. Bishop was had for a 2nd rounder in a draft two years away, so it would be a smarter investment than grabbing a stop-gap defender or forward to try and push for the 8th seed... Just IMO.



Last edited by ahthorne: 02-26-2013 at 12:16 AM.
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Old
02-26-2013, 01:14 AM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
How many drafted defensemen even turn into something as good as Coburn?

So you trade him for a hot d-man with lesser potential, and a 1st that the Flyers could blow on a blueliner that doesn't pan out?

You ride Coburn. He's a clear-cut #2, and he's the kind of guy who will remain solid well past his mid-30s.

Trading Coburn is not realistically an option.
Coburn hasnt been that good this year. I dont know why you are against trading him. Im in if we get a good return. If we can get a prospect like Ian Cole and a 1st? Yes I am doing that. Its not like Coburn is a rare elite talent.
Coburn has not played like a 2. Right now hes middle pairing defender. Until he starts using his skating and size to his advantage on a more consistant basis then i will not pencil him in as an every day 2.

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Old
02-26-2013, 02:47 AM
  #125
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Coburn's value isn't that high + Knuble has no value, not even a 6th. He was a UFA and nobody signed him this summer.
If anything, Coburn's value is higher.
Look aroung the league, there are not many defenders who bring a game like him. Especially in the playoffs. His experience in his age is also a huge asset.
I still wouldn't trade him. Love the guy.

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