HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Canucks purchase the Peoria Rivermen (Post #162)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-24-2013, 08:48 PM
  #26
Hyack57
Registered User
 
Hyack57's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Airdrie, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,274
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
The travel sucks for an Abbotsford team though:

http://www.sportmapworld.com/map/ice...h-america/ahl/


IIRC Abbotsford spends twice as many nights on the road as a team like Chicago.
That Team Map is unreal. It's like Abbotsford stinks like ******* or something and all the other teams just avoid it as far as they can.

Hyack57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2013, 10:18 PM
  #27
Street Hawk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,607
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyack57 View Post
That Team Map is unreal. It's like Abbotsford stinks like ******* or something and all the other teams just avoid it as far as they can.
A lot of posters here don't realize where the other AHL teams are located. Closest team to Abby is the Oklahoma City Barons, a central time zone team.

Personally, I think young players aged 20-24 are better served either doing on ice conditioning (practice) to improve their game (skating, quickness, stick handling) or off ice conditioning (weight lifting to increase leg strength, drills to get quicker, etc.) rather than spending more time traveling.

Unless one day all of the Western Conf teams relocate their AHL affiliates to western time zone cities, I think it's just better to keep the farm team in the East.

There are some teams in the west right now in the AHL. OKC, Milwaukee, Rockford, Houston, San Antonio, Iowa, Abbottsford, Chicago. Basically, the other half of the West would need to move their teams.

Places like Idaho where the Steelheads of the ECHL play. Bakersfield where the ECHL Condors play. Utah used to have a IHL/AHL team. Maybe KC is a possibility?

Don't see it happening though.

Street Hawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2013, 11:13 PM
  #28
Hammer79
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Kelowna
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,975
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abbotsford Heat View Post
I would love to see the Alaska Aces and Utah Grizzlies "move" to the AHL, maybe even a place like Saskatoon if they were willing to give up the Blades and have a western division form that would reduce some of the travel. But that is a pipe dream.
I was hoping that Victoria would have gone the AHL route, but they brought in a WHL team as an anchor tenant. The AHL needs a much more serious expansion plan for the West other than a token team in Abbotsford. Maybe they should consider a merger of the AHL and ECHL if they want to build a national footprint.

Hammer79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-24-2013, 11:50 PM
  #29
archangel archangel
Registered User
 
archangel archangel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,385
vCash: 50
Based upon some comments last year, the flames have been under writing the travel for many teams that came west. I think there is a certain financial aspect to this move.

archangel archangel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 07:22 AM
  #30
SillyRabbit
Trix Are For Kids
 
SillyRabbit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,828
vCash: 500
Once again the Canucks are hurt by the Eastern-centric pro-hockey system.

Teams like the Leafs have their AHL team 30 seconds away from the ACC.

This allows local fans to watch the up-and-coming talent, as well as enabling the Leafs to call up players to cover injuries with ease.

If the Canucks relocated the Wolves to Vancouver, they would have the same luxury, but at the expense of the AHL players who would then be subject to an even more brutal travel schedule than the Canucks.

This may not seem like a huge deal, but it's definitely something nice to have, as the AHL team would then have access to the best facilities and staff possible.

I remember watching a Philadelphia Flyers playoff game a few years back where they recalled a defenseman from the Philadelphia Phantoms after one of the Flyers was hurt during the morning practice. Since the Phantoms are based out of Philly, the player was able to make it into the lineup with time to spare. If that happened to the Canucks, we'd be playing with 5 d-men.

SillyRabbit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 12:00 PM
  #31
silvercanuck
Registered User
 
silvercanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcrazycanuck View Post
Based upon some comments last year, the flames have been under writing the travel for many teams that came west. I think there is a certain financial aspect to this move.
The city of Abbotsford underwrites all losses and subsidizes travel. It obviously says something if the Flames want to get out of a sweetheart deal like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SillyRabbit View Post
Once again the Canucks are hurt by the Eastern-centric pro-hockey system.

Teams like the Leafs have their AHL team 30 seconds away from the ACC.

This allows local fans to watch the up-and-coming talent, as well as enabling the Leafs to call up players to cover injuries with ease.

If the Canucks relocated the Wolves to Vancouver, they would have the same luxury, but at the expense of the AHL players who would then be subject to an even more brutal travel schedule than the Canucks.

This may not seem like a huge deal, but it's definitely something nice to have, as the AHL team would then have access to the best facilities and staff possible.

I remember watching a Philadelphia Flyers playoff game a few years back where they recalled a defenseman from the Philadelphia Phantoms after one of the Flyers was hurt during the morning practice. Since the Phantoms are based out of Philly, the player was able to make it into the lineup with time to spare. If that happened to the Canucks, we'd be playing with 5 d-men.
The Heat would more than likely be on the road if Vancouver needed a call up anyway.

I don't see any benefit to moving Vancouver's farm team to Abbotsford. They have far more travel than any other AHL team, less practice time, and more injuries. The only benefit would be that a few fans get to go to local AHL games. It's not worth it.

silvercanuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 12:50 PM
  #32
Bleach Clean
Moderator
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 16,291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
The city of Abbotsford underwrites all losses and subsidizes travel. It obviously says something if the Flames want to get out of a sweetheart deal like that.



The Heat would more than likely be on the road if Vancouver needed a call up anyway.

I don't see any benefit to moving Vancouver's farm team to Abbotsford. They have far more travel than any other AHL team, less practice time, and more injuries. The only benefit would be that a few fans get to go to local AHL games. It's not worth it.


Disagree. The significant benefit attached to this is that the Canucks would own the team and so could micromanage their affiliate. Similar to what DET does with the Griffins. They are known to run their team with a great amount of drafted players, as opposed to AHL vets, which could not be done in a partnership agreement with an un-attached affiliate. Say, like the Wolves.

It also allows them to work more closely with their prospects. Seeing as how they're in the backyard.

Most importantly, however, is that it creates a great revenue stream for Aqua. He will make money on something like this, it's all but assured. Aside from the hockey aspect, the business aspect is very sound.

About the injuries: Odds are that this will be the first priority in changing methods to alleviate injury concerns. For a progressive thinker like Gillis, it's more a challenge than a deterrent.

Bleach Clean is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 01:09 PM
  #33
Taelin
Moderator
Resident Hipster
 
Taelin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,432
vCash: 500
Elliott Pap @ElliottPap
Quote:
Wolves GM Wendell Young on where Canuck AHL farmhands might play next season: "Vancouver is not saying 'no' and not saying 'yes'."
What does that mean?

Taelin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 01:36 PM
  #34
silvercanuck
Registered User
 
silvercanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Disagree. The significant benefit attached to this is that the Canucks would own the team and so could micromanage their affiliate. Similar to what DET does with the Griffins. They are known to run their team with a great amount of drafted players, as opposed to AHL vets, which could not be done in a partnership agreement with an un-attached affiliate. Say, like the Wolves.

It also allows them to work more closely with their prospects. Seeing as how they're in the backyard.

Most importantly, however, is that it creates a great revenue stream for Aqua. He will make money on something like this, it's all but assured. Aside from the hockey aspect, the business aspect is very sound.

About the injuries: Odds are that this will be the first priority in changing methods to alleviate injury concerns. For a progressive thinker like Gillis, it's more a challenge than a deterrent.
It would be great if the Canucks could own a team but I don't see a lot of AHL teams for sale or without an affiliate. Where is this AHL team going to come from?

Again, I'm going say this: what about practice time, injuries, and player development? There's a reason why the Flames want to move their farm team out of Abbotsford, and it has nothing to do with the locals not taking to the team or finances. The Flames have full control of their AHL team in their back yard but this setup is not benefiting the big club. The team spends too much time traveling and they do not get enough practice time. Most concerning is that the Heat are not developing players.

The only benefit to putting a farm team in the Canucks back yard is the business aspect. If the Canucks want to actually develop players Abbotsford is the worst possible scenario.

silvercanuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 01:42 PM
  #35
rebel diamond
Registered User
 
rebel diamond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Toronto
Country: Trinidad and Tobago
Posts: 5,045
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Disagree. The significant benefit attached to this is that the Canucks would own the team and so could micromanage their affiliate. Similar to what DET does with the Griffins. They are known to run their team with a great amount of drafted players, as opposed to AHL vets, which could not be done in a partnership agreement with an un-attached affiliate. Say, like the Wolves.

It also allows them to work more closely with their prospects. Seeing as how they're in the backyard.

Most importantly, however, is that it creates a great revenue stream for Aqua. He will make money on something like this, it's all but assured. Aside from the hockey aspect, the business aspect is very sound.

About the injuries: Odds are that this will be the first priority in changing methods to alleviate injury concerns. For a progressive thinker like Gillis, it's more a challenge than a deterrent.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but a couple caveats:
The Canucks had a great partnership and working relationship with the Moose, a team they did not own. It's not totally necessary to own your affiliate to develop talent well. As for the business case, I'm not sure it's as much of a slam dunk as you suggest. The travel costs are killer, and if the Heat pull out of their deal in Abbotsford who knows if the new Nucks farm team (The Orcas?) would get the same sweetheart deal. And finally, I don't see Gillis being able to wave his magic wand and solve the injury problems, since he hasn't been able to do the same for the big team.

rebel diamond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 01:44 PM
  #36
rebel diamond
Registered User
 
rebel diamond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Toronto
Country: Trinidad and Tobago
Posts: 5,045
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taelin View Post
Elliott Pap @ElliottPap


What does that mean?
That Gillis won't commit to renewing the affiliation agreement with the Wolves?

Seems to me that the best possible scenario would be a new AHL team owned by the Canucks located somewhere like Kansas City.

rebel diamond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 01:50 PM
  #37
Taelin
Moderator
Resident Hipster
 
Taelin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,432
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel diamond View Post
That Gillis won't commit to renewing the affiliation agreement with the Wolves?

Seems to me that the best possible scenario would be a new AHL team owned by the Canucks located somewhere like Kansas City.
That's for the clarification...my brain's not really working right now from my cold medication.

That would be ideal, I guess. We can oversee everything that happens with the club, and the travel won't be as horrible as Abby.

Taelin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 04:22 PM
  #38
silvercanuck
Registered User
 
silvercanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,229
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel diamond View Post
That Gillis won't commit to renewing the affiliation agreement with the Wolves?

Seems to me that the best possible scenario would be a new AHL team owned by the Canucks located somewhere like Kansas City.
Kansas sounds like a good idea if they can't do something like Saskatoon.

silvercanuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 04:42 PM
  #39
Bleach Clean
Moderator
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 16,291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
It would be great if the Canucks could own a team but I don't see a lot of AHL teams for sale or without an affiliate. Where is this AHL team going to come from?

Again, I'm going say this: what about practice time, injuries, and player development? There's a reason why the Flames want to move their farm team out of Abbotsford, and it has nothing to do with the locals not taking to the team or finances. The Flames have full control of their AHL team in their back yard but this setup is not benefiting the big club. The team spends too much time traveling and they do not get enough practice time. Most concerning is that the Heat are not developing players.

The only benefit to putting a farm team in the Canucks back yard is the business aspect. If the Canucks want to actually develop players Abbotsford is the worst possible scenario.

I don't think you can make a conclusion on development. Just because the Flames haven't been able to develop talent on the farm, doesn't mean the Canucks will not be able to. Causal relationship is not evident.

Injuries and practice time, I would imagine, would be front and centre on the evaluation agenda by the Canucks. If it is enough of a deterrent, based on their assessment, they won't pursue it. Business men after all.

The other factor here may just be the Arena owners pushing the Heat to vacate because they can't suffer losses like they have anymore. That is a factor. Sure, the Flames could keep them locked into a terrible deal, but a partnership like that isn't good for anyone when there's a clear loser. That has to have something to do with this...


Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel diamond View Post
I'm not disagreeing with you, but a couple caveats:
The Canucks had a great partnership and working relationship with the Moose, a team they did not own. It's not totally necessary to own your affiliate to develop talent well. As for the business case, I'm not sure it's as much of a slam dunk as you suggest. The travel costs are killer, and if the Heat pull out of their deal in Abbotsford who knows if the new Nucks farm team (The Orcas?) would get the same sweetheart deal. And finally, I don't see Gillis being able to wave his magic wand and solve the injury problems, since he hasn't been able to do the same for the big team.

It's not necessary to own your affiliate, but it helps IMO. The choices made to fill out the roster can have a great effect on finding more talent. It wasn't a big deal when Heizinger was finding more talent than the big club. Yet, there are some AHL teams that have winning and not prospect development as a mandate. In such cases, there will always be a compromise instead of a direct vision.

The injury concerns will have to be ironed out. A plan put in place. What pushes the Heat out of town will have to be rectified by the Orca's. My guess is, injuries and travel costs are being factored in by the brass before they make a purchase like this. It's all part of evaluating the move...

Bleach Clean is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 05:31 PM
  #40
silvercanuck
Registered User
 
silvercanuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,229
vCash: 500
If the Canucks were really interested in Abbotsford why didn't they buy an AHL franchise back in 2009 and move them then? They would have gotten the same sweetheart deal as the Flames but they said no when the city asked. The Canucks would have also known that the Moose ownership were looking to buy an NHL team and that their affiliate status would be up in the air in the future. Securing a team then with a sweetheart lease would have made sense, but obviously it was not attractive enough.

I'm sure Gillis has gone over the pros and cons and decided that putting a team in Abbotsford is not beneficial to the Canucks. It's clear that he's concerned with travel already so it's not hard to see why he wouldn't want to burden his minor league team with an even worse scenario.

silvercanuck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 05:36 PM
  #41
Mr. Canucklehead
Mod Supervisor
Kitimat Canuck
 
Mr. Canucklehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Kitimat, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 24,529
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taelin View Post
Elliott Pap @ElliottPap


What does that mean?
Apart from the Canucks being noncommital, I would guess it means that they are exploring their options? Of which, if the rumors are true, the Heat may well be one?

Mr. Canucklehead is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 06:00 PM
  #42
Bleach Clean
Moderator
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 16,291
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by silvercanuck View Post
If the Canucks were really interested in Abbotsford why didn't they buy an AHL franchise back in 2009 and move them then? They would have gotten the same sweetheart deal as the Flames but they said no when the city asked. The Canucks would have also known that the Moose ownership were looking to buy an NHL team and that their affiliate status would be up in the air in the future. Securing a team then with a sweetheart lease would have made sense, but obviously it was not attractive enough.

I'm sure Gillis has gone over the pros and cons and decided that putting a team in Abbotsford is not beneficial to the Canucks. It's clear that he's concerned with travel already so it's not hard to see why he wouldn't want to burden his minor league team with an even worse scenario.

You are assuming first that the Moose ownership were looking to buy a team at that time (hindsight bias), and again that they were going to be able to complete such a deal at that time. At that time, it was clear, that the Moose were a more attractive option than Abby. So why move?

It would see you are really invested in them not going to Abbotsford, so I won't bother arguing the point with you. I would like it to happen, but it's not a big deal to me. As it stands right now, we have a suspect report of a Flames deal with Utica, a prior report citing Aqua's interest in Abby, and a lukewarm stance by Gillis to commit to the Wolves... So people are just putting the pieces together. Could be they're wrong, could be they're not...

Bleach Clean is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 10:49 PM
  #43
TTOMO
Registered User
 
TTOMO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Port Moody, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,190
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel diamond View Post
That Gillis won't commit to renewing the affiliation agreement with the Wolves?

Seems to me that the best possible scenario would be a new AHL team owned by the Canucks located somewhere like Kansas City.
That sounds pretty good, actually. It would also be an opportunity for the Sprint Center to have a team (Granted, I hear they do pretty well without an anchor tenant.).

TTOMO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 11:26 PM
  #44
mriswith
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 348
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rebel diamond View Post
Seems to me that the best possible scenario would be a new AHL team owned by the Canucks located somewhere like Kansas City.
Agreed 100%.

It'd be fun to watch the kids play, but I do think injuries would become more of a problem.

mriswith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-25-2013, 11:33 PM
  #45
kaiser matias
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,036
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodgy View Post
People need to remember that Acquillini owns Rogers Arena and that the Canucks are currently the only tenant. They rent it out for concerts and other events, but it sits empty for a lot of the year. As a result, in the long term it is likely that the Canucks would much prefer to have their AHL affiliate playing out of Rogers Arena, and not Abbotsford.
It doesn't really make much financial sense to have an Aquilini-owned team in Rogers Arena. Even if it averaged 10,000 people per game, it makes more sense for them to rent the arena out for a concert or what for a night or so, or even leave the arena empty for a night.

kaiser matias is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 12:07 AM
  #46
GJB
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Sweden
Posts: 925
vCash: 500
They have almost 1000 fans already on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/UticaFlamesFanClub

GJB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 12:32 AM
  #47
JuniorNelson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: E.Vancouver
Country: Australia-Aboriginal
Posts: 5,060
vCash: 2061
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiser matias View Post
It doesn't really make much financial sense to have an Aquilini-owned team in Rogers Arena. Even if it averaged 10,000 people per game, it makes more sense for them to rent the arena out for a concert or what for a night or so, or even leave the arena empty for a night.
I agree Abottsford is too small for a Canuck's affiliate. I disagree that Rogers arena is not economically viable. Ten thousand tickets at twenty bucks each is two hundred thousand. Thirty eight regular season home games and you are running into serious money. It is also understood that the crowd spends money while they are in the building. In fact I think ten thousand per game is erroneous, I'd expect sell-outs every game.

JuniorNelson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 12:44 AM
  #48
Apu
GotOutOfABinTime!
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Poco
Country: Kazakhstan
Posts: 356
vCash: 500
Regardless of where the new Nucks affiliate may be playing, the Flames must cover up all the financial costs, such as paying Abby for ending the lease of the arena early, before Aquilini purchases the Heat.

It's not really surprising to see Gillis being non-commital to the Wolves given Chicago's preference of fielding a competitive team every year vs. developing the Canucks prospects.

Apu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 04:11 AM
  #49
Canadian Gold X3
It is what it is.
 
Canadian Gold X3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Nanaimo B.C
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,667
vCash: 500
http://www.theprovince.com/sports/ho...medium=twitter
Interesting

Canadian Gold X3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 11:32 AM
  #50
kevinsane
Lundqvist clone.
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dawson Creek, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,512
vCash: 500
Aquilini farm company tops list of those fined byWork Safe BC.
Yeah, he'll cut down on injuries. Suuuuure.

kevinsane is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:06 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.