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Should Thornton be traded?

View Poll Results: Should Joe Thornton be traded?
Yes 27 20.77%
No 86 66.15%
Not sure 17 13.08%
Voters: 130. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-25-2013, 05:54 PM
  #101
SJeasy
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
Didn't Sutter just win a cup?
I knew someone would bring it up. He was out of the coaching game a long time and he did something out of character when he returned. It was "innovative" for the Kings. I don't think Sutter is that good and we will wait for the end of the season to confirm or deny my impression. IMO, the Kings could easily miss the playoffs for the same old reasons of why Sutter is not an elite coach. Just FYI, there was an article long ago of how Sutter left the PP strategy up to the players during the Nolan era and that PP struggled mightily.

Even Hitch has modified some of his style although I think he has run out of tricks as well.

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02-25-2013, 05:55 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Swedish GP View Post
I dont disagree about the players, we have a fantastic lineup but there are a few guys that should be moved and only to shake up the team. Marleau, Havlat, Clowe to name a few. Coaching staff needs to be changed up a bit. Too bad Mr. Robinson said he doesnt wanna be HC. Notice I didnt say any D men or the goalies? We just need a couple or maybe just one different forward to give this lineup a different look. People hold this core in too high of a regard sometimes. Why are people so afraid to be a builder or a suck team? Its going to happen eventually. I just think the current setup has run its course. I for one want to see some new talent. Kennedy has been a breath of fresh air. More please...
Why trade one of the only consistent forwards?

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02-25-2013, 07:14 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
Adding to Jux's Marleau response, you don't just pull names of coaches out of the air. You do realize that NJ has had a better start without Robinson rather than with, moveover with a lesser lineup sans Parise. The evidence is not so much in Robinson's favor. Coaching improvement goes to the innovators, not the same old recycled names. Take note of Calgary which is giving Hartley his 3rd or 4th spin cycle; not so good. Get a recycled name to feel a security blanket, but don't do it if you expect a favorable change in your team's fortunes.

We all know something is wrong, but the answers are not simplistic as you would propose.
Its all what ifs anyway, I never really purported that I knew the answers.

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02-25-2013, 07:16 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
Why trade one of the only consistent forwards?
I cant stand Marleau any longer. He will disappear again after going through another hot streak. Lets get someone with some real heart and determination. Sorry Im ready for change, if your not then we will just see the same ol gang. To each his own...

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02-25-2013, 07:28 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by Swedish GP View Post
I cant stand Marleau any longer. He will disappear again after going through another hot streak. Lets get someone with some real heart and determination. Sorry Im ready for change, if your not then we will just see the same ol gang. To each his own...
How about Pavelski? Couture? They've been much more streaky than Marleau this season. In fact, if I were to look at reasons the Sharks are failing this season, Marleau would be the second to last reason on the list.

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02-25-2013, 07:28 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by SpinTheBlackCircle View Post
If you deal Joe, you have to trade Marleau, Boyle, Havlat and Clowe. You are either all in or all out.
+1, yeah buddy.

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02-25-2013, 08:23 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Swedish GP View Post
Its all what ifs anyway, I never really purported that I knew the answers.
You "know" the answer in your statements regards Marleau. He is so far from being the issue that it isn't even funny anymore. Simple metrics say he is one the top 10 most consistent goal scorers in the league even in the playoffs no matter which way you care to define consistency. (The simple test is frequency of hat tricks for players who produce goals at the same rate, the lower the hat trick frequency, the more consistent the player. Patty has the fewest hat tricks of that crowd.) Other lesser metrics fall as heavily in his favor even in the slump. The only other player with metrics as strong as Marleau's is Niemi right now. Find someone else to blame. As a forum we are fairly strong on rationality. We won't quibble with your dislike of his persona, but please do not confuse persona with play on the ice.

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02-25-2013, 08:29 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
How about Pavelski? Couture? They've been much more streaky than Marleau this season. In fact, if I were to look at reasons the Sharks are failing this season, Marleau would be the second to last reason on the list.
I disagree. Marleau has been fairly consistent, but Couture has been the most consistent forward this season. And he's been attached to Clowe at the hip.

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02-25-2013, 08:33 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Swedish GP View Post
I cant stand Marleau any longer. He will disappear again after going through another hot streak. Lets get someone with some real heart and determination. Sorry Im ready for change, if your not then we will just see the same ol gang. To each his own...
So why not single out Pavelski who has been absolutely invisible? If anyone is a moveable piece..its him.

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02-25-2013, 08:35 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by WTFetus View Post
I disagree. Marleau has been fairly consistent, but Couture has been the most consistent forward this season. And he's been attached to Clowe at the hip.
I'll buy an argument being there. But Marleau's been at least the second most consistent forward this season, so this guy's argument has no water.

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02-25-2013, 09:14 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Swedish GP View Post
I cant stand Marleau any longer. He will disappear again after going through another hot streak. Lets get someone with some real heart and determination. Sorry Im ready for change, if your not then we will just see the same ol gang. To each his own...


That awkward moment when Marleau has probably been the most consistent and best skater on the team. He's our fastest forward, and probably the best at this point.

If Marleau is traded, it means the whole team is being blown up and a re-build is occurring.

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02-25-2013, 09:37 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
You "know" the answer in your statements regards Marleau. He is so far from being the issue that it isn't even funny anymore. Simple metrics say he is one the top 10 most consistent goal scorers in the league even in the playoffs no matter which way you care to define consistency. (The simple test is frequency of hat tricks for players who produce goals at the same rate, the lower the hat trick frequency, the more consistent the player. Patty has the fewest hat tricks of that crowd.) Other lesser metrics fall as heavily in his favor even in the slump. The only other player with metrics as strong as Marleau's is Niemi right now. Find someone else to blame. As a forum we are fairly strong on rationality. We won't quibble with your dislike of his persona, but please do not confuse persona with play on the ice.
I never said Patty was the problem, rather I dont want him on the team. Simple.

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02-25-2013, 09:38 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Swedish GP View Post
I never said Patty was the problem, rather I dont want him on the team. Simple.
That's a good way to make the team better. Get rid of someone that isn't the problem and keep guys that are. Smart plan.

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02-25-2013, 09:39 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan View Post
So why not single out Pavelski who has been absolutely invisible? If anyone is a moveable piece..its him.
Im for trading anyone thats not named Niemi, Jumbo, Cooter, Pickles, Burns or Stuey. Im sure I missed a couple in there. Throw in Tmac as one to let go

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02-25-2013, 09:41 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by The Great 88 View Post


That awkward moment when Marleau has probably been the most consistent and best skater on the team. He's our fastest forward, and probably the best at this point.

If Marleau is traded, it means the whole team is being blown up and a re-build is occurring.
Please do...

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02-25-2013, 09:42 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Swedish GP View Post
Im for trading anyone thats not named Niemi, Jumbo, Cooter, Pickles, Burns or Stuey. Im sure I missed a couple in there. Throw in Tmac as one to let go
One of those guys is actually a big part of the problem.

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02-25-2013, 09:46 PM
  #117
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Don't think they should actively try to trade him, but if the right offer came along I wouldn't be opposed to it.

I wonder if ownership would allow DW to down it, Thornton is also a big marketing piece.

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02-25-2013, 09:58 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
That's a good way to make the team better. Get rid of someone that isn't the problem and keep guys that are. Smart plan.
Yeah. Don't worry about who's good at hockey. Trade the guy because, well, I just don't like him.

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02-25-2013, 10:00 PM
  #119
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I would probably stop watching the Sharks if they traded Thornton. Can't really rationalize it, but I know I'd be a whole lot less interested in the team.

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02-25-2013, 10:16 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
That's a good way to make the team better. Get rid of someone that isn't the problem and keep guys that are. Smart plan.
Marleau is a good speedy winger who has been pretty consistent. But I have a feeling keeping him over Jumbo (if we could keep only one of the two) would be counter-productive. Jumbo can lead the team and also act as an elite playmaker. Possibly the only one we would have on our team.

Also, Marleau may be the speediest player on the team right now but the main point going younger would be to get more speed in the top-6 via the draft or trades. Keep Thornton and Couture in the top-6 and surround each of them with speedy wingers.

Theoretically, you can keep both Patty and Jumbo but that would defeat the purpose of the 'rebuild'.

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02-25-2013, 11:07 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Fistfullofbeer View Post
Marleau is a good speedy winger who has been pretty consistent. But I have a feeling keeping him over Jumbo (if we could keep only one of the two) would be counter-productive. Jumbo can lead the team and also act as an elite playmaker. Possibly the only one we would have on our team.

Also, Marleau may be the speediest player on the team right now but the main point going younger would be to get more speed in the top-6 via the draft or trades. Keep Thornton and Couture in the top-6 and surround each of them with speedy wingers.

Theoretically, you can keep both Patty and Jumbo but that would defeat the purpose of the 'rebuild'.
I'm not a proponent for rebuilding right now. Only when DW is fired would I be for that. I wouldn't trust Doug Wilson to make the appropriate trades if that was the direction the team went in.

However, I've seen enough of Marleau to know that he can go through a rebuild and be productive in terms of helping others along while not getting in the way or having to be catered to in terms of play-style. He will play whatever role and be a positive influence.

I can't say the same for Thornton. I feel he is too dominant of a personality in conjunction with his play-style to allow for a changing of the guard so to speak while maintaining a positive influence in the room.

But it's moot because as long as DW is in charge, a rebuild isn't happening nor should it. Besides, Thornton only goes when he asks for it. I think the team would have to miss the playoffs entirely for Thornton to even consider that.

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02-25-2013, 11:12 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
I can't say the same for Thornton. I feel he is too dominant of a personality in conjunction with his play-style to allow for a changing of the guard so to speak while maintaining a positive influence in the room.
What in the history of Joe Thornton leads you to believe he is unwilling to adapt his play-style to what is seen as beneficial to the team?

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02-25-2013, 11:19 PM
  #123
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What in the history of Joe Thornton leads you to believe he is unwilling to adapt his play-style to what is seen as beneficial to the team?
I've made my argument before and it's pointless for this discussion to repeat it. In the context of this discussion, no he shouldn't be traded until they rebuild and even then, it has to be at his request.

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02-26-2013, 12:26 AM
  #124
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Patrick Kane is a ****** bag off of the ice.

I definitely would not trade Douglas Murray for Kane, Murray is a good guy and he seems nice. I hate Patrick Kane and he is a major jerk.

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02-26-2013, 12:32 AM
  #125
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What in the history of Joe Thornton leads you to believe he is unwilling to adapt his play-style to what is seen as beneficial to the team?
It's not that he can't adjust his style of play or type of role on the team, it's that he won't take a lesser role on the team, I would be willing to be. He's a superstar, what do you think would happen if the coaches came up to him and said, 'Joe, we're going to cut your ice time to help develop this kid we just drafted first overall'?

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