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Future of Goaltending in Ottawa?

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Old
02-26-2013, 02:04 AM
  #26
BonkTastic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savannah Skunk View Post
I hope we draft another goal tender prospect. There should always be irons in the fire.
We should be using one "5th-6th-7th round"-range pick on a goalie every year.

European, if possible. Let them develop overseas, where you don't need to use a roster spot on your AHL club if they'd rather stay and develop at home.

Goalies are phenomenally unpredictable to peg in a draft year... they develop WAY later than skaters do. Sometimes, "18 years old" is just not old enough to properly evaluate a goalie, their true skill level sometimes doesn't become evident until they're in their early 20's.
(this is a general guideline, obviously there will be some exceptions)

Statistically you are just as likely to find an NHL goalie in the first three rounds as you are the last four. Late round picks spent on goalies are as safe a pick as you'll ever make.

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02-26-2013, 02:09 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
We should be using one "5th-6th-7th round"-range pick on a goalie every year.

European, if possible. Let them develop overseas, where you don't need to use a roster spot on your AHL club if they'd rather stay and develop at home.

Goalies are phenomenally unpredictable to peg in a draft year... they develop WAY later than skaters do. Sometimes, "18 years old" is just not old enough to properly evaluate a goalie, their true skill level sometimes doesn't become evident until they're in their early 20's.
(this is a general guideline, obviously there will be some exceptions)

Statistically you are just as likely to find an NHL goalie in the first three rounds as you are the last four. Late round picks spent on goalies are as safe a pick as you'll ever make.
they changed the rules again this CBA, but for the past 7 years, the fear with european goalies was that they were more likely to turn UFA before they were ready for you.

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02-26-2013, 02:27 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
they changed the rules again this CBA, but for the past 7 years, the fear with european goalies was that they were more likely to turn UFA before they were ready for you.
Yep, they changed it again in the new CBA, which is why I think it's a good idea to take advantage of the new rules to it's fullest extent:

"NHL Clubs who draft European Players age 18 or 19 shall obtain four (4) years of exclusive negotiating rights following selection in the Draft."

Late round picks should be focused on taking Euros & college kids. You get their rights, effectively, for 4 years each, whereas Major Junior players you only get the two. For late round picks, having those extra two years to keep an eye on a kid before offering him a contract is a huge advantage for a GM.

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02-26-2013, 03:23 AM
  #29
GreatStateofHockey
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I'll just say this. We've seen for far too long, the rise and fall of our goaltenders.

Both Bishop and Anderson are posting unreal numbers right now, which I think is more of the system than their actual skill. I think both have the ability to be top 10 starters, but not capable of winning a Vezina. We are playing a VERY defensive system right now.

Just look at Steve Mason , system changed and he fell flat on his face.

Lehner has been unreal at both levels (Only 5 games in OTT though), and won the AHL playoff MVP 2 years ago. I'm confident he would be posting insanely high numbers here as well. If we can get a young top 6 player for Bishop, we have to take it.

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02-26-2013, 03:54 AM
  #30
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Has Lehner ACTUALLY said he won't resign with us if he's not in the big team or are you just speculating?

Quite frankly, I'd happily keep Bish and Andy up here next season too...

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02-26-2013, 04:28 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beville View Post
Has Lehner ACTUALLY said he won't resign with us if he's not in the big team or are you just speculating?

Quite frankly, I'd happily keep Bish and Andy up here next season too...
no, i think it is all just speculation based on lehner trying to prove group IV FA this summer. He doesnt want to leave, he just wants a 1-way contract to get out of bingo and into his NHL career.

bottom line is that we have to choose: bishop or lehner this summer. All signs point to lehner staying and bishop leaving, but then again, it all depends on how they play until then and what GM's are offering.

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02-26-2013, 06:24 AM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatStateofHockey View Post
I'll just say this. We've seen for far too long, the rise and fall of our goaltenders.

Both Bishop and Anderson are posting unreal numbers right now, which I think is more of the system than their actual skill. I think both have the ability to be top 10 starters, but not capable of winning a Vezina. We are playing a VERY defensive system right now.

Just look at Steve Mason , system changed and he fell flat on his face.

Lehner has been unreal at both levels (Only 5 games in OTT though), and won the AHL playoff MVP 2 years ago. I'm confident he would be posting insanely high numbers here as well. If we can get a young top 6 player for Bishop, we have to take it.
Agreed.

I find it highly unlikely that we actually have 2 superstar netminders on our current roster with Bishop and Anderson. It reminds me alot of St. Louis last year that made 2 journeymen look like stars. It's darned near impossible to say how much of it is our netminders, how much is luck, how much is desperation, and where the system fits in....not to mention catching some teams off guard and having a lockout schedule that turns everythign topsy turvy.

Bishop wasn't exactly lighting the league on fire last year, and Anderson wasn't great for Colorado. There's a much better sample size to suggest Anderson is a strong starting netminder for us, but Bishop......I'd say the smart money right now would be to trade Bishop this season when his value is high.

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02-26-2013, 06:50 AM
  #33
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Been following this team since the beginning and suffered through goaltending so incapable that teams which should have won Cups were getting knocked out in the first round. Never would have imagined the dilemma we have now.

I hope all the Murray haters have been silenced for good. Listening to "giving up a 2nd for him was terrible asset management" and "how can you pick a skinny kid from Sweden to play D in the first round" type of comments are done for from now on.

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02-26-2013, 06:52 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlapJack View Post
I hope all the Murray haters have been silenced for good. Listening to "giving up a 2nd for him was terrible asset management" and "how can you pick a skinny kid from Sweden to play D in the first round" type of comments are done for from now on.
Most people were pretty positive regarding the Bishop trade.

Especially considering how teams like the Leafs suffered so much with bad goaltending at the end of last season.

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02-26-2013, 06:57 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
Agreed.

I find it highly unlikely that we actually have 2 superstar netminders on our current roster with Bishop and Anderson. It reminds me alot of St. Louis last year that made 2 journeymen look like stars. It's darned near impossible to say how much of it is our netminders, how much is luck, how much is desperation, and where the system fits in....not to mention catching some teams off guard and having a lockout schedule that turns everythign topsy turvy.

Bishop wasn't exactly lighting the league on fire last year, and Anderson wasn't great for Colorado. There's a much better sample size to suggest Anderson is a strong starting netminder for us, but Bishop......I'd say the smart money right now would be to trade Bishop this season when his value is high.
Difference being, even if we all think we are playing a great defensive system, we are still giving up close to the most shots against in the league at around 32 per game.

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02-26-2013, 07:00 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beville View Post
Has Lehner ACTUALLY said he won't resign with us if he's not in the big team or are you just speculating?

Quite frankly, I'd happily keep Bish and Andy up here next season too...
Totally agree.

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Old
02-26-2013, 07:13 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Straka View Post
I think I am in the minority of people that don't want Bishop traded at all this season... and to be honest... I quite like the 1-2 punch we have. I'm not as gung ho about Lehner being the franchice goalie of the present/future.
This is how I've felt for a while. With the Anderson has been playing and now Bishop...it's hard to see a logical reason to bring Lehner into the fold. You just don't take out two of the hottest goalies in the league. Unless the goaltending completely blows up I really don't know what they have planned for this situation, but I have to say it's a good situation to be in. Ottawa is no longer a goaltender graveyard which is nice.

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02-26-2013, 07:14 AM
  #38
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Well, given the ages of the players, it's optimum for us to go with Lehner and Anderson from an asset management perspective.

I don't see Bishop as any more proven than Lehner at this point.

Just don't lose Bishop to someone in our conference.

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Old
02-26-2013, 07:49 AM
  #39
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This season we just play Bishop enough this season to retain RFA while giving Lehner a game or two, rest of starts going to Andy. No reason to trade either of them yet, can easily delay this decision to next season and get a better idea of which one we should keep.

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02-26-2013, 08:04 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreatStateofHockey View Post
I'll just say this. We've seen for far too long, the rise and fall of our goaltenders.

Both Bishop and Anderson are posting unreal numbers right now, which I think is more of the system than their actual skill. I think both have the ability to be top 10 starters, but not capable of winning a Vezina. We are playing a VERY defensive system right now.

Just look at Steve Mason , system changed and he fell flat on his face.

Lehner has been unreal at both levels (Only 5 games in OTT though), and won the AHL playoff MVP 2 years ago. I'm confident he would be posting insanely high numbers here as well. If we can get a young top 6 player for Bishop, we have to take it.
Ottawa has 3 AHL defenceman and 2 aging vets. We are not a "defensive system." We allow the third most shots in the league. The only two that allow more are Edmonton and Buffalo. Our system is "Work your ass off and hope the goalie bails us out"

A defensive system team is like STL who are 1st in goals against with 22.9 s/g compared to Ottawa's 32.2

We are suppose to be a puck possession team that focuses around Karlsson/Spezza/Michalek. When you don't have them, well it kinda falls apart

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02-26-2013, 08:10 AM
  #41
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IMO Bishop's trade value will highest at the trade deadline if multiple teams have injured goalies. Going into camp next year with all 3 goalies and trading the loser is a mistake value wise.

What does everyone think the values of all 3 goalies are now?

Bishop- 2nd and mid prospect
Lehner- 1st round pick (8-12) range
Anderson- top 6 forward or top four d-man late first round pick and a mid prospect

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02-26-2013, 09:12 AM
  #42
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We carry three goalies next year. Anderson plays 40 games with Bishop and Lehner each playing around 20. Am I the only one who thinks this is a good idea?

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02-26-2013, 09:14 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tundraman View Post
Imagine you are Lehner and you look at who is ahead of you. Anderson and Bishop both playing like allstars. You either despair or work your butt off showing that you belong in the same or better goaltender class than those 2 guys.

How strong is Lehner and how will he respond to the challenge? That's the million dollar question for me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quo View Post
A good question but I wouldn't bet against the kid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReginKarlssonLehner View Post
If you know Lehner, you'll know that his competition level is second to none.
Lehner is, at best, 3-4 years away from a starting job. He can work all he wants and I agree that it's a nice problem to have, but we have two solid veterans in the lineup. He can jump in there if there's an injury but I'll take veteran smarts and instincts over a kid who makes foolish decisions anyday. I can't believe with the way Andy and Bishop have played people are still pining for Lehner. His time will come.

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02-26-2013, 09:23 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by ThatWasNoAccident View Post
Lehner is, at best, 3-4 years away from a starting job. He can work all he wants and I agree that it's a nice problem to have, but we have two solid veterans in the lineup. He can jump in there if there's an injury but I'll take veteran smarts and instincts over a kid who makes foolish decisions anyday. I can't believe with the way Andy and Bishop have played people are still pining for Lehner. His time will come.
I'm really not that gung-ho for Lehner Main. Just confident that our current strength ahead of him on the depth chart will not shatter his confidence.

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02-26-2013, 09:31 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilfred View Post
IMO Bishop's trade value will highest at the trade deadline if multiple teams have injured goalies. Going into camp next year with all 3 goalies and trading the loser is a mistake value wise.

What does everyone think the values of all 3 goalies are now?

Bishop- 2nd and mid prospect
Lehner- 1st round pick (8-12) range
Anderson- top 6 forward or top four d-man late first round pick and a mid prospect
I don't really care about mid prospects right now.


Last edited by guyzeur: 02-26-2013 at 09:37 AM.
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02-26-2013, 09:32 AM
  #46
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You guys are kidding yourselves if you think Lehner is still AT LEAST 3-4 years away from being a starting NHL goaltender. He could play in the NHL as a starter as of today.

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02-26-2013, 09:34 AM
  #47
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I don't really care about mid prospect right now.
Agreed.

This isn't 2008 anymore... I want quality over quantity.

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02-26-2013, 09:36 AM
  #48
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Or this: trade Andy at the deadline and ride Lehner-Bishop as 1-2 punch for the next 10 years. We can cooncentrate on drafting forwards and Defence, we will be set for a long time between the pipes. I love Andy, the guy is playing lights out this year, which means his value will never be higher than it is right now. I am super confident in our future in nets. Let's go get another high end forward to play with Spezz.

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02-26-2013, 09:39 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beville View Post
Has Lehner ACTUALLY said he won't resign with us if he's not in the big team or are you just speculating?

Quite frankly, I'd happily keep Bish and Andy up here next season too...
He said he won't sign a 2 way!

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02-26-2013, 09:42 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by ThatWasNoAccident View Post
Lehner is, at best, 3-4 years away from a starting job. He can work all he wants and I agree that it's a nice problem to have, but we have two solid veterans in the lineup. He can jump in there if there's an injury but I'll take veteran smarts and instincts over a kid who makes foolish decisions anyday. I can't believe with the way Andy and Bishop have played people are still pining for Lehner. His time will come.
You gotta be kidding....3-4 years?? The dude is better than most goalies in the NHL today...The guy is pure pedigree and pressure does not get to him at all!

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