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02-20-2013, 03:03 PM
  #676
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Originally Posted by Veritas0Aequitas View Post
Practicing on the PP too.

I hope Ennis can't go. Grigorenko needs an opportunity like this. He's a top 6 C and needs the opportunity to play more with better linemates.

I don't think he needs to go back to the Q, I think he just needs at least 12-13 minutes of ice time and quality linemates.
FWIW, Grigorenko plays about 50 sec a game elss than galchenyuk. One might suggest Grigorenko is even the more talented player and hasn't been performing as well(I don't think this is really an insult, just appears to be fact).


Not to you, but to others:
What many seem to overlook is who owns Grigorenko's rights in the Q. The QMJHL doesn't exactly produce top talent like the OHL or even the WHL anymore. So he's probably in the weakest junior league in canada. Not to mention, the Q isn't known for being as physical or defensive as the other two leagues. Scoring in the Q has been relatively easier in last few years for top prospects. Now, if the Sabres feel Grigorenko has NHL ability then why send him down as some suggested? If he's supposed to learn top systems and play with high quality competition to improve the Q won't help him. It may even stunt his development or reinforce a skill image rather than complete player image. They have a chance to monitor his conditioning, let him learn NHL caliber strategies and make him play against competition which will push him physically and mentally.

It may seem crazy to some but it's just a matter of what the alternative is. If Grigo was playing in OHL they might've sent him back. In the Q I don't think he has much left to learn.

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02-20-2013, 03:03 PM
  #677
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I hope Patrick Roy is the new coach, if there is any coach out there that could maximize Grigorenkos production it would be Roy. I'm ecstatic that Ruff is gone for Grigs, he won't have to deal with being scratched for garbage like Scott or Gerbe

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02-20-2013, 03:13 PM
  #678
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
FWIW, Grigorenko plays about 50 sec a game elss than galchenyuk. One might suggest Grigorenko is even the more talented player and hasn't been performing as well(I don't think this is really an insult, just appears to be fact).


Not to you, but to others:
What many seem to overlook is who owns Grigorenko's rights in the Q. The QMJHL doesn't exactly produce top talent like the OHL or even the WHL anymore. So he's probably in the weakest junior league in canada. Not to mention, the Q isn't known for being as physical or defensive as the other two leagues. Scoring in the Q has been relatively easier in last few years for top prospects. Now, if the Sabres feel Grigorenko has NHL ability then why send him down as some suggested? If he's supposed to learn top systems and play with high quality competition to improve the Q won't help him. It may even stunt his development or reinforce a skill image rather than complete player image. They have a chance to monitor his conditioning, let him learn NHL caliber strategies and make him play against competition which will push him physically and mentally.

It may seem crazy to some but it's just a matter of what the alternative is. If Grigo was playing in OHL they might've sent him back. In the Q I don't think he has much left to learn.

Good post and I agree to a certain extent in your comparison to Galchenyuk. However, Grigs has been given inconsistent ice time ranging from 15 minutes to 7 minutes, scratched, benched and given a minute less PP time per game than Gally. To me, even for a rookie, that's not giving him the opportunity to show his stuff and also screwing with his confidence.

Now, I'm no expert in how to handle rookies, maybe he needs to be sheltered more. I think giving him some better linemates would help. Gallagher and Prust are an upgrade over Ott and Hecht in my opinion. Not by a mile, but they're still an upgrade. Foligno and Stafford are more comparable and maybe he'll succeed on that 2nd line for a game, maybe he won't but it will be nice to see him get some ice time nonetheless.

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02-20-2013, 03:22 PM
  #679
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Originally Posted by Veritas0Aequitas View Post
Good post and I agree to a certain extent in your comparison to Galchenyuk. However, Grigs has been given inconsistent ice time ranging from 15 minutes to 7 minutes, scratched, benched and given a minute less PP time per game than Gally. To me, even for a rookie, that's not giving him the opportunity to show his stuff and also screwing with his confidence.

Now, I'm no expert in how to handle rookies, maybe he needs to be sheltered more. I think giving him some better linemates would help. Gallagher and Prust are an upgrade over Ott and Hecht in my opinion. Not by a mile, but they're still an upgrade. Foligno and Stafford are more comparable and maybe he'll succeed on that 2nd line for a game, maybe he won't but it will be nice to see him get some ice time nonetheless.
I don't disagree and it's not a shot at Grigorenko. It may just be they want to teach him certain fundamentals before giving more responsibility. Skipping steps can always result in someone not doing the task properly. For instance, I'm not a bodybuilder but if you don't have proper form in lower weight, you'll probably injure yourself at higher weights. Now, does this mean Grigo is flawed? Probably not. It could be something as simple as Ruff(at the time) had a preference on how he wanted to develop Grigo.

I pointed out the league they play in because maybe behind the scenes there's been certain emphasis on erasing bad junior habits. I don't know, maybe not. I'm just brainstorming here.

I will agree it's unfortunate his ice time dips so low. In the case of galchenyuk he has 12:04 TOI/G average but has been over 10:00 every game in the season. Obviously that's a more consistent environment for someone to develop in. It could be something as simple as that really.

While I agree the montreal players in question are better, Gallagher is a rookie on his own so it may not have been a pre-determined "play with better linemates" scenario. Both have exceeded expectations in montreal and neither was established enough to say one would feed off the other going into the season.

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02-20-2013, 03:31 PM
  #680
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Alright get him back in the lineup and into the top 6
V-H-P
E-G-S
F-H-O

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02-20-2013, 04:42 PM
  #681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
FWIW, Grigorenko plays about 50 sec a game elss than galchenyuk. One might suggest Grigorenko is even the more talented player and hasn't been performing as well(I don't think this is really an insult, just appears to be fact).


Not to you, but to others:
What many seem to overlook is who owns Grigorenko's rights in the Q. The QMJHL doesn't exactly produce top talent like the OHL or even the WHL anymore. So he's probably in the weakest junior league in canada. Not to mention, the Q isn't known for being as physical or defensive as the other two leagues. Scoring in the Q has been relatively easier in last few years for top prospects. Now, if the Sabres feel Grigorenko has NHL ability then why send him down as some suggested? If he's supposed to learn top systems and play with high quality competition to improve the Q won't help him. It may even stunt his development or reinforce a skill image rather than complete player image. They have a chance to monitor his conditioning, let him learn NHL caliber strategies and make him play against competition which will push him physically and mentally.

It may seem crazy to some but it's just a matter of what the alternative is. If Grigo was playing in OHL they might've sent him back. In the Q I don't think he has much left to learn.
This is good old fashioned BS. Scoring in the Q has been similar or less than the other CHL leagues for several years now.

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02-20-2013, 05:32 PM
  #682
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This is good old fashioned BS. Scoring in the Q has been similar or less than the other CHL leagues for several years now.
Despite not producing many players who are talented enough to make the NHL correct?

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02-21-2013, 01:39 AM
  #683
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What's the problem with Tyler Ennis? Why he may can't go vs the Leafs?

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02-21-2013, 04:47 AM
  #684
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What's the problem with Tyler Ennis? Why he may can't go vs the Leafs?
injury, not exactly sure what it is but sat out practice yesterday

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02-21-2013, 05:36 AM
  #685
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
FWIW, Grigorenko plays about 50 sec a game elss than galchenyuk. One might suggest Grigorenko is even the more talented player and hasn't been performing as well(I don't think this is really an insult, just appears to be fact).


Not to you, but to others:
What many seem to overlook is who owns Grigorenko's rights in the Q. The QMJHL doesn't exactly produce top talent like the OHL or even the WHL anymore. So he's probably in the weakest junior league in canada. Not to mention, the Q isn't known for being as physical or defensive as the other two leagues. Scoring in the Q has been relatively easier in last few years for top prospects. Now, if the Sabres feel Grigorenko has NHL ability then why send him down as some suggested? If he's supposed to learn top systems and play with high quality competition to improve the Q won't help him. It may even stunt his development or reinforce a skill image rather than complete player image. They have a chance to monitor his conditioning, let him learn NHL caliber strategies and make him play against competition which will push him physically and mentally.

It may seem crazy to some but it's just a matter of what the alternative is. If Grigo was playing in OHL they might've sent him back. In the Q I don't think he has much left to learn.
That's BS, the difference between Q systems and O systems isn't that much different. The difference is teams depth. But it doesn't affect Grigorenko since he was playing against every team's top line. The Q has become way more defensive. You're just talking about the 90's, early 2000's. Grigorenko had the challenge to lead a team to a championship. Now his challenge became not making too much mistakes to stay in the lineup. How is that development for an offensively gifted player who'll never play a defensive role?

Grigorenko was over-matched physically even in the Q. He had troubles winning one on one battles most of the time. I believe a full season in the Q would have been better for him. He wasn't the best player in the league when he left, that's for sure.

He just looks out of place sometimes with the Sabres. Benching him every time he makes a mistake, I don't see how it's supposed to be development. You send him back so he can learn how to do it right, you don't just sit him for an entire period or a game. I don't have a problem with him being with the Sabres but when he gets 8 mins of ice time and no minute at all, it pisses me off.

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02-26-2013, 01:42 AM
  #686
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At this point, with the season looking lost, a fired coach, an exhausted goalie, a lack of offense and defensemen that skate in circles, whats the harm in giving the kid top 6 minutes? Not like he can ruin the chemistry of the top 2 lines or that we will lose because of him. He can't be any worse at faceoffs than Ennis or worse defensively than Hodgson, or worse offensively than Hecht or Scott.

Its time to lose while trying something knew rather than continue losing doing the same things that got Ruff fired.

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02-26-2013, 01:49 AM
  #687
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At this point, with the season looking lost, a fired coach, an exhausted goalie, a lack of offense and defensemen that skate in circles, whats the harm in giving the kid top 6 minutes? Not like he can ruin the chemistry of the top 2 lines or that we will lose because of him. He can't be any worse at faceoffs than Ennis or worse defensively than Hodgson, or worse offensively than Hecht or Scott.

Its time to lose while trying something knew rather than continue losing doing the same things that got Ruff fired.
I don't think it's fair to compare Grigs/Hodgson from a defensive standpoint. In any form. I just don't. There's no sample size.

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02-26-2013, 07:24 AM
  #688
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They need to get him away from this trainwreck ASAP. We're a CBJ win away from being DFL in the entire league. That's not a good environment for any rookie to be in

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02-26-2013, 07:36 AM
  #689
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They need to get him away from this trainwreck ASAP. We're a CBJ win away from being DFL in the entire league. That's not a good environment for any rookie to be in
A deep playoff run and possible memorial cup tournament with Quebec wouldn't hurt him, that's for sure.

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02-26-2013, 07:40 AM
  #690
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They need to get him away from this trainwreck ASAP. We're a CBJ win away from being DFL in the entire league. That's not a good environment for any rookie to be in
At least in the role he's in, it's not.

If he were playing with better linemates, to get a look at a better supporting cast and better competition I think I'd be more inclined to say he's fine staying up this year. But he's not. He's playing bottom of the barrel minutes on a train wreck team right now. I'm not sure if keeping him up is a good idea in that scenario. Although he gets to work with NHL coaches and he's still up against NHL competition. But the losing environment in conjunction with the tough placement makes me wonder if he wouldn't benefit from a confidence boost in the Q.

Glad it's not my decision to make

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02-26-2013, 07:52 AM
  #691
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I hope Patrick Roy is the new coach, if there is any coach out there that could maximize Grigorenkos production it would be Roy. I'm ecstatic that Ruff is gone for Grigs, he won't have to deal with being scratched for garbage like Scott or Gerbe
Apart from the fact that all Rolo has done is trash him about how his 'nowhere near' NHL level.

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02-26-2013, 07:55 AM
  #692
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At least in the role he's in, it's not.

If he were playing with better linemates, to get a look at a better supporting cast and better competition I think I'd be more inclined to say he's fine staying up this year. But he's not. He's playing bottom of the barrel minutes on a train wreck team right now. I'm not sure if keeping him up is a good idea in that scenario. Although he gets to work with NHL coaches and he's still up against NHL competition. But the losing environment in conjunction with the tough placement makes me wonder if he wouldn't benefit from a confidence boost in the Q.

Glad it's not my decision to make
Using this as a season to experiment with the rookies, giving them advanced roles and letting them see what they can do it would be worth it, but all the Sabres doing is pushing him to the side in favour of tired vets who have proven they cannot (or at least are not) get the job done.

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02-26-2013, 08:35 AM
  #693
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Woulda been nice for him to go back to Quebec then to Rochester for their playoff run but since Darcy found it beneficial to bandaid the Sabres with their coach, captain, and best defenseman that likely won't happen.

Now 2 teams are in the ******* and young players won't even sniff the playoffs while we tank it to the extreme.

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02-26-2013, 09:09 AM
  #694
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This kid is ruined....and Darcy is too much of a penny pinching tightwad to eat the year on the ELC and send him down to the Q. He'd rather let Grigorenko rot.

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02-26-2013, 09:14 AM
  #695
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This kid is ruined....and Darcy is too much of a penny pinching tightwad to eat the year on the ELC and send him down to the Q. He'd rather let Grigorenko rot.
... sarcasm? Hard to tell anymore

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02-26-2013, 09:22 AM
  #696
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... sarcasm? Hard to tell anymore
When he does spend money he misspends it.

What does he have to lose by sending Grigs back down to the Q?

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02-26-2013, 09:23 AM
  #697
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At this point, with the season looking lost, a fired coach, an exhausted goalie, a lack of offense and defensemen that skate in circles, whats the harm in giving the kid top 6 minutes? Not like he can ruin the chemistry of the top 2 lines or that we will lose because of him. He can't be any worse at faceoffs than Ennis or worse defensively than Hodgson, or worse offensively than Hecht or Scott.

Its time to lose while trying something knew rather than continue losing doing the same things that got Ruff fired.
Then people will complain that we're giving him too much too soon, and ruining him in the way that Islanders frequently do with many of their unready prospects. They just need to eat the year of his ELC and send him back to Quebec, and get him back on a proper development path.

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02-26-2013, 09:27 AM
  #698
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They need to get him away from this trainwreck ASAP. We're a CBJ win away from being DFL in the entire league. That's not a good environment for any rookie to be in
Doesn't seem to have hindered Eberle/Hall/RNH's development.

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02-26-2013, 09:36 AM
  #699
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When he does spend money he misspends it.

What does he have to lose by sending Grigs back down to the Q?
You just...you...wow.

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02-26-2013, 09:37 AM
  #700
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Originally Posted by CrankyJay View Post
When he does spend money he misspends it.

What does he have to lose by sending Grigs back down to the Q?
Alright then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrankyJay
This kid is ruined....
Pretty bold assertion. Didn't ruin Stamkos, Seguin, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrankyJay
and Darcy is too much of a penny pinching tightwad to eat the year on the ELC and send him down to the Q.
I don't even know what this means. It's not about actual money at all, so that doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter for the cap.

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He'd rather let Grigorenko rot.
No, he'd rather not burn a year of the ELC.

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