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Old
02-25-2013, 10:32 PM
  #201
mike14
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I have no interest in trading Hank, but there are players out there like Bernier in LA who could be brought in if the crazy '4 first-rounders for Hank' ever came true.

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02-26-2013, 02:40 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Henriks Broadway Hat View Post
Ok, but the 04 lockout messed up everyone's schedule. Timmy went to fight against Obama or whatever. It's obvious that he's not serious about hockey anymore.

We will not be able to find a replacement for Hank. Wanna go back to the days of Blackburn/Valiquette/Weekes/whoever else we had? I don't. I like my goalie winning games, no single-handidly losing them.
We don't need to find a player that's just as good as Hank. A goalie like Fluery, Pavelec would be more than good enough.

I'm not denying that the goalie position was our Achille's heel for some time here, but this was also the same time where we were spending huge amounts of cash on players who were too old, battered and injured, or received a payday that they really shouldn't have.

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02-26-2013, 03:30 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by ImIdaho View Post
We don't need to find a player that's just as good as Hank. A goalie like Fluery, Pavelec would be more than good enough.

I'm not denying that the goalie position was our Achille's heel for some time here, but this was also the same time where we were spending huge amounts of cash on players who were too old, battered and injured, or received a payday that they really shouldn't have.
I can almost guarantee that Sather will overpay Hank to stay...

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02-26-2013, 05:48 AM
  #204
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Stop signing sexy free agents . Once again attempt to identify a core concept . Develop players . Position themselves for playoffs and make judicious team improving rentals at deadline if possible . Develop a power play . Start drafting guys who not only have size or skating but can actually shoot and let them play.

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02-26-2013, 05:49 AM
  #205
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Oh yeah and Fire Sather / Torts / Sully .

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02-26-2013, 07:37 AM
  #206
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Originally Posted by robwrx04 View Post
We don't need to trade players. Team chemistry isn't built overnight. Doesn't help swapping half the roster either.
Exactly. Stop turning over the roster year after year- let these guys play together. I know a lot of fans feel that we are in a win-now mode because of the aging Lundqvist/Richards/Gaborik so they get impatient, but it isn't going to happen over night. It also doesn't help that Torts switches the damn lines every other game.

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02-26-2013, 07:49 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
Stop signing sexy free agents . Once again attempt to identify a core concept . Develop players . Position themselves for playoffs and make judicious team improving rentals at deadline if possible . Develop a power play . Start drafting guys who not only have size or skating but can actually shoot and let them play.
Agree 100%

Goaltending and defense is set. The only change I'd make with the defense is to add a real dynamic offensive defenseman.

The forward corp is the issue. Richards and Gaborik are problems.

Get O'Reilly. Cement the center position. That's the backbone of your forward corp.

O'Reilly
Stepan
Miller

That's a start. Three hard working, two-way centers with character, grit, skill, and leadership.

Add wingers with speed and tenacity.

We are not going to run up the score on a consistent basis, ever. Once we accept this fact, we can re attain our identity.

There is no one blueprint to a championship. Its the team that personifies the identity it claims to be. And the team that has enough go its way.

The Rangers had so much personnel turnover in the forward corp from last year that the identity is gone. Make the moves to get it back.

They have been drafting to fit the identity.

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02-26-2013, 07:51 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
Oh yeah and Fire Sather / Torts / Sully .
Disagree.

Sullivan yes. The power play needs to be fixed.

Sather will eventually step aside and retain the position of President. Jeff Gorton will be named GM.

Tortorella is the right coach for this club. Get the identity back and that will be more apparent.

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02-26-2013, 08:36 AM
  #209
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Very disappointed at this point, I still say force the play attack the forecheck like the Devils do, make the opposition make mistakes...

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02-26-2013, 08:47 AM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
Stop signing sexy free agents . Once again attempt to identify a core concept . Develop players . Position themselves for playoffs and make judicious team improving rentals at deadline if possible . Develop a power play . Start drafting guys who not only have size or skating but can actually shoot and let them play.
I actually see them doing a lot of what you're saying.

They have backed off of signing the big free agent by and large. Yes Richards is and was a big FA but he was also a part of that "core concept" we all saw and loved last season. And with the cap, they really can't sign a "sexy free agent" every summer.

They have been developing players.

The lack of success on the power play is amazingly curious.

It's not as simple as drafting guys who can shoot.

I said the Rangers need health because it forces them to play player before they're really ready (Kreider, Miller, Thomas).

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02-26-2013, 09:07 AM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
Stop signing sexy free agents . Once again attempt to identify a core concept . Develop players . Position themselves for playoffs and make judicious team improving rentals at deadline if possible . Develop a power play . Start drafting guys who not only have size or skating but can actually shoot and let them play.
So much easier said than done. I think what you said is actually what the Rangers have been doing.

Thing is, we came so close last year that Sather felt the need to take a shot this year. Losing Dubinsky and Anisimov in the trade, letting Prust and Fedotenko go in free agency, the Rangers lost right there 33% of their forward corps. These are four guys that were able to buy-in to Tortorella hockey.

Then this year came along with the additions of guys like Nash and Pyatt, who look nice on paper for Tortorella hockey (size, speed in Nash's case) but aren't what "Torts hockey" is about.

This lineup would be much better suited under a different philosophy, and it's on Torts to make those changes, which he seemingly refuses to do.

But like you said, look at the Rangers draft picks when Tortorella was here (09 - Present): Kreider (speed and size), McIlrath (size), Miller (speed, size, two-way game), Skjei (speed, size, two-way game). All Torts hockey guys. The only one of these players who really has the potential to light up the scoresheet is Kreider. That is NOT a coincidence.

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02-26-2013, 09:16 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I actually see them doing a lot of what you're saying.

They have backed off of signing the big free agent by and large. Yes Richards is and was a big FA but he was also a part of that "core concept" we all saw and loved last season. And with the cap, they really can't sign a "sexy free agent" every summer.

They have been developing players.

The lack of success on the power play is amazingly curious.

It's not as simple as drafting guys who can shoot.

I said the Rangers need health because it forces them to play player before they're really ready (Kreider, Miller, Thomas).
Good points, especially about filling the roster with players that simply aren't ready.

The Rangers will likely ALWAYS have to sign free agents to complete the first line. This utopian concept that the Rangers will be able to develop 10-12 50 point forwards and role 4 lines just isnt feasible. Championship teams always have big time offensive talent to carry the load. Richards and Gaborik are not playing well, but the fact of the matter is they will need to be replaced by players like Richards and Gaborik at the top of their games. Personally, Im not ready to jettison them yet after 17 games.

Theres several problems with this team right now. I have issues with every forward besides Hagelin, the defense has been OK but not the dominant force they were last season - same goes for Hank. Hell, even Tortorella doesnt seem to be the fiery presence he was last season. The injuries have forced guys like Miller and Kreider, who simply aren't ready for consistent NHL action, up in the lineup.

But above all, this team isnt comfortable in its own skates - Brooks hit on it in his article today, its an identity problem. Too many players pulling in different directions - some strictly struggling, some afraid to make a mistake, some who shouldnt be in the NHL. Dont ask me how this gets fixed, but its need to.


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02-26-2013, 09:20 AM
  #213
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post

This lineup would be much better suited under a different philosophy, and it's on Torts to make those changes, which he seemingly refuses to do.
.
This is where I disagree. Above all else, Tortorella asks his players to play hard every shift, not be afraid to enter the dirty areas of the ice, forecheck hard, hawk loose pucks, and grind down the opposition.

Im happy with the philosophy of a team that plays hard - that shouldnt be any sort of luxury. I think its on the players to change their philosophy, not vice versa.

Take a guy like Kreider - hes big, strong, and fast. What excuse does he have to play so timid?

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02-26-2013, 09:20 AM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
So much easier said than done. I think what you said is actually what the Rangers have been doing.
I agree with a lot of what you say (probably because it's close to what I said!).

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Thing is, we came so close last year that Sather felt the need to take a shot this year. Losing Dubinsky and Anisimov in the trade, letting Prust and Fedotenko go in free agency, the Rangers lost right there 33% of their forward corps. These are four guys that were able to buy-in to Tortorella hockey.
Prust and Fedetenko for sure were/are Torts kinda guys. But they are hardly unique players. I think Dubi had to go. He had been passed over and to be honest if he wasn't a Ranger draft pick people would have called for him to dealt a long time ago.

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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Then this year came along with the additions of guys like Nash and Pyatt, who look nice on paper for Tortorella hockey (size, speed in Nash's case) but aren't what "Torts hockey" is about.
At first blush, I'd agree about Pyatt. Don't agree with Nash. But the problem is there was really no camp, a compressed schedule, a very tough schedule to start and the the whole team hasn't been healthy at the same time. It's hard to put it all together when you have (as you correctly pointed out) had a 33% turn over in the forward corp.

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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
This lineup would be much better suited under a different philosophy, and it's on Torts to make those changes, which he seemingly refuses to do.
Maybe. But he won't. I'm not advocating firing Torts but the talent and core of this team are there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
But like you said, look at the Rangers draft picks when Tortorella was here (09 - Present): Kreider (speed and size), McIlrath (size), Miller (speed, size, two-way game), Skjei (speed, size, two-way game). All Torts hockey guys. The only one of these players who really has the potential to light up the scoresheet is Kreider. That is NOT a coincidence.
The organization seems to have made it their philosophy to draft players who can be part of a core but get that top offensive, star player via trade or via FA signing. And where they've been drafting, I don't know if that top offensive player is there to take unless they have a flaw. For example, Thomas was an offensive machine. But he has the body of a high school sophomore.

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02-26-2013, 09:30 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Good points, especially about filling the roster with players that simply aren't ready.
It really makes things more difficult. It's never a good thing when young players aren't kicking down the door, they're being ushered in the door.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The Rangers will likely ALWAYS have to sign free agents to complete the first line. This utopian concept that the Rangers will be able to develop 10-12 50 point forwards and role 4 lines just isnt feasible. Championship teams always have big time offensive talent to carry the load. Richards and Gaborik are not playing well, but the fact of the matter is they will need to be replaced by players like Richards and Gaborik at the top of their games. Personally, Im not ready to jettison them yet after 17 games.
A healthy Gaborik would have made a huge difference in the playoffs. I'm not sayng they win the Cup if he's was healthy, but I do think they don't go 7 games in the Ottawa and Washington series. Maybe then they're fresher when it came time to play the Devils.

Adding a Nash was a move made as much for the playoffs as it was for the regular season if not more. And I think he's been great when he's been in the lineup.

I too I'm ready to do anything after 17 games. In fact, I'm ready to ride out this season. All these trade talks I think are silly and based more on people want something to talk about more so than what is in the best interest of this team. Clowe? Antropov? Talk based more on name than what the actual player is

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Theres several problems with this team right now. I have issues with every forward besides Hagelin, the defense has been OK but not the dominant force they were last season - same goes for Hank.
The simple comment is outside of Hagelin, no Ranger forward has played better than they did last season. Maybe Callahan has been the same. But beyond those two, not one player is playing better than last year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Hell, even Tortorella doesnt seem to be the fiery presence he was last season. The injuries have forced guys like Miller and Kreider, who simply aren't ready for consistent NHL action, up in the lineup.
I think Torts has been the same. When you're winning his act comes off as fiery. When you're not it comes off as something else.

But above all, this team isnt comfortable in its own skates - Brooks hit on it in his article today, its an identity problem. Too many players pulling in different directions - some strictly struggling, some afraid to make a mistake, some who should be in the NHL. Dont ask me how this gets fixed, but its need to.[/QUOTE]

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02-26-2013, 10:40 AM
  #216
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Well if NYR need to fill line up with past their prime players in today's NHl I'm not sure they ever win the cup again.
Hopefully Nash pans out but Richards if not already is on the verge of busting especially if bought out after 2 - 3 years tops and nothing more than a ECF loss .
I don't see how having your top 9 have a scoring by committee and a good PP isn't possible to win in this league .

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02-26-2013, 10:58 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Dorado View Post
Well if NYR need to fill line up with past their prime players in today's NHl I'm not sure they ever win the cup again.
Hopefully Nash pans out but Richards if not already is on the verge of busting especially if bought out after 2 - 3 years tops and nothing more than a ECF loss .
I don't see how having your top 9 have a scoring by committee and a good PP isn't possible to win in this league .
I don't think anyone said fill the roster. And they got Gaborik when he was 27 and Nash added Nash when he was 28. Far from other the hill.

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02-26-2013, 01:29 PM
  #218
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We have the talent. We need some heart and onions. Bring up Haley. And trade Boyle for anything. Pound for pound he's the least intimidating big man in the league.

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02-26-2013, 01:30 PM
  #219
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We have the talent. We need some heart and onions. Bring up Haley. And trade Boyle for anything. Pound for pound he's the least intimidating big man in the league.
Before I brought up haley, I would claim McGrattan

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02-26-2013, 01:36 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Take a guy like Kreider - hes big, strong, and fast. What excuse does he have to play so timid?

Hothead benching him over mistakes, because if you make mistakes, you dont play, but yet he says you have to allow them to make mistakes, but when you do, you get benched, and...... Tortorella hockey!

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02-26-2013, 01:39 PM
  #221
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I'd take a young playmaker, a goal scorer, and whatever else we can get with the two other picks over the Vezina winner only because that's the one constant that we've ever had since the 05-06.

Plus, there is no one player on this team that can get us those 4 picks.

Got the winning lotto numbers for tonight?


I think its quite foolish to have any faith in this organization drafting all of that, im sorry. Our Vezina goaltender was a crapshoot 7th round pick for **** sake.

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02-26-2013, 01:44 PM
  #222
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that maybe the Rangers problem is this:

They worked their ***** off 110% last season....and the season before. Torts got as much as he could out of them, and they just are physically/mentally exhausted and having a hard time reaching down for it again?


I thought a lockout might help, fewer games, rest up on injuries, but maybe even if they had a full camp for Torts to get the team ready, maybe they just were too beat up from the prior two?

Ive considered this.

Two years in this system certainly wears on you mentally and physically im sure. Maybe last year they had the gas to do it, coming off subpar year, low expectations, etc.

Im just sick and tired of watching this team scrape out wins for the last 800 years.

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02-26-2013, 04:47 PM
  #223
z1co80
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My dream would be to somehow turn

Gaborik and Richards into Kane (WPG) and O'Reilly

Then get a RH dman

Never gonna happen but as i said dream

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02-26-2013, 05:43 PM
  #224
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My dream would be to somehow turn

Gaborik and Richards into Kane (WPG) and O'Reilly

Then get a RH dman

Never gonna happen but as i said dream
What? Joke right?

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02-26-2013, 06:19 PM
  #225
z1co80
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What? Joke right?
I did say dream lol

I thought this was crazy idea thread judging by some of the posts.

Just thought i'd participate

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