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What does MacKinnon have over Barkov?

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Old
02-26-2013, 08:38 AM
  #1
Sundinisagod
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What does MacKinnon have over Barkov?

Well skating is the obvious, but Barkov has the size advantage. They both project to be 1st line centers. I don't see a clear cut favourite here, I can see a team going either way come draft day. Am I out to lunch? Is there any significant separation between the two? We know NHL teams love size down the middle...would you be shocked if Barkov went ahead of Mac?


For the record, I don't have adequate viewings of these two great prospects to form a conclusive opinion of my own...but when I look at these guys on paper I have to give the (slight) edge to Barkov.

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02-26-2013, 08:40 AM
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02-26-2013, 08:41 AM
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02-26-2013, 08:54 AM
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stubbadub
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MacKinnon has a bit better hockey sense IMO. Barkov is great, can use his size well already, but like the poster said above (joking or not), the exposure does help whoever picks MacKinnon as his team mates will benefit with him drawing more players to him. Drouin benefited from that last season and the start of this season before he exploded with the dangles. Barkov has the same trail blazed a Grigorenko last year; large centreman who has a very high ceiling. MacKinnon has great two-way play. I'm not overly sure of how much PK time Barkov has been getting, but MacKinnon was great on the PK before December.

All in all, it doesn't matter if Barkov is picked over MacKinnon. They're both going to have very successful careers. Barkov will be a great two-way player, and hopefully packs a punch of grit in the future. MacKinnon will not give up however. I've watched him so much that he just hounds whoever is on the puck, whether it be in the corners or open ice.

Off topic, but I can only hope MacKinnon is in the league next year so that Hockey Canada doesn't have a shot at getting him back for another world juniors. They really **** the bed by placing him on the 4th line. Him and Drouin have amazing chemistry, and Spott refused to exploit that.

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02-26-2013, 08:58 AM
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Gaps
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stubbadub View Post
MacKinnon has a bit better hockey sense IMO. Barkov is great, can use his size well already, but like the poster said above (joking or not), the exposure does help whoever picks MacKinnon as his team mates will benefit with him drawing more players to him. Drouin benefited from that last season and the start of this season before he exploded with the dangles. Barkov has the same trail blazed a Grigorenko last year; large centreman who has a very high ceiling. MacKinnon has great two-way play. I'm not overly sure of how much PK time Barkov has been getting, but MacKinnon was great on the PK before December.

All in all, it doesn't matter if Barkov is picked over MacKinnon. They're both going to have very successful careers. Barkov will be a great two-way player, and hopefully packs a punch of grit in the future. MacKinnon will not give up however. I've watched him so much that he just hounds whoever is on the puck, whether it be in the corners or open ice.

Off topic, but I can only hope MacKinnon is in the league next year so that Hockey Canada doesn't have a shot at getting him back for another world juniors. They really **** the bed by placing him on the 4th line. Him and Drouin have amazing chemistry, and Spott refused to exploit that.
Barkov does play PK. Not the most on his team, but he is used on PK.

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02-26-2013, 08:58 AM
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MacKinnon is not just a better skater, but there is a pretty substantial gap. MacKinnon would likely be in the top 20% of NHL skaters as early as next year. His first few strides are absolutely tremendous. Barkov on the other hand, would be definitely be in the bottom 20%, although he could obviously get better.

MacKinnon's familiarity and success on the smaller North American rinks and with a target on his back against NA competition is also a big factor.

I don't doubt there are some scouts out there that might like Barkov better though. I think most scouts would actually acknowledge their upsides are probably pretty comparable (both could be above average #1 centermen).

But MacKinnon is a MUCH less risky player with practically zero bust potential. Aside from injuries, I think most scouts would see his downside as an average 2nd line center, where as Barkov's bust potential is likely substantially higher than that because of his skating and his lack of experience on North American ice and with North American style of play. With his lack of speed, he will need to be extremely powerful at the NHL level to be effective, which might happen, but it won't be an easy transition. Basically, he would need to do what a guy like Yashin and Thornton did, which was overcome a slower stride to simply power through the opposition at times.

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02-26-2013, 09:19 AM
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Skating, by a large margin. MacKinnon has that top gear that would probably make him amongst the quickest in the NHL. Barkov has some ?s there, from what I've heard, though he's a big kid so it's not surprising. There's also the fact that MacKinnon's already playing a NA style game on NHL-sized ice, which means it's easier to project his offensive upside.

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02-26-2013, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stubbadub View Post
MacKinnon has a bit better hockey sense IMO. Barkov is great, can use his size well already, but like the poster said above (joking or not), the exposure does help whoever picks MacKinnon as his team mates will benefit with him drawing more players to him. Drouin benefited from that last season and the start of this season before he exploded with the dangles. Barkov has the same trail blazed a Grigorenko last year; large centreman who has a very high ceiling. MacKinnon has great two-way play. I'm not overly sure of how much PK time Barkov has been getting, but MacKinnon was great on the PK before December.

All in all, it doesn't matter if Barkov is picked over MacKinnon. They're both going to have very successful careers. Barkov will be a great two-way player, and hopefully packs a punch of grit in the future. MacKinnon will not give up however. I've watched him so much that he just hounds whoever is on the puck, whether it be in the corners or open ice.

Off topic, but I can only hope MacKinnon is in the league next year so that Hockey Canada doesn't have a shot at getting him back for another world juniors. They really **** the bed by placing him on the 4th line. Him and Drouin have amazing chemistry, and Spott refused to exploit that.


How would you compare MacKinnon to Tavares?

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02-26-2013, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goal1228 View Post
How would you compare MacKinnon to Tavares?
I would say Tavares has the better shot, but MacKinnon is better at just about everything else. Their hockey IQ's are probably equal though.

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02-26-2013, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen23 View Post
I would say Tavares has the better shot, but MacKinnon is better at just about everything else. Their hockey IQ's are probably equal though.


Thanks for the reply. I would think MacKinnon goes 1st in the draft then.

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02-26-2013, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen23 View Post
I would say Tavares has the better shot, but MacKinnon is better at just about everything else. Their hockey IQ's are probably equal though.
Where would you rank Drouin's hockey IQ then? I've read it's better than Mac's, but I can't imagine it's better than JT's?

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02-26-2013, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Sens(e) View Post
MacKinnon is not just a better skater, but there is a pretty substantial gap. MacKinnon would likely be in the top 20% of NHL skaters as early as next year. His first few strides are absolutely tremendous. Barkov on the other hand, would be definitely be in the bottom 20%, although he could obviously get better.

MacKinnon's familiarity and success on the smaller North American rinks and with a target on his back against NA competition is also a big factor.

I don't doubt there are some scouts out there that might like Barkov better though. I think most scouts would actually acknowledge their upsides are probably pretty comparable (both could be above average #1 centermen).

But MacKinnon is a MUCH less risky player with practically zero bust potential. Aside from injuries, I think most scouts would see his downside as an average 2nd line center, where as Barkov's bust potential is likely substantially higher than that because of his skating and his lack of experience on North American ice and with North American style of play. With his lack of speed, he will need to be extremely powerful at the NHL level to be effective, which might happen, but it won't be an easy transition. Basically, he would need to do what a guy like Yashin and Thornton did, which was overcome a slower stride to simply power through the opposition at times.

I just want to point out the obvious, that Barkov is one of the biggest, strongest man-child type prospects since Eric Lindros...hence why I think he has a low bust factor as well.

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02-26-2013, 09:48 AM
  #13
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IQ

Tavares/Drouin
Mackinnon

Mackinnon has good IQ but not the level of Tavares or Drouin

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02-26-2013, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen23 View Post
I would say Tavares has the better shot, but MacKinnon is better at just about everything else. Their hockey IQ's are probably equal though.
There's no way MacKinnon's hockey IQ is equal to Tavares'..

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02-26-2013, 10:23 AM
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How does a 6'3 205 pounder have more bust potential than a 5'11 180 pounder?

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02-26-2013, 10:28 AM
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How does a 6'3 205 pounder have more bust potential than a 5'11 180 pounder?
Ask Colton Gillies.

Size isn't everything.

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02-26-2013, 10:35 AM
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Ask Colton Gillies.

Size isn't everything.
What year was he drafted in top 3 or top 5?

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02-26-2013, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen23 View Post
I would say Tavares has the better shot, but MacKinnon is better at just about everything else. Their hockey IQ's are probably equal though.
Wait what? MacKinnon's hockey IQ appears to be closer to Taylor Hall's than JT's. JT's vision and hockey IQ is top 5 in the NHL, he knows exactly where he needs to be on the rush or in the offensive zone, and completely controls the pace of the game when he has the puck. MacKinnon often plays the game at 100mph nonstop and gets scoring chances on skill alone. Actually come to think of it, MacKinnon is pretty much a less physical, less reckless, slightly better hockey IQ version of Hall. Drouin is the one who thinks the game on another level, and while he doesn't have the same level of skill, he doesn't need to either. He has just the right combination of hockey IQ and skill to use MacKinnon properly.

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02-26-2013, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toewsintangibles View Post
How does a 6'3 205 pounder have more bust potential than a 5'11 180 pounder?
When the 5'11 180 pounder is better? Apparently size is the most important statistic now.

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02-26-2013, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by magnoctophas View Post
Wait what? MacKinnon's hockey IQ appears to be closer to Taylor Hall's than JT's. JT's vision and hockey IQ is top 5 in the NHL, he knows exactly where he needs to be on the rush or in the offensive zone, and completely controls the pace of the game when he has the puck. MacKinnon often plays the game at 100mph nonstop and gets scoring chances on skill alone. Actually come to think of it, MacKinnon is pretty much a less physical, less reckless, slightly better hockey IQ version of Hall. Drouin is the one who thinks the game on another level, and while he doesn't have the same level of skill, he doesn't need to either. He has just the right combination of hockey IQ and skill to use MacKinnon properly.
MacKinnon has reeeeallly slowed down his pace this season (sometimes I wish he would be more over the top like he was as a rookie), and contrary to some people's belief he actually has a very high hockey IQ.

Also to state that Drouin doesn't have the same skill. Well......I just don't know where you got that idea.

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02-26-2013, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundinisagod View Post
Where would you rank Drouin's hockey IQ then? I've read it's better than Mac's, but I can't imagine it's better than JT's?
Didn't mean to start anything with my Hockey IQ comparison. Basically I feel that MacKinnon is a very intelligent player, but as you mentioned, Drouin possibly has better IQ. The way I would differentiate the two is that Drouin seems to know the play before it happens, where as MacKinnon seems to get the puck, take a quick look at his options and makes the best possible play. So I would say Drouin is a step ahead of MacKinnon, but MacKinnon is quick to adjust.

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02-26-2013, 11:03 AM
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"He has just the right combination of hockey IQ and skill to use MacKinnon properly."

Is that why his scoring pace increased when MacK went down? Drouin has thrived since becoming the focal point of their offence. He's got more hockey IQ, and more skill than MacKinnon...Nate has the physical tools but Drouin is going to be a ridiculous NHL player.

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02-26-2013, 11:08 AM
  #23
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I would have imagined that Barkov shattering all past records of 17-year old draftees in Finnish Elite League would have had more people in NA drooling for him, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

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02-26-2013, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen23 View Post
Didn't mean to start anything with my Hockey IQ comparison. Basically I feel that MacKinnon is a very intelligent player, but as you mentioned, Drouin possibly has better IQ. The way I would differentiate the two is that Drouin seems to know the play before it happens, where as MacKinnon seems to get the puck, take a quick look at his options and makes the best possible play. So I would say Drouin is a step ahead of MacKinnon, but MacKinnon is quick to adjust.
Like I said I'm going mostly off of what I've read...so I value your opinion here...just trying to get some perspective here for all of us. From what I've read I don't think MacKinnon has JT level hockey IQ but it's certainly well above average and one of his strengths.

How does Mackinnon's hockey sense compare to Barkov's?

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02-26-2013, 11:14 AM
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I would have imagined that Barkov shattering all past records of 17-year old draftees in Finnish Elite League would have had more people in NA drooling for him, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

This, combined with his size is why I'm surprised he's not getting ranked ahead or closer to MacKinnon.

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