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Old
02-26-2013, 09:59 AM
  #51
achdumeingute
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Well, let's say you push Briere out with threatened amnesty.
Which is actually probably better for Briere.

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02-26-2013, 10:17 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Timonen has gotta have some value.

Also, Shattenkirk is another RFA defenseman this summer.
According to Capgeek they have 7 RFA's. Thats a lot of players to resign for a team that only spends about 50 mil. The only good part for the Blues is that they are RFA's not UFA's

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02-26-2013, 10:29 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by FLYERSFAN18 View Post
According to Capgeek they have 7 RFA's. Thats a lot of players to resign for a team that only spends about 50 mil. The only good part for the Blues is that they are RFA's not UFA's
Briere and Coburn for Shattenkirk ? Give Blues a killer top pair and skilled Briere that is owed way less than his cap hit ?

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02-26-2013, 10:37 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
Briere and Coburn for Shattenkirk ? Give Blues a killer top pair and skilled Briere that is owed way less than his cap hit ?
Holy overpayment. What is the fascination with Shattenkirk? He's good, but so is Coburn. And so is Briere.

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02-26-2013, 10:45 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Bennysflyers16 View Post
Briere and Coburn for Shattenkirk ? Give Blues a killer top pair and skilled Briere that is owed way less than his cap hit ?
I'd probably do Briere and Grossmann/Meszaros for Shattenkirk.

Not Coburn. It's pointless to deal Coburn for pretty much anybody because as soon as we trade him we then have to use other assets to replace him.

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02-26-2013, 10:57 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I'd probably do Briere and Grossmann/Meszaros for Shattenkirk.

Not Coburn. It's pointless to deal Coburn for pretty much anybody because as soon as we trade him we then have to use other assets to replace him.
I would do it just because Shattenkirk would bring better puck moving a speed better than any other d-man on the team. We had Gus out in the last minute of yesterday's game just because he is far and away our second best puck handling defenseman. Gus! Throw in the fact that Timonen is clearly a shell of his former self and ices the puck more than he starts effective breakouts and I think a Coburn-Shattenkirk swap would be a huge boon for the team.

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02-26-2013, 11:12 AM
  #57
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I'd sooner do Briere and maybe Mes for Shatterkirk, but I would do that in a cocaine heartbeat

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02-26-2013, 11:20 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Yeah, that's basically the whole season.

What annoys me is that if this team does get on a really hot run they certainly have the talent to make a good playoff push. The question is, will they dig themselves into too deep a hole first?
yup and with everyone having games in hand on us and many of those teams still playing each other it doesnt get any easier if they cant muster more then a 2 game winning streak.

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02-26-2013, 11:23 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
yup and with everyone having games in hand on us and many of those teams still playing each other it doesnt get any easier if they cant muster more then a 2 game winning streak.
The Flyers essentially need a 0.667 points percentage to make the playoffs at this point. 18-9, with no OT losses, is what that would take.

Not looking good when the team hasn't even reached 0.500 on the season after 21 games.

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02-26-2013, 11:54 AM
  #60
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What's the "full story"?
A lot of things, like games in hand vs other teams, strength of your team's schedule, how well the team is playing, any key injuries or key players returning to the lineup.

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02-26-2013, 12:28 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
Well, let's say you push Briere out with threatened amnesty. You get a deadline first for him. Then you trade Timonen for a 1st.

Your team at the start of the offseason:

Hartnell - Giroux - Voracek
Simmonds - Schennn - Read
Laughton - Couturier - McGinn
Rinaldo - Talbot - xxxxxxxx

Coburn - Grossmann
Schenn - Gustafsson
xxxxxxx - xxxxxxxx

Bryzgalov
xxxxxxxx

You have three first rounders, one potentially fairly high. You could either use all three in this deep draft. Or you can package them for a top end defenseman.

Will three 1st rounders get us an RFA OEL, Pietrangelo, or Bogosian?
If the Flyers are shipping players out of town, Coburn has punched his ticket to be moved as well. This was to be the season that he was to ascend to being the number one guy here and he's failed. Add him to the pot and see who's willing to make a deal for him.

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02-26-2013, 12:34 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
If the Flyers are shipping players out of town, Coburn has punched his ticket to be moved as well. This was to be the season that he was to ascend to being the number one guy here and he's failed. Add him to the pot and see who's willing to make a deal for him.
If you're shipping out Coburn, you might as well ship out Luke Schenn and Grossmann too. Let the rebuild start with Gustafsson....


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02-26-2013, 12:45 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
If the Flyers are shipping players out of town, Coburn has punched his ticket to be moved as well. This was to be the season that he was to ascend to being the number one guy here and he's failed. Add him to the pot and see who's willing to make a deal for him.
I'd counter that their defensive situation is too fragile to singularly deal Coburn, despite his deficiencies. I like – and I'm pretty certain this is your point, too – the idea of Coburn + to land a true #1 defenseman. What that + represents is anyone's guess. I don't think Meszaros has too much trade value, given how fragile he has proven to be.

Also, I doubt Timonen would waive his NTC. The fact that he signed a 1-year deal here, IMHO, means he wanted to avoid being trade bait. Holmgren messed the bed big time by signing Timonen so early in the season for a cap-bruising amount.

Brière? I'm not sold on teams offering up a 1st for him. That's probably me being a pessimist. Assuming Holmgren could get Brière to agree to a trade, getting a 1st in the 20-25 range would still put them around where Ristolainen is presently expected to be taken by Craig Button, or Hagg (ISS).

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02-26-2013, 12:49 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
If you're shipping out Coburn, you might as well ship out Luke Schenn and Grossmann too. Let the rebuild start with Gustafsson....

Coburn is not a defenseman to build around. What part of that do you not understand Chris? You're pretty much the only guy on here who consistently defends perhaps the most inconsistent defender on this club. He does this year in and year out. He's terrible for a stretch, starts to turn it around, just when you think he's about to break through he reverts to being terrible and then plays well come playoff time. The Flyers need Coburn to bring it every game, not just games in April and May. I'm done with Coburn and his inconsistent play. It's like clockwork.

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02-26-2013, 12:56 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by dawkins121 View Post
I would do it just because Shattenkirk would bring better puck moving a speed better than any other d-man on the team. We had Gus out in the last minute of yesterday's game just because he is far and away our second best puck handling defenseman. Gus! Throw in the fact that Timonen is clearly a shell of his former self and ices the puck more than he starts effective breakouts and I think a Coburn-Shattenkirk swap would be a huge boon for the team.
When your #6 D-man is your #2 puck moving defenceman...you are going to have issues. I would do that deal too!

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02-26-2013, 01:02 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
I'd counter that their defensive situation is too fragile to singularly deal Coburn, despite his deficiencies. I like – and I'm pretty certain this is your point, too – the idea of Coburn + to land a true #1 defenseman. What that + represents is anyone's guess. I don't think Meszaros has too much trade value, given how fragile he has proven to be.
I think Meszaros's shoulders are shot. He's had problems with both shoulders and I think this is the end of the line for him. As for Coburn, I think someone will be enticed by the package. I'm sure that other teams see him for what he is, but you know that there's a pro scout out there who will believe that if you put Coburn in "their" system, he'll flourish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Also, I doubt Timonen would waive his NTC. The fact that he signed a 1-year deal here, IMHO, means he wanted to avoid being trade bait. Holmgren messed the bed big time by signing Timonen so early in the season for a cap-bruising amount.
I think Timonen could go either way. If he wants to play for a Stanley Cup contender and not be part of retool, I could see him waive the NTC and I could see someone wanting to deal for him. If you limit Timonen's minutes to 22 minutes a night, he's still an incredibly effective defenseman.

If Timonen wants to stay, then I think the Flyers need to have a talk with him and let him know that Stanley Cup contention is probably out of the cards for 2 - 3 seasons and that if he stays, he'll be relegated to second pairing duty with 20 to 22 minutes a night of playing time. He'll be used primarily to help groom the next wave of defenseman.

Either way, the ball is in Kimmo's hands and if he decides to move on, I don't think it's going to be very hard to move his contract.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BernieParent View Post
Brière? I'm not sold on teams offering up a 1st for him. That's probably me being a pessimist. Assuming Holmgren could get Brière to agree to a trade, getting a 1st in the 20-25 range would still put them around where Ristolainen is presently expected to be taken by Craig Button, or Hagg (ISS).
I think Briere can land a first. He's money come playoff time, as long as you have a player who is a strong defensive presence to cover for him. He's instant offense in the second season and a team that wants to add that offensive punch won't have any problems making a deal for him. I'm just not sure if Holmgren will want to move Briere because Briere is a favourite amongst upper management and the owner. That might be the only reason he doesn't get moved.

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Old
02-26-2013, 01:12 PM
  #67
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You really think Snider is going to let the team get blown up ? ****ing doubt it. Odds are he has a gun to homers head to trade our first and our prospects for some project player or on the brink of retirement.

Grim future
they can trade without blowing up the team. The core of this team is 25 and under. You are going to have a lot of inconsistent nights.

They could move Briere (Bruins/Leafs) and Fedetenko without affecting their playoff chances.

Pick up Gagne for a 3rd.

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02-26-2013, 01:19 PM
  #68
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I'd sooner move Meszaros than Grossmann. Meszaros was great in 10-11 but hasn't been able to stay healthy. Grossmann has been an absolute rock when he's played.

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02-26-2013, 01:35 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
If the Flyers are shipping players out of town, Coburn has punched his ticket to be moved as well. This was to be the season that he was to ascend to being the number one guy here and he's failed. Add him to the pot and see who's willing to make a deal for him.
lots of guys aren't #1s but it doesn't mean they aren't good core players. are you going to take another team's #2?

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02-26-2013, 01:40 PM
  #70
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What coburn is .... A reliable top 5 mobile big defense man that is physically capable of handling any player. and playing upwards of 25 minutes plus.

What coburn isn't.... a number 1 dman that can play on the pp and score 30-40 pts a season.


For 4.5 million i cant find too many guys that can do what coburn does. If you look at him in the true sense of being a nubmer 1 he isnt. But he is still a valuable player.


Getting rid of him would be silly.

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02-26-2013, 01:44 PM
  #71
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i thought Testwuide was playing for McGinn. Knuble was already in the lineup with McGinn. They called up Testwuide and he played over McGinn.
Testwuide has not played an NHL game. And he was traded to Calgary yesterday.

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02-26-2013, 01:46 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Coburn is not a defenseman to build around. What part of that do you not understand Chris? You're pretty much the only guy on here who consistently defends perhaps the most inconsistent defender on this club. He does this year in and year out. He's terrible for a stretch, starts to turn it around, just when you think he's about to break through he reverts to being terrible and then plays well come playoff time. The Flyers need Coburn to bring it every game, not just games in April and May. I'm done with Coburn and his inconsistent play. It's like clockwork.
coburn is inconistent but he is rarely horrible.
he is above average and can be shut down during the playoffs. There are very few consistently shutdown d men in this league not named Weber, Chara, Staal.

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02-26-2013, 01:46 PM
  #73
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With a guy like Lindy Ruff available to coach this team, why not fire Laviolette and bring in Ruff. Play out the remainder of the season and see whether they improve.
I'd also love to see Holmgren fired. I am tired of the same (Bob Clarke) style of building this club. It's time to become a 21st century Flyers team.....instead of constantly trying to rehash the Broad Street Bullies!

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02-26-2013, 01:50 PM
  #74
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I am alright with moving some of our defense for the reason they have not gotten it done for the last couple years. Coburn/Kimmo/Mez have been here for a good time now, and they still have not taken us far into the cup. We went with Chris Pronger playing almost 30 mins a night. There was a time when Coburn scored 9 goals in a season, we are lucky to see 5 from him anymore. I have never seen a player like that just not shoot the puck. It astounds me because he has a cannon, just can't hit the ocean. We changed the offense all around from our cup run, now maybe it's time to think about changing the offense up.

Players that should be untouchable:
L. Schenn
B. Schenn
Couturier
Giroux
Simmonds
Hartnell

Players I would be willing to move in the right deal:
Voracek(has to be a really really good move)
Read(I think the UFA status next year would play a big part here.)
Coburn
Grossmann(really like him, but if he can get a big return, you think about it)

Players that I would't mind see being moves:
Briere
Feds
Knuble
Talbot

Unlike some of you, I don't think Homer makes a move out of panic. He only makes those moves when he hurts himself with the salary cap(assistant GM is a fool for that as well). He won't make a move that will hurt this teams future, he repeatedly has said that.(I know I know he lies through his teeth). I believe it when he says that. He likes the way we are built with the youth, we just need to help get some younger potential on that back end. If we can acquire a young potential defender around 22-23 years old and draft an 18 year old, we can help this extremely young team grow together.

EDIT: Coburn also has a modified no trade. I don't know what the details are but he probably can list a number(10) of teams he won't go to.


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Old
02-26-2013, 02:04 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
Coburn is not a defenseman to build around. What part of that do you not understand Chris? You're pretty much the only guy on here who consistently defends perhaps the most inconsistent defender on this club. He does this year in and year out. He's terrible for a stretch, starts to turn it around, just when you think he's about to break through he reverts to being terrible and then plays well come playoff time. The Flyers need Coburn to bring it every game, not just games in April and May. I'm done with Coburn and his inconsistent play. It's like clockwork.
Coburn is a great partner for a good defensemen but he can't carry a pair himself. The problem is the Flyers defense is full of good to great complimentary defensemen but no anchors. If you had to package him to get a better defensemen, it would make sense but now you are talking about the level of defensemen that is not available for trade. Those thinking that the Flyers can get OEL or Pietrangelo are dreaming. If Nashville, a team that gets revenue sharing, is matching the Weber contract which was worth more than the franchise, every team is.

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