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HNIC shows new potential alignment with 16 teams in "east" groupings

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02-26-2013, 11:06 AM
  #626
patnyrnyg
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Originally Posted by canuckster19 View Post
This is beginning to sound way more complicated than it needs to be, have two conferences with 4 divisions, 1-4 make the playoffs, in the east if 5B has a better record than 4A move 5B to A division playoffs and when the league expands to 32 and everyone is nice and happy, scrap the crossover. I don't understand why they are trying to reinvent the wheel here.
Because people are whining about "fairness". Heaven Forbid the 17th place team in the league overall gets in over the 16th place team in the league.

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02-26-2013, 11:07 AM
  #627
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
Why are so many people here complaining about 1 Time Zone difference. Truly, that is Nothing. Chicago, St Louis, Nashville, they'd all be happy to have Detroit in their Division, 1 TZ away. Vancouver wouldn't want to give up the Alberta teams, 1 TZ away. Detroit and Toronto would likely be happy if they could add Chicago into a Division with them. Dallas would still probably cheer to be in a Division with teams only 1 TZ away. Nashville and Atlanta would probably have like to have been in a Division together.

If whatever the new alignment is only has a max of 2 TZs in any particular Division then that's a big plus over the current situation, and it's nothing to be griping about if in a crossover matchup that might happen a team might have to play against a team only 1 TZ away.
Do we REALLY need to explain "why" again? Haven't people been explaining it to you for 3 days? It is not people on this site, it is the TEAMS that are complaining.

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02-26-2013, 11:13 AM
  #628
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I think your missing the point. Colorado doesn't want to play in the Pacific, Nashville doesn't want to play in the eastern time zone, and for some reason you have them with the north east instead of the south, Columbus and Detroit both want to be in the west.

The whole thing is basically because of time zones. This proposal moves Dallas, Colorado, Winnipeg, Detroit, and Columbus into divisions that actually help them. Your proposal is just creating the same problems.
You're making up things, aren't you. Where have you heard that Colorado didn't want to be in that Pacific Division/Conference, which btw includes all the other MTZ teams? For Colorado, it probably doesn't really matter a whole lot whether they're in the Pacific of the Central. They're now proposed to be in the Central simply because there was a vacancy that had to be filled because both Columbus and Detroit were put into eastern Conferences.

Amd as for Nashville, LOL... they were part of the 3-way fight in 2011 to take Atlanta's spot in the SE Division. Almost any of those CTZ teams would be happy to be added in with those ETZ markets.

Don't be filling posts with fairy tales just to bolster your argument.

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02-26-2013, 11:18 AM
  #629
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Per the latest tweets by McKenzie it seems that for the last spots in each conference, the two "western" conferences will be grouped together and the two "eastern" conferences will be grouped together. This would avoid the issue of say Boston playing Vancouver in round one.

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02-26-2013, 11:19 AM
  #630
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
For Colorado, it probably doesn't really matter a whole lot whether they're in the Pacific of the Central.

*snip*

Don't be filling posts with fairy tales just to bolster your argument.
Who needs fairy tales when there are facts to be considered? Fact is, Colorado's travel is significantly less in the current proposal vs. the previous one from the NHL.

Old Proposal (in miles)
COL - SJS - 962
COL - PHO - 584
COL - ANA - 822
COL - LAK - 832
COL - VAN - 1103
COL - CAL - 895
COL - EDM - 1032
6032 - total distance one way
890 - average distance one way

Current Proposal
COL - WPG - 797
COL - MIN - 703
COL - CHI - 917
COL - STL - 792
COL - NSH - 730
COL - DAL - 664
4603 - total distance one way
767 - average distance one way

That's an improvement of over a hundred miles, one way. I'd say that matters.

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02-26-2013, 11:19 AM
  #631
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Because people are whining about "fairness". Heaven Forbid the 17th place team in the league overall gets in over the 16th place team in the league.
Jeez, two seasons ago I think it was that 6, 7 and 8 in the EC were 17th-19th in the league, I didn't hear much complaining then.

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02-26-2013, 11:21 AM
  #632
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Originally Posted by Jetsfan79 View Post
Regarding the latest news that it will be top 3 in each conference and 4 wildcards, I only see one scenario that would be the least complicated and IMHO - the best option:
Have the 4 conference winners (reg season) ranked league wide 1-4 based on best overall record of those 4 teams.
The 4 wildcards spots would be the best teams of the remaining 18 teams from all the conferences. The top wild card seed would play the conference winner with the least amount of points and the lowest wild card seed would play the conference winner with the most amount of points ( and president's trouphy winner.)

in other words:

Conference winner ranked 1st would play wild card winner # 4
Conference winner ranked 2nd would play wild card winner # 3
Conference winner ranked 3rd would play wild card winner # 2
Conference winner ranked 4th would play wild card winner # 1
Why punish the Top-seed with such unpredicably located 1st Round matchups? The Top-seed should get the lowest Playoff seed in its own Conference/Division, and not be possibly matched up against a team in another Conference, who knows how many TZs away.
Crossover matchups, if they're needed, should be between the middle seeds in two Conferences with odd numbers of Playoff teams, plain and simple.

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02-26-2013, 11:21 AM
  #633
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They should just have 1 30 team conference. Top 16 make the playoffs.

Each team plays each other 3 times, and have an 87 game schedule.

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02-26-2013, 11:23 AM
  #634
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Originally Posted by Icedog2735 View Post
Per the latest tweets by McKenzie it seems that for the last spots in each conference, the two "western" conferences will be grouped together and the two "eastern" conferences will be grouped together. This would avoid the issue of say Boston playing Vancouver in round one.
Well that's just ridiculous, there isn't a huge difference in playing Nashville compared Boston in the first round for Vancouver's part.

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02-26-2013, 11:23 AM
  #635
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Originally Posted by PumpkinBomb View Post
They should just have 1 30 team conference. Top 16 make the playoffs.

Each team plays each other 3 times, and have an 87 game schedule.
That would be terrible. I would lose interest in the league real fast.

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02-26-2013, 11:26 AM
  #636
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Originally Posted by guyincognito View Post
This gets sillier and sillier. First I thought they wanted to develop playoff rivalries. Now it's being reported that there's going to be a global crossover in the first round?

That can't be right at all. I could see a regional crossover, but if they have a situation where they could cross over Calgary or Los Angeles into the "Atlantic" Division in the first round, it's pretty much selling a line of ****.
That's why there should be two Conferences with two Divisions each. And especially if all the ETZ teams are actually going to be in the East, then there'd be no risk of an ETZ matchup with a PTZ team in that Western Conference.

This alignment, with a Playoff crossover allowed, screams for a 4 Division, 2 Conference structure.

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02-26-2013, 11:26 AM
  #637
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
That would be terrible. I would lose interest in the league real fast.
Really? I'm sick of watching my favourite team play the same teams.

I mentioned this in another thread but i've been traveling a lot for work this year and have seen a lot of games in other cities, teams i normally wouldn't see and it's really renewed my love for hockey.

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02-26-2013, 11:27 AM
  #638
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Originally Posted by Icedog2735 View Post
Per the latest tweets by McKenzie it seems that for the last spots in each conference, the two "western" conferences will be grouped together and the two "eastern" conferences will be grouped together. This would avoid the issue of say Boston playing Vancouver in round one.
Exact quotes:

Quote:
Top 3 teams in each of two 8-team East conferences make the playoffs. Two wild cards from remaining 10 East teams also make the playoffs.
Quote:
Top 3 teams in each of two 7-team West conferences make playoffs. Two wild cards from remaining 8 West teams also make the playoffs.
Quote:
Playoff format remains old divisional style, 1 vs. 4, 2 vs. 3 though it remains to be seen how the wild cards are slotted for first-round.
https://twitter.com/TSNBobMcKenzie

This is much better than the league-wide scramble. Though, I still don't see why it needs to be applied to the Western teams, since they've already got the mathematically better chances of qualifying. And I still prefer the simple top-four qualifications. But I can live with it.

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02-26-2013, 11:32 AM
  #639
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, but on Saturday night didn't Friedman say a wild card was for the two 8-conference teams only? If that is the case, maybe the cross-over would only apply to the 2 "Eastern" conferences. So, if the Rangers finished 5th in the Atlantic with 90 points and the Bruins finish 4th in the northeast with 89 points, the Rangers can bump out the Bruins and then play the northeast conference champ? Where in the 2 "western" conferences, it would be strictly top 4 pout of 7? Stupid idea, but not as stupid as the possibility of having an LA-NY first round match-up.
This Could still possibly be true, patnyr. Though it seems that the PA doesn't want any 5th place teams missing the Playoffs if they have better records than 4th place teams in other Conferences.

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02-26-2013, 11:34 AM
  #640
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Originally Posted by PumpkinBomb View Post
They should just have 1 30 team conference. Top 16 make the playoffs.

Each team plays each other 3 times, and have an 87 game schedule.
That would be terrible and increase travel tenfold. You think anyone (NHL/PA) would ever sign off on a system where Vancouver could go to Tampa in the first round of the playoffs?!

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02-26-2013, 11:35 AM
  #641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PumpkinBomb View Post
Really? I'm sick of watching my favourite team play the same teams.

I mentioned this in another thread but i've been traveling a lot for work this year and have seen a lot of games in other cities, teams i normally wouldn't see and it's really renewed my love for hockey.
AHL doesn't, PumpkinBomb, and we have 6 5 team divisions in each conference, travel is the main issue, bc not all teams are owned by the NHL club, but not all AHL Teams play each other, you have to impress the franchise you follow into playing the opposite conference, but when you do the bottom line is the League makes the final decision, just as the NHL BOG does on most of its issues.

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02-26-2013, 11:36 AM
  #642
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Originally Posted by garry1221 View Post
If the wildcard isn't between 4th and 5th of the same conference then the whole idea should be scrapped. If they insist on a wildcard, there has to be an easy, simple way of describing it to the casual fan. If there's some crazy covoluted formula, then 'joe casual', whose team is in 4th, but got wildcarded out of a playoff berth is going to ask wth am I even supposed to care?. Like others have said, teams w more points have missed out before due to divisional playoff rules, why not now? What's so high and mighty about teams in this day and age compared to teams back then? If anyone can truly remember any kind of grievance filed due to team x in conf a having more points than team y in conference b, yet missing out on a playoff berth due to being in a stronger conference, please let us know. I know there was no real internet back then, but surely it would have made the news somewhere.
That whole idea is just the biggest load of nonsense I've heard discussed here. Within the same Conference, after 82 games have been played, the Standings are the Standings. There's no reason why the 5th place team should get yet another chance to maybe overtake the 4th place team for a Playoff seed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
This realignment is stupid if there are no divisional playoffs.
How can you say that? In both the 1st two Rounds there will be at least 3/4 Divisional matchups. 6/8, 7/8, or 8/8 in the 1st Round; and 3/4 or 4/4 in the 2nd Round.


Last edited by MoreOrr: 02-26-2013 at 12:13 PM. Reason: typo
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02-26-2013, 11:37 AM
  #643
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Jeez, two seasons ago I think it was that 6, 7 and 8 in the EC were 17th-19th in the league, I didn't hear much complaining then.
You mean the year the Flyers made the finals? Yeah, that year, the Flyers and Canadiens were 18th and 19th in the league, both behind Calgary, Anaheim, and St.Louis in overall standings, and none of those 3 teams made the playoffs in the West.

If there's not much complaining about it, that's because it was the Flyers and Canadiens. Two important franchises that the league and most fans would love to have in the playoffs even if they were the worst two teams in the league. They happened to be the two teams that made the conference finals in the East that year, but that's not the point.

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02-26-2013, 11:38 AM
  #644
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Having the Wildcard teams in the West is stupid. Say the Wilcard teams are both from the "central" division and the top 3 teams in the West are Vancouver, San Jose, Anaheim. San Jose and Anaheim while potentially playing a tougher opponent have a much nicer travel schedule for the 1st round, while the Canucks who lets say finished ahead of them will have to go 2 timezones over in their 1st rd series. If you are going to go with divisional playoffs, don't mess with it and add this stupid wildcard rule.

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02-26-2013, 11:42 AM
  #645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
That's why there should be two Conferences with two Divisions each. And especially if all the ETZ teams are actually going to be in the East, then there'd be no risk of an ETZ matchup with a PTZ team in that Western Conference.

This alignment, with a Playoff crossover allowed, screams for a 4 Division, 2 Conference structure.
you watch the crossover be tossed out, the 1st chance it happens, MO, it's an abject failure and doesn't fix, then who pays attention to the 4 conference champions, then, because everyone will be focused on the cross-over, not who's already in....

The AHL tossed that in favor of the 3 division alignment similar to what this forum is based upon, because all everyone focused on was how many points were you behind the cross-over slot in the opposite division.... it doesn't matter if it's one team from the same conference swapping divisions for 2 months, if you don't qualify in the division you're assigned, then you're done.

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02-26-2013, 11:42 AM
  #646
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This Could still possibly be true, patnyr. Though it seems that the PA doesn't want any 5th place teams missing the Playoffs if they have better records than 4th place teams in other Conferences.
Problem is, this system greatly increases the travel (and more importantly, the time-zone differences) if it is applied to the Western Conference teams. Last year would have seen Division winner STL being punished by traveling across timezones to visit LAK. Their weakest in-division team was CHI, with 101 pts. The year prior might have had PHO @ NSH; then maybe CLG @ CHI in 2009-2010; and ANA @ CHI in 2008-2009. So much for winning the division, eh?

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02-26-2013, 11:46 AM
  #647
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Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun

According to NHL memo sent to 30 teams, no longer is the idea to go to 4 conferences, but rather 2 conferences with two divisions each.

https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/...58541743566848

Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun

The Eastern Conference would have the Atlantic and Central divisions, the Western Conference would have the Mid-West and Pacific divisions

https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/...58948356153344

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02-26-2013, 11:46 AM
  #648
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Originally Posted by crazycanuck View Post
Having the Wildcard teams in the West is stupid. Say the Wilcard teams are both from the "central" division and the top 3 teams in the West are Vancouver, San Jose, Anaheim. San Jose and Anaheim while potentially playing a tougher opponent have a much nicer travel schedule for the 1st round, while the Canucks who lets say finished ahead of them will have to go 2 timezones over in their 1st rd series. If you are going to go with divisional playoffs, don't mess with it and add this stupid wildcard rule.
The only thing I could see to make this reasonably fair would be to give the first seed of the division that gets the crossover team a choice between playing their third seed or the wild card team, although that isn't exactly fair to the 3rd seed either.

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02-26-2013, 11:48 AM
  #649
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Originally Posted by redwings8831 View Post
Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun

According to NHL memo sent to 30 teams, no longer is the idea to go to 4 conferences, but rather 2 conferences with two divisions each.

https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/...58541743566848

Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun

The Eastern Conference would have the Atlantic and Central divisions, the Western Conference would have the Mid-West and Pacific divisions

https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/...58948356153344
Excellent news. Hopefully this means the current playoff format stays the same (no divisional playoffs) and we still get the two Conference Finals and the Stanley Cup Finals.

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02-26-2013, 11:48 AM
  #650
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Originally Posted by garry1221 View Post
How do you choose 'the best' 16 teams without playing each and every team in the league exactly the same number of times? Thus resulting in a leaguewide 1 - 16 seeding. If you look through this thread, you'll see the league pretty quicky did away with that scenario. A scenario like that would result in an 87 or 100+ regular season schedule.
Here's the hypocrisy I see here. People want all these Home-and-Home games against every team in the League. And then they argue that those games outside the Conference don't mean anything... 'How can the League possibly choose a Top-16 or a Top-8 if teams only play each other 2 times?'...
So I ask, Why the hell waste some many games in a Season if those games don't serve any ranking purpose??

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