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Old
02-26-2013, 11:37 AM
  #851
Brian Boyle
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
LOL I'm lost in my own analogy.

Yeah, they do. It's very strange... But I can't think of a way to handle it unless they do one 8 and on 7 group of friends on each side
Yeah, and I guess one of Columbus or Detroit would be upset with that.

I guess it does offset the imbalance some.

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Old
02-26-2013, 11:54 AM
  #852
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Well. Be fair. This is another franchise that tanked for years on end to land their two franchise forwards.

Keith is a second round pick.
Seabrook and Leddy are first round picks.

Hossa was a free agent.

The Rangers defense is comparable. McDonagh, Staal, Del Zotto were first round picks. Girardi undrafted. Stralman a 7th round pick free agent.

Our goaltending is superior.

The HUGE difference is with our forwards. A mash up of two overpaid free agents, one high priced trade acquisition.

The identity among the forward corp is lost right now.

And like Chicago did, LA, and others before them, the Rangers will have to rid themselves of some fat and retool to fit the identity they are seeking if they want to win.

Richards and Gaborik need to be gone.

They need to shore up the center position. Teams win down the middle, defense, and goaltending.

O'Reilly
Stepan
Miller

Would be a good start in the middle.

Focus on wingers with speed and work ethic. No more overpaid disinterested disengaged fragile divas on the wing.

The Rangers can find their success being built more akin to what the Devils were (as much as we don't want to hear it or admit it) because that's what we are when we are successful. Elite goaltending, deep defense, strong down the middle, fast, tenacious, and very stingy defensively.

We aren't the Black Hawks. We aren't the Penguins. We need to stop trying to be them.
This is a very good post and I agree with the overall majority of your points. However, I would tweak it a bit in saying the following:

-our defense while good still needs a big, physical crease clearing guy.

-while ROR, D-Step and Miller would be a solid group of centers, we still need a legit #1 center(Getzlaf-?) with size.

I'm with you though on getting rid of Richards(compliance buyout-?) and
Gaborik(trade-?).

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02-26-2013, 11:58 AM
  #853
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Not a huge fan. New rivals are Columbus, Canes? We've played the Caps enough in the playoffs for that to work.

Why does no realignment proposal have us with the Sabres or Bruins?

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02-26-2013, 12:03 PM
  #854
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Not a huge fan. New rivals are Columbus, Canes? We've played the Caps enough in the playoffs for that to work.

Why does no realignment proposal have us with the Sabres or Bruins?
My guess? The Sabres/Bruins need to be with WPG, MON, OTT, TOR due to their rivalries/proximity.

Due to that unless you want to move the Rangers away from Philly, NJ, NYI, Pitt than it can't be done. Plus when there eventually is another TOR based team, they would go into that division as well.

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02-26-2013, 12:10 PM
  #855
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Personally don't like the playoff format. What is the point of making 4 sub conferences, if the playoff format is still east-west? And eliminates the importance of divisions/conferences?

It should be top 4 in each conference.

First TWO rounds should be conference play. Leaving ONE winner from each conference.

Re-seed.

1-4
2-3

Last two face each other for the Cup.

Plain and simple.

NO MORE east-west. It severely limits the possibilities of what a Stanley Cup Final match up could be.

Imagine Red Wings-Black Hawks?

Rangers-Bruins?

Expand the league by two teams. Seattle and Kansas City. Gives both of the western-most conferences their 8th team each.

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Old
02-26-2013, 12:12 PM
  #856
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I still think that one of Columbus or Detroit will have to stay in the Western "conference" to make it even.

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Old
02-26-2013, 12:21 PM
  #857
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbackatu View Post
This is a very good post and I agree with the overall majority of your points. However, I would tweak it a bit in saying the following:

-our defense while good still needs a big, physical crease clearing guy.

-while ROR, D-Step and Miller would be a solid group of centers, we still need a legit #1 center(Getzlaf-?) with size.

I'm with you though on getting rid of Richards(compliance buyout-?) and
Gaborik(trade-?).
I feel McIlrath will be that big, physical defenseman we need. He's playing well in Hartford.

I don't think we need a true 'elite' type of center. Just a group of guys that get the job done. O'Reilly and Stepan are legit #1-#2 centers right now, by their mid-20's they'll be regarded highly. Don't want another long contract UFA, Getzlaf has had injuries in his past. I'd rather the team be about the team, not about the individual.

Jonathan Toews isn't a 100 point or even 90 point player. He's on average in the high 60s. One time past that.

O'Reilly and Stepan have that kind of upside as far as point production goes. 60+ points. And they are two way forwards that play in all situations. PK, PP, 5v5...

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02-26-2013, 12:27 PM
  #858
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Well. Be fair. This is another franchise that tanked for years on end to land their two franchise forwards..
Hawks sucked for almost a decade ,, We didn't tank

Wirtz didn't give a damn about fielding a quality roster

Before Hawks got lucky with Toews (#3) and Kane (#1 on Lotto win) we had to endure alot of mistakes at draft

Not to mention the year the Hawks were supposed to pick #2 and get a franchise player the Caps won lotto and screwed the Hawks out of Malkin

Getting the honor of drafting Cam Barker 3rd overall is not something to be happy about

Thankfully hockey gods righted the injustice at 2007 lotto (Hawks should have been picking 5th)

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Old
02-26-2013, 12:29 PM
  #859
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I feel McIlrath will be that big, physical defenseman we need. He's playing well in Hartford.

I don't think we need a true 'elite' type of center. Just a group of guys that get the job done. O'Reilly and Stepan are legit #1-#2 centers right now, by their mid-20's they'll be regarded highly. Don't want another long contract UFA, Getzlaf has had injuries in his past. I'd rather the team be about the team, not about the individual.

Jonathan Toews isn't a 100 point or even 90 point player. He's on average in the high 60s. One time past that.

O'Reilly and Stepan have that kind of upside as far as point production goes. 60+ points. And they are two way forwards that play in all situations. PK, PP, 5v5...
Serious question:

Who on the Bruins would anyone consider an elite forward? Bergeron? Not really. Seguin? No. Lucic? No.

They have a crazy amount of good depth. Great defense and good goaltending. The Rangers are attempting to build the same thing. It's obvious. The Gaborik's and Richards' of the world don't really fit that mold. ROR? Yes. Getzlaf? Yes.

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02-26-2013, 12:31 PM
  #860
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Serious question:

Who on the Bruins would anyone consider an elite forward? Bergeron? Not really. Seguin? No. Lucic? No.

They have a crazy amount of good depth. Great defense and good goaltending. The Rangers are attempting to build the same thing. It's obvious. The Gaborik's and Richards' of the world don't really fit that mold. ROR? Yes. Getzlaf? Yes.
I agree.

And I'd include the Devils.

I know Getzlaf would fit, just really afraid of giving out another long contract to a guy with a history of injuries.

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Old
02-26-2013, 12:32 PM
  #861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Hawks sucked for almost a decade ,, We didn't tank

Wirtz didn't give a damn about fielding a quality roster

Before Hawks got lucky with Toews (#3) and Kane (#1 on Lotto win) we had to endure alot of mistakes at draft

Not to mention the year the Hawks were supposed to pick #2 and get a franchise player the Caps won lotto and screwed the Hawks out of Malkin

Getting the honor of drafting Cam Barker 3rd overall is not something to be happy about

Thankfully hockey gods righted the injustice at 2007 lotto (Hawks should have been picking 5th)
Not to mention your scouts made out like bandits with their 2nd to late round picks. And the Flyers handed you Sharp on a silver platter

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02-26-2013, 12:33 PM
  #862
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Hawks sucked for almost a decade ,, We didn't tank

Wirtz didn't give a damn about fielding a quality roster

Before Hawks got lucky with Toews (#3) and Kane (#1 on Lotto win) we had to endure alot of mistakes at draft

Not to mention the year the Hawks were supposed to pick #2 and get a franchise player the Caps won lotto and screwed the Hawks out of Malkin

Getting the honor of drafting Cam Barker 3rd overall is not something to be happy about

Thankfully hockey gods righted the injustice at 2007 lotto (Hawks should have been picking 5th)
Well, whatever the Hawks are doing now, it's pretty incredible.

I want to see how they handle some adversity, though.

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Old
02-26-2013, 12:34 PM
  #863
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
I agree.

And I'd include the Devils.

I know Getzlaf would fit, just really afraid of giving out anotherlong contract to a guy with a history of injuries.
I agree, but the good thing with Getzlaf is that his contract will end when he is 34/35. With his size, vision and strength he will be a monster on the top-2 lines for a long time. Great leader as well.

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Old
02-26-2013, 12:35 PM
  #864
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Not to mention your scouts made out like bandits with their 2nd to late round picks. And the Flyers handed you Sharp on a silver platter
It also helps that the CHI GM was able to fully stock their system with good young players/picks moving Barker, Byfuglien, Versteeg, etc as well. They maximized their assets. Great job. Wish the Rangers would do the same

Jus' sayin'

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Old
02-26-2013, 12:38 PM
  #865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Hawks sucked for almost a decade ,, We didn't tank

Wirtz didn't give a damn about fielding a quality roster

Before Hawks got lucky with Toews (#3) and Kane (#1 on Lotto win) we had to endure alot of mistakes at draft

Not to mention the year the Hawks were supposed to pick #2 and get a franchise player the Caps won lotto and screwed the Hawks out of Malkin

Getting the honor of drafting Cam Barker 3rd overall is not something to be happy about

Thankfully hockey gods righted the injustice at 2007 lotto (Hawks should have been picking 5th)



Two years of top 3 picks is tanking? News to me.

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02-26-2013, 12:43 PM
  #866
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Serious question:

Who on the Bruins would anyone consider an elite forward? Bergeron? Not really. Seguin? No. Lucic? No.

They have a crazy amount of good depth. Great defense and good goaltending. The Rangers are attempting to build the same thing. It's obvious. The Gaborik's and Richards' of the world don't really fit that mold. ROR? Yes. Getzlaf? Yes.

Which is why I dont think (with Richards and Gaborik) that the plan was always to build like the Bruins. Not with acquiring those two. They dont fit the current system. Gaborik was acquired because we needed a sniper badly in 2009, and the system came a while after Tortorella realized his personnel wasnt fit for his more open, aggressive "Safe is Death" hockey. He adjusted and here we are.

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02-26-2013, 12:44 PM
  #867
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So wasn't one of the reasons for not simply switching Columbus and Winnipeg that the Blue Jackets simply couldn't be moved out of the central division due to their "rivalries"?

I really don't see any major benefits of this new alignment that justifies the imbalance between east and west. And divisional playoffs but wildcards? I'm completely puzzled how that works out.

And as mentioned: If there is expansion or even only relocation, the Toronto area will be one of the very first candidates for a new team. That will screw the aligment again though and someone will have to move back west anyway.

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02-26-2013, 12:46 PM
  #868
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Not to mention your scouts made out like bandits with their 2nd to late round picks. And the Flyers handed you Sharp on a silver platter
Mike Smith gets alot of flak in Chicago because as GM his trades were mostly awful , His Russians heartless bums and his 1st draft was absolute failure (Yakubov and Vorobiev back to back in 1st round)

But he did get Hawks on right path and his drafting really was underated (Picked alot of NHL talent)

Tallon sucked at everything but trades ,, He had alot of steals and the Sharp deal is #1

Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Well, whatever the Hawks are doing now, it's pretty incredible.

I want to see how they handle some adversity, though.
I am not to worried to be honest. Hawk players expect to lose at some point and this is a vet core with cup experience so losing wont throw them into downward spiral IMO

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
It also helps that the CHI GM was able to fully stock their system with good young players/picks moving Barker, Byfuglien, Versteeg, etc as well. They maximized their assets. Great job. Wish the Rangers would do the same

Jus' sayin'
Bowman actually didn't get all that great of value looking back on it outside of Barker deal. Looking at young players/prospects/assets acquired in end

Barker trade = D Nick Leddy
Versteeg trade = LW/RW Viktor Stalberg , LW Phillipe Paradis and Chris Didomenico
Byfuglien trade = LW Jeremy Morin , 1st round pick (W/C Kevin Hayes) and 2nd round pick (D Justin Holl)
Ladd trade = D Ivan Vishnevskiy and 2nd round pick (D Adam Clendening)

Barker deal was HR by Stan Bowman but really not alot of quality so far from rest

Stalberg is solid NHL'er now , Morin is a above average prospect , Hayes is a 3rd line type prospect who may or may not pan out and Clendening is a young PMD prospect

Vish went back to Russia , Paradis is bust and Dido was god awful

Really Ladd deal looks bad , Steeger deal look meh , Buff deal the jury is still out on and Leddy being amazing pickup

The system has been mostly rebuilt by Bowman's drafting /trading

- Picked Saad in rd 2 along with Clendening
- Picked McNeill and TT in round 1 with Hawks pick
- Traded Brouwer for a 1st round pick (Used on Danault)
- Traded for Jimmy Hayes at 2010 draft (Moving a 2nd for him)
- Selected Shaw in 5th round

Dale Tallon left the Hawks system empty (High busts like Beach/Skille) , Weak 1st rounder like Olsen , etc

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02-26-2013, 12:53 PM
  #869
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
It also helps that the CHI GM was able to fully stock their system with good young players/picks moving Barker, Byfuglien, Versteeg, etc as well. They maximized their assets. Great job. Wish the Rangers would do the same

Jus' sayin'
Yeah good point. For as much as we seem to applaud Slats when it comes to dealing, he squanders too many assets and picks in trades or releasing them/FA.

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02-26-2013, 02:26 PM
  #870
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Mike Smith gets alot of flak in Chicago because as GM his trades were mostly awful , His Russians heartless bums and his 1st draft was absolute failure (Yakubov and Vorobiev back to back in 1st round)

But he did get Hawks on right path and his drafting really was underated (Picked alot of NHL talent)

Tallon sucked at everything but trades ,, He had alot of steals and the Sharp deal is #1



I am not to worried to be honest. Hawk players expect to lose at some point and this is a vet core with cup experience so losing wont throw them into downward spiral IMO



Bowman actually didn't get all that great of value looking back on it outside of Barker deal. Looking at young players/prospects/assets acquired in end

Barker trade = D Nick Leddy
Versteeg trade = LW/RW Viktor Stalberg , LW Phillipe Paradis and Chris Didomenico
Byfuglien trade = LW Jeremy Morin , 1st round pick (W/C Kevin Hayes) and 2nd round pick (D Justin Holl)
Ladd trade = D Ivan Vishnevskiy and 2nd round pick (D Adam Clendening)

Barker deal was HR by Stan Bowman but really not alot of quality so far from rest

Stalberg is solid NHL'er now , Morin is a above average prospect , Hayes is a 3rd line type prospect who may or may not pan out and Clendening is a young PMD prospect

Vish went back to Russia , Paradis is bust and Dido was god awful

Really Ladd deal looks bad , Steeger deal look meh , Buff deal the jury is still out on and Leddy being amazing pickup

The system has been mostly rebuilt by Bowman's drafting /trading

- Picked Saad in rd 2 along with Clendening
- Picked McNeill and TT in round 1 with Hawks pick
- Traded Brouwer for a 1st round pick (Used on Danault)
- Traded for Jimmy Hayes at 2010 draft (Moving a 2nd for him)
- Selected Shaw in 5th round

Dale Tallon left the Hawks system empty (High busts like Beach/Skille) , Weak 1st rounder like Olsen , etc
Skille isnt really a bust yea he isnt the power forward that he was projected to be, but at least made the NHL unlike Beach who i feel will be that years version of Hugh Jessiman still hasnt played one game in the NHL draft. most players from the 08 draft at least played a few games or a few seasons already in the NHL...

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Old
02-26-2013, 03:04 PM
  #871
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Quote:
Renaud Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
Simon Gagné échangé aux Flyers contre un choix de 4e ronde.
Gagne back to the Flyers for a 4th round pick

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02-26-2013, 03:08 PM
  #872
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Gagne back to the Flyers for a 4th round pick
sather couldnt offer a 3rd its not like dont have more than one

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02-26-2013, 03:13 PM
  #873
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sather couldnt offer a 3rd its not like dont have more than one
Gagne is finished. He isn't worth a 3rd...

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02-26-2013, 03:16 PM
  #874
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Without any inside knowledge of the situation, i have a feeling Sather's prime target is O'Reilly. And is going to wait on that situation to unfold.

He's a Gorton, and Tortorella, type of player.

I'm anxious for trade deadline day.

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02-26-2013, 03:18 PM
  #875
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Well, we're not trading DZ with Mac concussed.

And I would've probably considered a third for Gagne, but he is the kind of guy who isn't worth much when he isn't scoring. He hasn't been a goal threat in a long time, had a Frolov dropoff.

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