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2013 NHL Entry Draft Talk 4.0

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Old
02-26-2013, 07:39 AM
  #826
Aceekay
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I'd trade Plekanec for RNH or Seguin straight up.
You can probably get a 7-10 pick for plekanec, maybe 6 but we would have to add.

But you're not getting a top 5 pick not in this draft.

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02-26-2013, 08:29 AM
  #827
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Yeah cause NHl scouts overrate players because they speak french...
This board does

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02-26-2013, 08:34 AM
  #828
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Originally Posted by DekeLikeYouMeanIt View Post
I like Petan a lot but he's playing with some real firepower in Portland. It means he can keep up with high profile players and do well but his size is something you can't ignore. Very low 1st.
And Drouin hasn't??

Switch Petan to Halifax, he'll have same numbers as Drouin.

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02-26-2013, 08:40 AM
  #829
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And Drouin hasn't??

Switch Petan to Halifax, he'll have same numbers as Drouin.
so...less points?

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02-26-2013, 08:46 AM
  #830
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You're missing the point, he's been called a generational talent around here.
And I'm happy my diverging opinion is crap and you dont even bring any arguments

Generational talent... AND
Then you compare his HS and vision to Crosby.. DUDE do you get what you're doing here ?



I can't anymore... I just can't...

IDK if it's the fact that he's from QC, from the Q or making incredibly flashy plays but damn guys...

I'm not even trashing the kid.. You guys dont read yourselves
I love him and I'd take him on my team 9032990 times out of 10 and I'd probably take him before Jones. I'm really not bashing him, you guys are thinking out of proportion ... Crosby is elite... Kane has maybe the best passing ability in the game and he actually pulls off incredible plays a la Drouin but against mens in the NHL...

Don't get me wrong I love him too. But just slow down a bit...
When have I called him a "generational talent"?

Comparing his HS and vision to Crosby is legit. He doesn't have Crosby's all around game, motor or net drive though.

I would still take Jones 1st because he can dominate in so many ways. But from awhat I have seen Drouin and Jones are a notch above anybody else in terms of franchise/impact players.

Kane is a very good playmaker, but there are better ones...Giroux Crosby etc

I think Drouin will have a better NHL career than Kane, bigger and stronger, better character(Kane is a bit of a wingnut) and better all around player.

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02-26-2013, 08:47 AM
  #831
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Originally Posted by Mats86 View Post
This board does
This board doesn't do the TSN, Red Line or other prospect rankings.

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02-26-2013, 08:52 AM
  #832
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Originally Posted by Halifaxhab View Post
so...less points?
You misunderstand...both smallish high skilled players, but Drouin playing with future great. Numbers would be same if they switched clubs. Both players are fairly equal

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02-26-2013, 08:53 AM
  #833
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Originally Posted by Mats86 View Post
And Drouin hasn't??

Switch Petan to Halifax, he'll have same numbers as Drouin.
The opposite is true statistically. Petan has 2 teammates with better PPGM averages than MacKinnon(1.68).

Both players have great supporting casts and teams that score a pile of goals. Petan is 3rd on his team in PPGM(1.68) and Drouin is leading his team by (2.21 vs 1.68) over a half PPGM over the 2nd best guy(MacKinnon who has the same PPGM as Petan).

Over a 72 game WHL season Drouin's PPGM would give him 38 more points than Petan.


Last edited by Monctonscout: 02-26-2013 at 09:26 AM.
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02-26-2013, 09:04 AM
  #834
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Originally Posted by Mats86 View Post
You misunderstand...both smallish high skilled players, but Drouin playing with future great. Numbers would be same if they switched clubs. Both players are fairly equal
not arguing that at all. I agree actually. In Junior, both are a wash. But, in the pros, Drouin is "more likely" to demonstrate this same skill level. Petan, while a good prospect, is likely a late 1st/early 2nd.

Look at Gallagher, the guy scored 40+ goals a year, 100+ PIMs a year and he was a 5th rd pick. Why? Size.

Drouin is borderline now, and scouts usually tack on 1-2 inches 15-20 lbs to the current size as an estimate to their fully devellopped NHL aged size. Sadly Petan is in the same boat as Gallagher and will slide because of it.

So be happy, if both are a wash in your estimation. At least Montreal has a shot at getting Petan if they wanted him, which is equivalent to Drouin.

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02-26-2013, 09:45 AM
  #835
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
The opposite is true statistically. Petan has 2 teammates with better PPGM averages than MacKinnon(1.68).

Both players have great supporting casts and teams that score a pile of goals. Petan is 3rd on his team in PPGM(1.68) and Drouin is leading his team by (2.21 vs 1.68) over a half PPGM over the 2nd best guy(MacKinnon who has the same PPGM as Petan).

Over a 72 game WHL season Drouin's PPGM would give him 38 more points than Petan.
MacKinnon is future NHL star. Petan playing with nobody of that caliber. Petan raised the point totals of some linematess but none of his linemates has MacKinnon's talent. Looked how Drouin's play came down when the playing field was level like the Top Prospects Game?

Actually, would not be suprised if Petan ends up better all around player as his +/- blows Drouin out of the rink despite Drouin playing with better linemates. Quite often player taken late first round ends up better player than top picks. Drouin we have zero chance of drafting but Petan an equal player, we have an opportunity to draft.

I compared Petan's numbers to Gallagher's. At same age of 18. Where they same league and roughy same size at 18. Petan should score 80ish points at NHL someday as I have Gallagher average 50ish points NHLer. Petan higher offensively talent than Gallagher at 18. Gallagher more feisty but Petan more value also as natural center

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02-26-2013, 09:47 AM
  #836
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I do not know why we keep talking about Drouin. He will be long gone by the time we pick. Should we focus on players that are likely to be available to us?

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02-26-2013, 10:06 AM
  #837
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I'd trade Plekanec for RNH or Seguin straight up.
Yeah me too. But would you do the same for say JVR? Or Turris ? Or gudbranson?
I know I wouldn't.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceekay View Post
You can probably get a 7-10 pick for plekanec, maybe 6 but we would have to add.

But you're not getting a top 5 pick not in this draft.
...This is the kind of mentality that makes me sacrifice pigs to Satan in the barn next to my home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
When have I called him a "generational talent"?

Comparing his HS and vision to Crosby is legit. He doesn't have Crosby's all around game, motor or net drive though.

I would still take Jones 1st because he can dominate in so many ways. But from awhat I have seen Drouin and Jones are a notch above anybody else in terms of franchise/impact players.

Kane is a very good playmaker, but there are better ones...Giroux Crosby etc

I think Drouin will have a better NHL career than Kane, bigger and stronger, better character(Kane is a bit of a wingnut) and better all around player.
You haven't if you read, you'll see I never said YOU did.
It's not fair at all actually. You're comparing this to the best player in the league man... The best player since Lemieux played a game in a pens shirt....
You're selling Mackinnon short and this is sad. You know why? Because your evaluation might be flawed. Mac doesnt play a ''wow'' game a la Drouin. But he's just as effective.
I agree that Kane is a wingnut, but to even think he would score 88 points in a year might be putting too much pressure on the kid.


Then again, this is the forum where they said Yakupov would be scoring 40 goals in his first year or that Chuck would be playing first line next year.

You guys think too highly of the future and not enough of the now, or the what have you accomplished lately.

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02-26-2013, 10:18 AM
  #838
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceekay View Post
You can probably get a 7-10 pick for plekanec, maybe 6 but we would have to add.

But you're not getting a top 5 pick not in this draft.
You aren't getting a top 10 pick for Plekanec. Jordan Staal got an 8th overall pick and Staal is younger, and has size and draft pedigree. Also Plekanec has a NTC so forget about him going to a horrible team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustAHabFan View Post
I do not know why we keep talking about Drouin. He will be long gone by the time we pick. Should we focus on players that are likely to be available to us?
It's entirely because he's the best Quebecois prospect in a few years. It's time to let go though, Drouin is going top 3, forget about it. It's starting to sound like Leafs fans expecting Tavares to be their savior becuase he's from the GTA.

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02-26-2013, 11:14 AM
  #839
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
You aren't getting a top 10 pick for Plekanec. Jordan Staal got an 8th overall pick and Staal is younger, and has size and draft pedigree. Also Plekanec has a NTC so forget about him going to a horrible team.
Forget the part where he also fetched Sutter ? AND Dumoulin

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02-26-2013, 11:22 AM
  #840
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Originally Posted by Mats86 View Post
MacKinnon is future NHL star. Petan playing with nobody of that caliber. Petan raised the point totals of some linematess but none of his linemates has MacKinnon's talent. Looked how Drouin's play came down when the playing field was level like the Top Prospects Game?

Actually, would not be suprised if Petan ends up better all around player as his +/- blows Drouin out of the rink despite Drouin playing with better linemates. Quite often player taken late first round ends up better player than top picks. Drouin we have zero chance of drafting but Petan an equal player, we have an opportunity to draft.

I compared Petan's numbers to Gallagher's. At same age of 18. Where they same league and roughy same size at 18. Petan should score 80ish points at NHL someday as I have Gallagher average 50ish points NHLer. Petan higher offensively talent than Gallagher at 18. Gallagher more feisty but Petan more value also as natural center
You clearly have no idea what context is. Petan is playing with established and high profile CHLers in Leipsic and Rattie (and Rutkowski + young Bjorkstrand, etc.) backed by veteran Carruth + Seth Jones, Pouliot and Wotherspoon. That team is beyond stacked and experienced.

Mac and Drouin are playing on a good team but the depth and experience is nowhere near these guys. And Gallagher played on some really weak Vancouver teams.

I'm not saying Petan won't be better than our player but rather temper your wild expectations by putting his impressive results into context.

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02-26-2013, 12:30 PM
  #841
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Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Forget the part where he also fetched Sutter ? AND Dumoulin
Fair or not, Jordan Staal is much more highly regarded than Plekanec, and the Pens pretty much played that deal perfectly considering Staal wanted to play for the Canes. And even then, an 8th pick and a top 5 pick are very different, there's no way in hell Plekanec is going to get you Drouin, no matter what Drouin's first language is.

If the league ended tomorrow, the 8th pick would go to Winnipeg or Edmonton. Plekanec isn't waiving his NTC go to either.

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02-26-2013, 12:31 PM
  #842
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Originally Posted by Mats86 View Post
MacKinnon is future NHL star. Petan playing with nobody of that caliber. Petan raised the point totals of some linematess but none of his linemates has MacKinnon's talent. Looked how Drouin's play came down when the playing field was level like the Top Prospects Game?

Actually, would not be suprised if Petan ends up better all around player as his +/- blows Drouin out of the rink despite Drouin playing with better linemates. Quite often player taken late first round ends up better player than top picks. Drouin we have zero chance of drafting but Petan an equal player, we have an opportunity to draft.

I compared Petan's numbers to Gallagher's. At same age of 18. Where they same league and roughy same size at 18. Petan should score 80ish points at NHL someday as I have Gallagher average 50ish points NHLer. Petan higher offensively talent than Gallagher at 18. Gallagher more feisty but Petan more value also as natural center
Petan is a long shot, Drouin is playing without Mac and in that span he has put almost 3ppg, Petan will never play at that pace. I love Petan and i hope the Habs draft him but sayong that Petan is an equal player to Drouin is unreal.

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02-26-2013, 12:32 PM
  #843
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Fair or not, Jordan Staal is much more highly regarded than Plekanec, and the Pens pretty much played that deal perfectly considering Staal wanted to play for the Canes. And even then, an 8th pick and a top 5 pick are very different, there's no way in hell Plekanec is going to get you Drouin, no matter what Drouin's first language is.
The other way around is true too. Unless MB is somekind of desperate Gm.

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02-26-2013, 12:57 PM
  #844
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Originally Posted by Mats86 View Post
MacKinnon is future NHL star. Petan playing with nobody of that caliber. Petan raised the point totals of some linematess but none of his linemates has MacKinnon's talent. Looked how Drouin's play came down when the playing field was level like the Top Prospects Game?

Actually, would not be suprised if Petan ends up better all around player as his +/- blows Drouin out of the rink despite Drouin playing with better linemates. Quite often player taken late first round ends up better player than top picks. Drouin we have zero chance of drafting but Petan an equal player, we have an opportunity to draft.

I compared Petan's numbers to Gallagher's. At same age of 18. Where they same league and roughy same size at 18. Petan should score 80ish points at NHL someday as I have Gallagher average 50ish points NHLer. Petan higher offensively talent than Gallagher at 18. Gallagher more feisty but Petan more value also as natural center
What does being a "future NHL star" have to do with with who is better in junior? That is also debateable, maybe MacKinonn ends up a wanna-be actor like Alex Daigle.

The guys Petan plays with are more productive JUNIOR players than what Druoin plays with.

You are putting way too much weight on the prospects game. Scouts like it but it's still just ONE game where players can have a great or crappy night. Drouin played against better competition at the WJHC and did great especially for a 17 year old in that tournament. MacKinnon also did nothing yet you still label him as a "future NHL star", double standard?

I don't think any scout that has seen both has Petan as an "equal" to Drouin, not on this planet.

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02-26-2013, 12:59 PM
  #845
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Originally Posted by DekeLikeYouMeanIt View Post
You clearly have no idea what context is. Petan is playing with established and high profile CHLers in Leipsic and Rattie (and Rutkowski + young Bjorkstrand, etc.) backed by veteran Carruth + Seth Jones, Pouliot and Wotherspoon. That team is beyond stacked and experienced.

Mac and Drouin are playing on a good team but the depth and experience is nowhere near these guys. And Gallagher played on some really weak Vancouver teams.

I'm not saying Petan won't be better than our player but rather temper your wild expectations by putting his impressive results into context.
Can't be....those guys will be 2-3rd line wingers if they make NHL. Drouin is playing with a future NHL star. Look how ordinary Drouin looked in Top Prospect Game once playing field was level? Portland has a great team, but Petan isn't playing with MacKinnon kind of Llinemates. Drouin may be slight better scorer, but Petan better all around player

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02-26-2013, 01:02 PM
  #846
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
You aren't getting a top 10 pick for Plekanec. Jordan Staal got an 8th overall pick and Staal is younger, and has size and draft pedigree. Also Plekanec has a NTC so forget about him going to a horrible team.



It's entirely because he's the best Quebecois prospect in a few years. It's time to let go though, Drouin is going top 3, forget about it. It's starting to sound like Leafs fans expecting Tavares to be their savior becuase he's from the GTA.
The trade was an 8th overall pick AND Brandon Sutter, pretty good player in his own right. Staal is bigger and younger but Plekanec has more offensive skill.

The scouting world in general LOVEs Drouin, just about everybody has him top 3, that has nothing to do with being french, spanish, italian or wahtever.

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02-26-2013, 01:11 PM
  #847
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Originally Posted by Mats86 View Post
Can't be....those guys will be 2-3rd line wingers if they make NHL. Drouin is playing with a future NHL star. Look how ordinary Drouin looked in Top Prospect Game once playing field was level? Portland has a great team, but Petan isn't playing with MacKinnon kind of Llinemates. Drouin may be slight better scorer, but Petan better all around player
Your logic is out to lunch.

What those guys will be as pros is completely irrelevant to what they are as junior players. You can build a stacked junior team that will break a ton of records and win the Memorial cup and have just 1-2 crack the NHL as depth players. Junior skill and NHL skill are not directly related. Just in the QMJHL there are at least 3-4 players other than Drouin that are better than Mackinnon this year, it doesn't mean they will be better than MacKinnon or even crack the NHL. Most are older obviously.

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02-26-2013, 01:13 PM
  #848
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
The trade was an 8th overall pick AND Brandon Sutter, pretty good player in his own right. Staal is bigger and younger but Plekanec has more offensive skill.

The scouting world in general LOVEs Drouin, just about everybody has him top 3, that has nothing to do with being french, spanish, italian or wahtever.

And it's fair that they have him there, because it's where he belongs. Just like Galchenyuk... And just like Galchenyuk he's not the consensus number 1 and shouldnt be.

Also where's Barkov these days ? When we we're still a crap team I was hoping we could draft him and he was even raising eyebrows if he should've been taken first overall... Just like Drouin.

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02-26-2013, 01:22 PM
  #849
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mats86 View Post
Can't be....those guys will be 2-3rd line wingers if they make NHL. Drouin is playing with a future NHL star. Look how ordinary Drouin looked in Top Prospect Game once playing field was level? Portland has a great team, but Petan isn't playing with MacKinnon kind of Llinemates. Drouin may be slight better scorer, but Petan better all around player
Do you not understand the difference between a very good junior player and a very good NHL prospect? Lots of guys tear up junior and arguably the best players in the league but wouldn't be considered as anything but long longshots.

And I can't believe you're bringing up a silly game like the TPG. Give your head a shake, man. It's like using the NHL All-Star game for pro scouting.

EDIT: Yea, what CP said.

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02-26-2013, 01:34 PM
  #850
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And it's fair that they have him there, because it's where he belongs. Just like Galchenyuk... And just like Galchenyuk he's not the consensus number 1 and shouldnt be.

Also where's Barkov these days ? When we we're still a crap team I was hoping we could draft him and he was even raising eyebrows if he should've been taken first overall... Just like Drouin.
Galchenyuk may or may not have been #1 if he had played last year...hard to compare the two players.

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