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Oilers and Gagner working on extension: [UPD: Elected Arbitration]

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02-26-2013, 02:06 PM
  #26
smackdaddy
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A few 1C-2C comparisons from contenders.

Chicago: Toews 6.3M, Bolland 3.375M
NYR: Richards 6.6M, Miller 1.2M (ELC)
San Jose: Thornton 7M, Pavelski 4M
LA: Richards 5.75M, Kopitar 6.8
Bos: Bergeron 5M, Krejci 5.25
PIT: Crosby 8.7, Malkin 8.7
(BASED ON DEPTH CHARTS)

Skill levels do vary. But this is what the contenders are paying right now.

It's a 4.88M average. Gagner is not worth average salary compared to those players. For a true one-two center punch it seems GMs are paying around $5M for a true 2C.

We are winger heavy and should either embrace that fact and structure the team accordingly or do what many of you suggest and that's trade Gagner and one of the wingers for a legit #1/2 center that will be here for years to come. The Rangers are also winger heavy and we look a lot like they do for forwards.

But Gagner should not be sniffing anything near $5M and if he does then we're literally favoring him over the likes of Yakupov/RNH/Schultz.

$3.9M-$4.3M over 3 years is what makes sense at this point in time.


Last edited by smackdaddy: 02-26-2013 at 02:12 PM. Reason: Fixed
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Old
02-26-2013, 02:09 PM
  #27
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Simon Gagne and Patrick Sharp aren't centres.

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Old
02-26-2013, 02:10 PM
  #28
Oiltankjob Fail
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
A few 1C-2C comparisons from contenders.

Chicago: Toews 6.3M, Sharp 5.9M
NYR: Richards 6.6M, Miller 1.2M (ELC)
San Jose: Thornton 7M, Pavelski 4M
LA: Richards 5.75M, Gagne 3,5
Bos: Bergeron 5M, Krejci 5.25
PIT: Crosby 8.7, Malkin 8.7
(BASED ON DEPTH CHARTS)

Skill levels do vary. But this is what the contenders are paying right now.

It's a 4.758M average. Gagner is not worth average salary compared to those players. For a true one-two center punch it seems GMs are paying around $5M for a true 2C.

We are winger heavy and should either embrace that fact and structure the team accordingly or do what many of you suggest and that's trade Gagner and one of the wingers for a legit #1/2 center that will be here for years to come. The Rangers are also winger heavy and we look a lot like they do for forwards.

But Gagner should not be sniffing anything near $5M and if he does then we're literally favoring him over the likes of Yakupov/RNH/Schultz.

$3.9M-$4.3M over 3 years is what makes sense at this point in time.
Look what NJD just gave Zajac, and you have to look at recent contracts not ones a few season back

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02-26-2013, 02:12 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
Simon Gagne and Patrick Sharp aren't centres.
Fixed.

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Old
02-26-2013, 02:13 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Oiltankjob 4 93 64 View Post
Look what NJD just gave Zajac, and you have to look at recent contracts not ones a few season back
Zajac is their #1 center. They gave him 5.75.

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02-26-2013, 02:15 PM
  #31
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His agent will be asking for 5x5 almost definitely.

I think there's a fair chance the Oilers trade him in the summer. Sign a stop gap like Nik Antropov and draft a center like Barkov/Gauthier/Monahan.

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02-26-2013, 02:19 PM
  #32
Oiltankjob Fail
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Zajac is their #1 center. They gave him 5.75.
It will play a part in what his agent wants Zajac .59 ppg career Gagner .60 thats how agents compare contracts , they use similar player production as a benchmark. If Gagner averages a ppg this season were not getting him for 4 mill wont happen. Look what Grabo in Toronto signed for. Like I said recent Contracts will be used not a contract Thornton signed years ago.And what Devils gave Zajac was retarded and 8 years to boot and is going to hurt other teams trying to get players signed.


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Old
02-26-2013, 02:52 PM
  #33
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1.25 raise add 3 years.

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Old
02-26-2013, 02:55 PM
  #34
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It's really quite simple if Gagner wants to stay here the 5x5 more than likely doesn't fly.

Might not be fair, but if he wants that kind of money he's going to have to look elsewhere.

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Old
02-26-2013, 03:07 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oiltankjob 4 93 64 View Post
It will play a part in what his agent wants Zajac .59 ppg career Gagner .60 thats how agents compare contracts , they use similar player production as a benchmark. If Gagner averages a ppg this season were not getting him for 4 mill wont happen. Look what Grabo in Toronto signed for. Like I said recent Contracts will be used not a contract Thornton signed years ago.And what Devils gave Zajac was retarded and 8 years to boot and is going to hurt other teams trying to get players signed.
Right, but his agent can't point to #1 centers and demand he gets paid like one. The only option is to look at other 2nd line centers and go from there.

I don't disagree that he will likely look to cash in this year. Not one bit. But if he and his agent decide to sit there and pull an O'Reilly or a Subban he knows where he can go and I will not feel bad having him sit out either.

This team can not afford Gagner at anything near 5M a year. If he gets $4.5 I'd consider it a failure on Tambo's part. If he gets 4 then that's perfect for what he brings.

Worse comes to worst we can package Hemsky and Gagner together and see who's willing to fill our 2nd line center need.

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02-26-2013, 03:14 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
A few 1C-2C comparisons from contenders.

Chicago: Toews 6.3M, Bolland 3.375M
NYR: Richards 6.6M, Miller 1.2M (ELC)
San Jose: Thornton 7M, Pavelski 4M
LA: Richards 5.75M, Kopitar 6.8
Bos: Bergeron 5M, Krejci 5.25
PIT: Crosby 8.7, Malkin 8.7
(BASED ON DEPTH CHARTS)

Skill levels do vary. But this is what the contenders are paying right now.

It's a 4.88M average. Gagner is not worth average salary compared to those players. For a true one-two center punch it seems GMs are paying around $5M for a true 2C.

We are winger heavy and should either embrace that fact and structure the team accordingly or do what many of you suggest and that's trade Gagner and one of the wingers for a legit #1/2 center that will be here for years to come. The Rangers are also winger heavy and we look a lot like they do for forwards.

But Gagner should not be sniffing anything near $5M and if he does then we're literally favoring him over the likes of Yakupov/RNH/Schultz.

$3.9M-$4.3M over 3 years is what makes sense at this point in time.
Lmao! Did you really just say Gagner isn't a true #2C? Is that because he's producing like a #1C?

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Old
02-26-2013, 03:17 PM
  #37
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Look its pretty easy, he took a one year deal to prove what he could do. Hes proving what he can do, time for the Oil to hold up their end of the bargain and pay him like a 2nd line center. They are around 5 M a year now, weather you like it or not. If he doesnt fit your plans you have to decide. Kinda what Colorado is going through right now.

Kinda similar to PK Subban in Montreal.

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Old
02-26-2013, 03:19 PM
  #38
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The org was shortsighted in going short term contract with Gagner. With us drafting Yak and retaining Hemsky the table was set for this club having two offensive lines this year.

This was a given.

Also a given that Gagner would have success playing with offensively capable players and that he would get more of that this year.

The team for some reason didn't do a contract that factored in that Gagner price was going to go up. As many have suspected this seems to be geared to trade bacon.

A huge mistake, but thats how the org mayb pegged it. They just signed a Gagner for "show" contract.

Either that or management totally screwed up.

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Old
02-26-2013, 03:21 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMofOilers View Post
Look its pretty easy, he took a one year deal to prove what he could do. Hes proving what he can do, time for the Oil to hold up their end of the bargain and pay him like a 2nd line center. They are around 5 M a year now, weather you like it or not. If he doesnt fit your plans you have to decide. Kinda what Colorado is going through right now.

Kinda similar to PK Subban in Montreal.
Its interesting how many people feel that what Colorado has done with ROR is silly but are then prepared to undercut Gagner here.

Both are mistakes that severely limit the respective clubs. Hoping that it doesn't come to that here.

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02-26-2013, 03:25 PM
  #40
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Its interesting how many people feel that what Colorado has done with ROR is silly but are then prepared to undercut Gagner here.

Both are mistakes that severely limit the respective clubs. Hoping that it doesn't come to that here.
Exactly, but how can it not happen here? Is the Oil going to hold up their end of the bargain? Or they trade him?

Looking into the future I would rather have ROR and RNH than what we have right now, and both Gagner and ROR will cost about the same amount. I would make the deal. ROR for Gagner and Klefbom.

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02-26-2013, 03:28 PM
  #41
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I think Gagner gets $8.5M over two years this summer, and gets the big $5M/year contract in Summer 2014 when Horcoff takes $3M/year on his shiny new contract that takes him to retirement.

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Old
02-26-2013, 03:30 PM
  #42
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FTR right now only 4 Western Conference forwards have more pts than Gagner.

Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Kane, Sedin. All of them play more minutes, play on much better clubs, and with better players. All but one of them are prime of career veterans.

Real shortlist.

Gagner also is becoming accustomed to having more minutes on PK and over 2mins/game at this point and increasing.

Gagner is a player that this org is handing increasing responsibilities to and he's responding as well as could be expected.

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02-26-2013, 03:37 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
A few 1C-2C comparisons from contenders.

Chicago: Toews 6.3M, Bolland 3.375M
NYR: Richards 6.6M, Miller 1.2M (ELC)
San Jose: Thornton 7M, Pavelski 4M
LA: Richards 5.75M, Kopitar 6.8
Bos: Bergeron 5M, Krejci 5.25
PIT: Crosby 8.7, Malkin 8.7
(BASED ON DEPTH CHARTS)

Skill levels do vary. But this is what the contenders are paying right now.

It's a 4.88M average. Gagner is not worth average salary compared to those players. For a true one-two center punch it seems GMs are paying around $5M for a true 2C.

We are winger heavy and should either embrace that fact and structure the team accordingly or do what many of you suggest and that's trade Gagner and one of the wingers for a legit #1/2 center that will be here for years to come. The Rangers are also winger heavy and we look a lot like they do for forwards.

But Gagner should not be sniffing anything near $5M and if he does then we're literally favoring him over the likes of Yakupov/RNH/Schultz.

$3.9M-$4.3M over 3 years is what makes sense at this point in time.
I'm really not sure what the comparison's are about there. They serve no purpose. You include a player on there that is on a ELC. Why? You include Malkin, who is not a #2 centre, but rather, a top 3 centre in the league.

I think Gagner gets a 5 year deal this team. He took a short contract, and has now showed the organization what they should expect out of him. He a very good offensively producing #2 centre that is soft and bad at the dot. His 2-way play is decent. Due to the offense he is putting up this year, I think he gets close to $5M per year. I don't think his production level will keep up, the whole season, so will likely get between $4.5M and $5M/year. I'd prefer another 2 year deal to see if this year is a fluke, but considering he already took one, I think he demands longer term.

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02-26-2013, 03:40 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by GMofOilers View Post
Exactly, but how can it not happen here? Is the Oil going to hold up their end of the bargain? Or they trade him?

Looking into the future I would rather have ROR and RNH than what we have right now, and both Gagner and ROR will cost about the same amount. I would make the deal. ROR for Gagner and Klefbom.
We should know by the draft what is up with Gagner. If it's going to be a contract war his agent should be aware that we could move him. There aren't too many times of year where big deals are made, around the draft is one. I hate to not have Gagner as a trade asset only to find out in October that he's still unsigned.

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02-26-2013, 03:41 PM
  #45
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And we will be buying UFA years on the next contract. Big increase because of it.

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02-26-2013, 03:48 PM
  #46
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3x4.75mill if he stays PPG the rest of the year. Doubt he takes that though

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Old
02-26-2013, 04:13 PM
  #47
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I wouldn't be comfortable giving him any more than 4m per. His agent is going to have a lot of bargaining power though... I'm a little worried to be honest.

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02-26-2013, 04:16 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by ponokanocker View Post
I'm really not sure what the comparison's are about there. They serve no purpose. You include a player on there that is on a ELC. Why? You include Malkin, who is not a #2 centre, but rather, a top 3 centre in the league.

I think Gagner gets a 5 year deal this team. He took a short contract, and has now showed the organization what they should expect out of him. He a very good offensively producing #2 centre that is soft and bad at the dot. His 2-way play is decent. Due to the offense he is putting up this year, I think he gets close to $5M per year. I don't think his production level will keep up, the whole season, so will likely get between $4.5M and $5M/year. I'd prefer another 2 year deal to see if this year is a fluke, but considering he already took one, I think he demands longer term.
Because it brings a bit of context into the discussion. I'm not comparing those players I'm comparing what cup contenders pay their 2nd line center man. I thought that was obvious I'm sorry I didn't spell it out enough.

The average for those teams hovers around 5m. The question is do we feel gagner is that man we want to commit to at that price and I say no because his history has been a 40pt man. Hes good but not great and good enough doesn't win cups, especially when it takes up 5m yr

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02-26-2013, 04:21 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
Because it brings a bit of context into the discussion. I'm not comparing those players I'm comparing what cup contenders pay their 2nd line center man. I thought that was obvious I'm sorry I didn't spell it out enough.

The average for those teams hovers around 5m. The question is do we feel gagner is that man we want to commit to at that price and I say no because his history has been a 40pt man. Hes good but not great and good enough doesn't win cups, especially when it takes up 5m yr
We are no where near being cup contender. Right now we have to figure out how to go from a lotto team to a non-lotto team. Seems to be a lot of missed steps in between.

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Old
02-26-2013, 04:42 PM
  #50
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I wouldn't be comfortable giving him any more than 4m per. His agent is going to have a lot of bargaining power though... I'm a little worried to be honest.
I don't understand this - can you name a similar player, that brings as much to the table, who is at a similar point in his career, who signed for under 4M.

He is in my mind getting 4.5-5.25M per year. If the Oilers want to low ball him, which I doubt they do, he will sign a 1-year and walk.

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