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Old
02-23-2013, 09:24 AM
  #26
mighty all the way
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Before we traded for Beauch back, we all knew we needed another top 4 dman. There were so many proposed trades on here to get Beauch back. We all knew that he would be a perfect fit, he knew our system already and won a cup here. Teams reaquire players they couldn't sign before all the time. NJ and ponikarovsky is the most recent example.

I would not had paid Beauch that money after only playing 20 games, he then proved he was worth it so we got him back.

So glad we traded Lupul, he wasn't being used properly, last year was his only true good year, then this year he gets injured again. Yes, every injury might be a freak injury that he has, doesnt mean he isn't injury prone.

We gave up Gardiner because Schultz was better....We just didnt know about Schultz being such an a**hole.

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02-23-2013, 05:12 PM
  #27
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I think Fowler is starting to look a bit like Murray. Or Getzlaf. Take a look at his hair.


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02-23-2013, 05:35 PM
  #28
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I think Holland kind of looks like Burke, too.

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02-23-2013, 05:41 PM
  #29
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i go back and forth with murph....my one complaint is he is INVISIBLE, but i think that is because burke was such a "loud" GM...IMO bruce (sucks i cant just do BB anymore) has helped murph because he is so outspoken...i think murphs best assest is drafting/evaluating talent...IMO he's a pretty good GM but i agree a lot rides on what happens with getz/perry, and what he does with teemu leaving

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02-23-2013, 07:56 PM
  #30
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Free agency is not a great way to evaluate GM's. Sure it can make them look good and/or bad, but IMO most free agents already have an idea of where they want to go, or how much they want to be paid.


Regarding Getz and Perry here is how I would rate Murray

Both signed - Great if it is as our cap number

Both signed - over 8.5 per year - average since it may cost us in the future

One signed - Over 8.5 - Good if it is Getz

One signed - not Getz - bad

Neither signed - worrisome, since based on the rumors, Getz wants to stay.

As far as Murray in general, I would give him a B- up til this year, now I would give him an A-.

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02-23-2013, 11:03 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by IDuck View Post
i go back and forth with murph....my one complaint is he is INVISIBLE, but i think that is because burke was such a "loud" GM...IMO bruce (sucks i cant just do BB anymore) has helped murph because he is so outspoken...i think murphs best assest is drafting/evaluating talent...IMO he's a pretty good GM but i agree a lot rides on what happens with getz/perry, and what he does with teemu leaving
I'm with you. Somebody start a new thread...Fire Burke! Fire Burke!

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02-26-2013, 12:43 AM
  #32
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The bolded bit is my whole point. We needed a player like Beauch at that very moment so why not get him? Because Murph let him walk 18 months before? Would it have made a difference if he traded Lupul and Gardiner for Andrei Markov or Alex Edler? We subtract the same assets and fill the same need. Why does it matter that he used those assets to get a player he already had if that player is needed? Say Getzy walks this summer but in a year and a half he becomes available in a trade and we haven't found a replacement for him, would you not want him back? I just don't get why this is such an issue and such an indication of his abilities as a GM.

I think Murph has made a lot of bold moves that have put this team in the position they are in right now. Signing Koivu (and keeping him here), hiring Martin Madden (and all of his draft choices), the trades in '09, the Pronger trade, both Lubo trades, getting Cogliano, signing Lydman, hiring Boudreau, signing Souray and Winnik, signing Fasth. This team is in great shape. Honestly, and this goes to all Murray detractors, what moves has he made that have crippled this team? Are we not a deep, talented team sitting currently second in the league? Do we not have great goaltending depth and some very promising prospects/trade assets waiting the in the wings? Do we not have one of the best coaches in the league?
Sorry for late response. Been away from boards lately.

I have no beef with what Murray had to give up to get a player like Beauchemin. The trade itself is not my problem. It's the fact that we had to make it. It should have never had to happen. Yes he had to find a replacement, because he made the initial mistake of creating such a vital hole. If you believe it wasn't a big error on his part fine, but I completely disagree. You praise him for his bold moves, but that one (depending on such unproven player(s) for a top 4 role) killed us that season. Yeah he's had bold moves pay off, but he's had them fail just as bad, which have cost is dearly in years past.

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02-26-2013, 12:45 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by mighty all the way View Post
Before we traded for Beauch back, we all knew we needed another top 4 dman. There were so many proposed trades on here to get Beauch back. We all knew that he would be a perfect fit, he knew our system already and won a cup here. Teams reaquire players they couldn't sign before all the time. NJ and ponikarovsky is the most recent example.

I would not had paid Beauch that money after only playing 20 games, he then proved he was worth it so we got him back.

So glad we traded Lupul, he wasn't being used properly, last year was his only true good year, then this year he gets injured again. Yes, every injury might be a freak injury that he has, doesnt mean he isn't injury prone.

We gave up Gardiner because Schultz was better....We just didnt know about Schultz being such an a**hole.
that's not a good example. NJ was waiting on parise and ponikarovsky didn't want to wait. they always wanted to keep ponikarovsky..

we didn't even offer beach a contract and he went straight to UFA

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02-26-2013, 07:19 AM
  #34
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Maroon, Etem, and Holland haven't done much at all. Etem had a game or two where he looked ok, but no i really wouldn't credit any of them with much of our success this year. I still credit Beauch to Burke. He's the one that brought him in. Yeah Murray brought him back but he should have never let him walk in first place. Jury is still out on Cogs imo. yeah hes had a solid year so far, but he was so bad last year, im not ready to call that move a success, yet. Anyway that still leaves some very solid pieces, and I'm not saying they aren't contributing but like I originally responded to you, the current roster's success isn't primarily made of moves he's done over the years. Primary pieces were either already here or brought in this past offseason.

I have given him recognition for some of his moves. He's definitely had some good ones no question. I'm just not ready to praise him as much this season since sample size is too small as others. His tenure here the team has been mediocre. Prospect pool is definitely better, but team as a whole hasn't been much. Hopefully team continues to play well and we see a consistent good team for a few years. We're do.

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02-26-2013, 10:22 AM
  #35
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Pierre Gauthier was a mediocre GM. Note that there was never a point after he left us where we were had argue the good that went with the bad of his tenure. He certainly wouldn't have nailed Bobby and Jonas's contract negotiations.
Pierre Gauthier was not a mediocre GM - he was a terrible GM - by far the worst we've had in Anaheim.

As for Murray - I've always said he's a middle of the pack GM and his most recent results don't change much. He's missed the playoffs 2 out of the 3 full seasons he's been here but he has done a good job at restocking our prospect pool and we're finally starting to see results from some of the guys he drafted. As for us needing to rebuild when he took over - the core he was left with up front and in net was good enough that we never should have had to endure losing seasons. Yet we still did.

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02-26-2013, 11:01 AM
  #36
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Pierre Gauthier was not a mediocre GM - he was a terrible GM - by far the worst we've had in Anaheim.

As for Murray - I've always said he's a middle of the pack GM and his most recent results don't change much. He's missed the playoffs 2 out of the 3 full seasons he's been here but he has done a good job at restocking our prospect pool and we're finally starting to see results from some of the guys he drafted. As for us needing to rebuild when he took over - the core he was left with up front and in net was good enough that we never should have had to endure losing seasons. Yet we still did.
Well, that's a pile of horse ****. If you think that there was no timer on that team, then you need to take off the fan glasses. Everyone around this league seemed to see it. Whether you feel there needed to be one, there was an attempted rebuild. Let's take a look at who some of the other GMs that boast similar tallies and struggles during those: Bryan Murray in Ottawa and Dale Tallon in Florida - such mediocrity.

I like how people here are saying I'll gladly eat crow if blah, blah, blah, but when that moment looks like it might be on the horizon they have to redraw the argument to be something else. Now it's that we had a sizable young core that should have won for the next five seasons. Or just become completely obtuse. It's nice to know that you guys have the great character that you spend so much time telling us you have.

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02-26-2013, 11:03 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Duckstudd269 View Post
Maroon, Etem, and Holland haven't done much at all. Etem had a game or two where he looked ok, but no i really wouldn't credit any of them with much of our success this year. I still credit Beauch to Burke. He's the one that brought him in. Yeah Murray brought him back but he should have never let him walk in first place. Jury is still out on Cogs imo. yeah hes had a solid year so far, but he was so bad last year, im not ready to call that move a success, yet. Anyway that still leaves some very solid pieces, and I'm not saying they aren't contributing but like I originally responded to you, the current roster's success isn't primarily made of moves he's done over the years. Primary pieces were either already here or brought in this past offseason.

I have given him recognition for some of his moves. He's definitely had some good ones no question. I'm just not ready to praise him as much this season since sample size is too small as others. His tenure here the team has been mediocre. Prospect pool is definitely better, but team as a whole hasn't been much. Hopefully team continues to play well and we see a consistent good team for a few years. We're do.
Oh my god, do not even pretend that's what I'm discussing here.

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02-26-2013, 01:05 PM
  #38
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Maroon, Etem, and Holland haven't done much at all. Etem had a game or two where he looked ok, but no i really wouldn't credit any of them with much of our success this year. I still credit Beauch to Burke. He's the one that brought him in. Yeah Murray brought him back but he should have never let him walk in first place. Jury is still out on Cogs imo. yeah hes had a solid year so far, but he was so bad last year, im not ready to call that move a success, yet. Anyway that still leaves some very solid pieces, and I'm not saying they aren't contributing but like I originally responded to you, the current roster's success isn't primarily made of moves he's done over the years. Primary pieces were either already here or brought in this past offseason.

I have given him recognition for some of his moves. He's definitely had some good ones no question. I'm just not ready to praise him as much this season since sample size is too small as others. His tenure here the team has been mediocre. Prospect pool is definitely better, but team as a whole hasn't been much. Hopefully team continues to play well and we see a consistent good team for a few years. We're do.
murray brought in beauch. it's been recorded countless of times that burke only wanted beach in the trade because murray adamantly insisted on it. burke didn't even know who beauch was

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02-26-2013, 01:17 PM
  #39
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Oh my god, do not even pretend that's what I'm discussing here.
For whatever reason you deleted the post I was responding to but whatever.

You named all the moves had done and said how a bunch were really good, had some good signings, etc.. Basically I'm saying I know that and have never thought otherwise. I just don't think his tenure here before this season has been anything more than mediocre. He's made some great moves, and he's made some really bad ones. Team has been decent at best during his tenure. The prospect pool is great but that doesn't excuse some of the terrible moves he's made. He will get more credit if team stays this competitive.

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02-26-2013, 01:18 PM
  #40
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murray brought in beauch. it's been recorded countless of times that burke only wanted beach in the trade because murray adamantly insisted on it. burke didn't even know who beauch was
Was that Murray? I remember reading that someone else was adamant about him being added but I don't remember it being Murray. If so though, props to him. Great find.

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02-26-2013, 01:21 PM
  #41
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For whatever reason you deleted the post I was responding to but whatever.

You named all the moves had done and said how a bunch were really good, had some good signings, etc.. Basically I'm saying I know that and have never thought otherwise. I just don't think his tenure here before this season has been anything more than mediocre. He's made some great moves, and he's made some really bad ones. Team has been decent at best during his tenure. The prospect pool is great but that doesn't excuse some of the terrible moves he's made. He will get more credit if team stays this competitive.
What? I didn't delete anything.


Last edited by Exit Dose: 02-26-2013 at 01:49 PM. Reason: Something was misinterpreted I think.
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02-26-2013, 01:23 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post

I like how people here are saying I'll gladly eat crow if blah, blah, blah, but when that moment looks like it might be on the horizon they have to redraw the argument to be something else. Now it's that we had a sizable young core that should have won for the next five seasons. Or just become completely obtuse. It's nice to know that you guys have the great character that you spend so much time telling us you have.
Maybe people don't want to judge a season based on 16 games? This team goes as hot and as cold as anyone. So we aren't staring at the horizon just yet.

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02-26-2013, 01:25 PM
  #43
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Maybe people don't want to judge a season based on 16 games? This team goes as hot and as cold as anyone. So we aren't staring at the horizon just yet.
As I said in the post that was removed, no one is asking you to. I'm arguing that the notion that all the work done in the seasons prior did not lead up to this is extremely immature. That is cherry picking.

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02-26-2013, 01:27 PM
  #44
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Sorry for late response. Been away from boards lately.

I have no beef with what Murray had to give up to get a player like Beauchemin. The trade itself is not my problem. It's the fact that we had to make it. It should have never had to happen. Yes he had to find a replacement, because he made the initial mistake of creating such a vital hole. If you believe it wasn't a big error on his part fine, but I completely disagree. You praise him for his bold moves, but that one (depending on such unproven player(s) for a top 4 role) killed us that season. Yeah he's had bold moves pay off, but he's had them fail just as bad, which have cost is dearly in years past.
Like what? Not to come off antagonistic (I'm really not) but I am curious to know what moves you claim to have cost [us] dearly. Letting Beauch walk was a mistake but only in hindsight. I think of a lot of us thought Wiz was going to carry that load and he didn't and then Whitney fell apart and then Scotty retired. If he knew all of that was going to happen I don't think he would have let him walk.

But other than that what bad moves that cost this team? I feel like he's made moves that didn't have an impact but didn't cost us either (Christensen, Artyukhin, Sutton etc.) The only stub prospect we lost was Gardiner and that only hurts because Schultz effed us.

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02-26-2013, 01:34 PM
  #45
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I always give Murray the benefit of the doubt, but if we lose Perry and Getzlaf then it may be time to go.

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02-26-2013, 01:47 PM
  #46
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I always give Murray the benefit of the doubt, but if we lose Perry and Getzlaf then it may be time to go.
I think circumstance should play a part in deciding whether Murray gets the axe for that or not, but if he is the one to blame for it, then he should bear the brunt.

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02-26-2013, 02:13 PM
  #47
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I think circumstance should play a part in deciding whether Murray gets the axe for that or not, but if he is the one to blame for it, then he should bear the brunt.
But we will never know if he is the one to blame unless Perry and getzlaf come out and say it was.... Which I do not see happening.

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02-26-2013, 02:28 PM
  #48
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But we will never know if he is the one to blame unless Perry and getzlaf come out and say it was.... Which I do not see happening.
Samueli will know. I think if Murray gets fired in the immediate aftermath we'll have some idea who the owner blames. Whether we ever find out for sure is another story.

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02-26-2013, 02:28 PM
  #49
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I like how people here are saying I'll gladly eat crow if blah, blah, blah, but when that moment looks like it might be on the horizon they have to redraw the argument to be something else. Now it's that we had a sizable young core that should have won for the next five seasons. Or just become completely obtuse. It's nice to know that you guys have the great character that you spend so much time telling us you have.
Over and over and over.

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02-26-2013, 03:08 PM
  #50
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Samueli will know. I think if Murray gets fired in the immediate aftermath we'll have some idea who the owner blames. Whether we ever find out for sure is another story.
Exactly. If they go sign for 9+ somewhere you know it's the money, and that's on Samueli. Also, they aren't worth it. If they go sign for 7, that's on some aspect of the team. If Murray is canned, you know he was that aspect.

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