HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

Getting Kronwalled

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-26-2013, 02:50 PM
  #51
Frozen Fiend
DOUBLE D
 
Frozen Fiend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Kalamazoo
Country: United States
Posts: 4,722
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
If the league treated him the same as Colby Armstrong and Steve Downey then yes, he would stop hitting.
I think you missed the point. Jarnkrok was implying that Kronwall hasn't had any big hits this season, therefore he's 'giving up on hitting all together'.

Starting this thread now just seems like mindless whining. Kronwall has already come out that he's been working on keeping his feet on the ice. Voracek himself called that last hit clean. I really don't see what the issue here is.

Frozen Fiend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 02:50 PM
  #52
LolClarkson*
Canucks 4 the cup
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Embrace the hate
Posts: 8,908
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Syckle78 View Post
Someone post Kessler getting Kronwalled for this guy, please.
Just a question... Why are Kronwalls questionable hits allowed and Armstrongs are not >?

Armstrongs hits were cleaner then Krowalls as we can see here


LolClarkson* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 02:51 PM
  #53
GrandChelems
Registered User
 
GrandChelems's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by butteryslugz View Post
fans and players alike get so ******** over clean hits
There are people on the internet who debate and discuss, and there are people who say "********" and "hater".

GrandChelems is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 02:52 PM
  #54
LolClarkson*
Canucks 4 the cup
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Embrace the hate
Posts: 8,908
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z40 View Post
Everyone who thinks Kronwall is a dirty hitter has probably had a player on their team Kronwalled. The ******** is strong in this thread.
The only issue is that his clean/ugly hits are permitted while other players hits are not.

LolClarkson* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 02:53 PM
  #55
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 37,495
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrasco View Post
Voracek said himself he was naive to think Kronwall was going to keep backing up, it was his fault, and those hits need to stay in the game.
Yeah, there's no issue with that hit or the ones like it. A lot of Kronwall's hits are just a matter of having a good sense of where a pass will arrive and then standing up on the recipient. Most defensemen will back off instead of taking the risk.

But there definitely is an issue with hits like the ones on Kesler and Heatley, where he is plain as day rising up into the hit in a jumping motion.

tarheelhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 02:58 PM
  #56
LolClarkson*
Canucks 4 the cup
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Embrace the hate
Posts: 8,908
vCash: 500
Colby Armstrong never left his feet till after contact on this play too.


LolClarkson* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 03:00 PM
  #57
icKx
Subtle interference
 
icKx's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Intertubes
Country: United States
Posts: 3,207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
We're talking about a long string of complaints that have consistently arisen over a period of years. A bit more than one could call a coincidence.

Saying Kronwall doesn't jump into hits is like saying Skinner doesn't dive, or Cooke doesn't throw predatory hits, or Torres doesn't go for people's heads. I get it, you're a fan and you don't want to believe it, but come on. People aren't just making this up out of thin air to defame his character because they're "********". He clearly IS jumping into hit... just watch the video with your biases switched off. Stretching his toes so that they appear to graze the ice at the point of contact doesn't count as "staying planted" when he's clearly and obviously jumping into a hit and rising a foot off the ice within a split second.
False equivalency. Has Kronwall ever been suspended for a hit?

It has nothing to do with Red Wing bias. Even among fans of other teams there is nothing close to a 'consensus' that Kronwall jumps or is a dirty player.

Hell, you don't even have a plurality in this very thread.

icKx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 03:03 PM
  #58
Flowah
Registered User
 
Flowah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 6,503
vCash: 500
"Hit to the head" is being mentioned a lot here.

It's not only a hit to the head. You have to take into account, as Shanahan has made clear numerous times, the player getting hit and his responsibility to not put himself in a vulnerable position. If the guy ducks at the last second and gets hit in the head, that cannot be on the hitter. Kronwall is not targeting the head in any of these, he's not using his elbow, it's always his shoulder or sometimes his back. Some of these, the guys are seeing the hit coming and starting to get low to avoid impact or some crap.

There's a reason he hasn't been suspended for any of these.

Flowah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 03:07 PM
  #59
Master Shake*
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Kazakhstan
Posts: 1,892
vCash: 500
Kronwall is dirty, always has been

Master Shake* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 03:07 PM
  #60
LolClarkson*
Canucks 4 the cup
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Embrace the hate
Posts: 8,908
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by icKx View Post

It has nothing to do with Red Wing bias.
He hasn't been suspended because he plays for Detroit.

Have a look at Colby Armstrongs hits. He KO's some players just like Kronwal does. He doesn't lift his feet until after contact. He tucks his elbows in just like Kronwal. But the difference is that Armstrong was suspended and basically run out of the league.

LolClarkson* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 03:08 PM
  #61
Common Sense
Registered User
 
Common Sense's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,342
vCash: 500
This thread is hilarious.

We all want a fast and physical league, then when somebody gets hit we slow it down frame by frame and look at it from 200 different angles and post all kinds of screenshots before finally determining that it was somehow dirty. It's not just Kronwall either, it's everybody. This is the NHL. Let players hit for God's sake.

Common Sense is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 03:12 PM
  #62
rrasco
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 98
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flowah View Post
"Hit to the head" is being mentioned a lot here.

It's not only a hit to the head. You have to take into account, as Shanahan has made clear numerous times, the player getting hit and his responsibility to not put himself in a vulnerable position. If the guy ducks at the last second and gets hit in the head, that cannot be on the hitter. Kronwall is not targeting the head in any of these, he's not using his elbow, it's always his shoulder or sometimes his back. Some of these, the guys are seeing the hit coming and starting to get low to avoid impact or some crap.

There's a reason he hasn't been suspended for any of these.
This year they had a video with Shanny talking about this. I think it was on TSN, or maybe NHL Network, but I can't find the video right now. Two things have to come into play, BOTH of them must be true, not one or the other, but BOTH.

-Principal point of contact with head
-Targeting the head

rrasco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 03:15 PM
  #63
rrasco
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 98
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
He hasn't been suspended because he plays for Detroit.
That's a ridiculously unsubstantiated claim.

rrasco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 03:15 PM
  #64
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 37,495
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by icKx View Post
False equivalency. Has Kronwall ever been suspended for a hit?
You really don't see the conflict between those two sentences?

tarheelhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 03:16 PM
  #65
icKx
Subtle interference
 
icKx's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Intertubes
Country: United States
Posts: 3,207
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
He hasn't been suspended because he plays for Detroit.
Brendan Smith was suspended for 8 games last season.

So I guess the favoritism only applies to Swedes or something?

icKx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 03:20 PM
  #66
14ari13
Registered User
 
14ari13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Norway
Posts: 9,976
vCash: 500
I am a Wings fan (despite my avatar)
I think some of his hits he leaves his feet, but I love his hits. I am sure many other fans love his game.

14ari13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 03:21 PM
  #67
Dunni
Registered User
 
Dunni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 503
vCash: 500
The only one where it was obvious he jumped, in my opinion, was the Kesler one (#9). Not a fan of that hit at all. He is walking the line in some of them, but that's the only one where I felt he obviously crossed it.

Dunni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 03:25 PM
  #68
kingpest19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 11,089
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
He hasn't been suspended because he plays for Detroit.

Have a look at Colby Armstrongs hits. He KO's some players just like Kronwal does. He doesn't lift his feet until after contact. He tucks his elbows in just like Kronwal. But the difference is that Armstrong was suspended and basically run out of the league.
How was Armstrong ran out of the league? He put up 26 point combined the last 2 seasons because of injuries and inconsistencies. Kind of hard to tlsay he was ran out of the league.

kingpest19 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 03:26 PM
  #69
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 37,495
vCash: 500
This is an example of Kronwall jumping into a hit.

Apologies for the poor resolution; Paint reduces the size of the color palette. If you want to see it in HD, find the same frames in the video posted in the OP. This hit was #2 on the list, and the replay begins at 7:33. You will see, as noted in the captions that his feet are both completely off the ice at the point of contact.










There is absolutely no doubt in this case that he rises completely off the ice because of his own leg thrust, before he bounces off his target. The bounce still occurs, as you can see in the final frame, but only after airborne contact has already been made.

Some of his hits don't meet this definition, but in this case it's not disputable that he jumped into the hit.

tarheelhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 03:27 PM
  #70
RobertKron
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,721
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
HF, where Scott Stevens is revered for his physicality while Nicklas Kronwall is loathed for his "dirty" hits.

Only at HF.
That's basically because Stevens would actually fight people, and also because he played at a different time. If Stevens were a contemporary player, HF would melt down.

Anyway, Kronwall jumps sometimes, but realistically if you need to get the microscope out and post a bunch of freeze-frames and slow-mo videos, then it's not a big issue. The vast majority of his hits are clean. In that video, the only really bad one was that first one against Nashville.

Still though, a guy that is that predatory and never, ever backs it up will obviously get people unhappy with him. Comes with the territory. I don't get why Detroit fans always play the "how could you possibly dislike him" game.

RobertKron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 03:31 PM
  #71
tarheelhockey
Global Moderator
 
tarheelhockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: The Triangle
Country: United States
Posts: 37,495
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertKron View Post
Anyway, Kronwall jumps a bit sometimes, but realistically if you need to get the microscope out and post a bunch of freeze-frames and slow-mo videos, then it's not an issue.
If the question is whether he's jumping off the ice or thrusting into contact and then bouncing, there's no other way to determine the answer than through slow-mo.

tarheelhockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 03:33 PM
  #72
RollTheBones109
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 318
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
If the question is whether he's jumping off the ice or thrusting into contact and then bouncing, there's no other way to determine the answer than through slow-mo.
Sorry, misread

RollTheBones109 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 03:35 PM
  #73
RobertKron
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,721
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
If the question is whether he's jumping off the ice or thrusting into contact and then bouncing, there's no other way to determine the answer than through slow-mo.
Sure. I understand that. It's just pretty clear from the full-speed videos that he's launching upwards. It really doesn't matter if he's coming off the ice a split second before or after contact. Guy is a predatory player, but he's also not throwing Downie-McCammond flying hits. He walks the line, and times his hits really well. He also refuses to back it up, and that will make him unpopular around the league either way.

RobertKron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 03:37 PM
  #74
billybudd
5 Mike Rupps
 
billybudd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 15,456
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardnell View Post
Not saying his hits are illegal, though he does push the limit... When he lines up an opponent and takes them out of the play and in most cases causes an injury, it'd be nice to see him answer the bell just once
^^^^^

Never understood why a second rate D is considered by some to be immune to the consequences of what every other player ever, including several hall of famers, who went out there looking to injure people dealt with.

Also, comparing this guy to Scott Stevens is like comparing Franzen to Cam Neely.

billybudd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-26-2013, 03:44 PM
  #75
Goalie guy
Registered User
 
Goalie guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Taylor MI
Country: United States
Posts: 1,227
vCash: 500
A lot and I mean a lot of you guys really need to go back and take a physics class!!! and then put on some skates and go play some hockey. then come back and tell us all what you have learned.

You have two object's at 200 lbs each traveling at 20 mph at each other on 3mm wide blades, what happens at the point of impact? do they bounce off each other? no they explode in a violent manner in which one or both may go into the air. happens with cars all the time as well and they have more contact points with the ground.
In other words get OVER IT, IT IS A CONTACT SPORT!!!!!!!

Goalie guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:39 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.