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Xbox One / PS4 Discussion

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Old
02-26-2013, 05:51 AM
  #126
Graveland
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Originally Posted by Orpheus View Post
PS4 is not always online. As for online passes, Sony has already said its up to the developers if they want to include them or not, so yea, no pay wall from Sony's end.
You honestly believe everything Sony says don't you? Your used games include ones you've purchased on PSN.

They've promised services before that they still haven't come through on. I doubt the back library will ever be available through the cloud or the vita would be able to play PSP games. PS4 via remote play? Wasn't that supposed to work with the PSP? The cloud services will be "rolled out in stages" wonder how long that will take.

Lets not forget Gaikai, the military can barely do what Sony wants to do with Gaikai. Or if the supposed specs are true Sony is going to have to take a bath on the console. There will most likely be a massive supply shortage of DDR5 if they actually keep that much ram in it when it ships.

Practically speaking the 720 should be around 10-20% less powerful than the PS4. The processor will be significantly more powerful on the nextbox. The audio processor on the xbox can handle over 1000 concurrent mp3 streams at the same time which is insane.

None of this is confirmed though. Wouldn't surprise me if either company yanked features/hardware.

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02-26-2013, 07:42 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Eytinge View Post
Gross. Sony has already confirmed PS4 won't block used games. Microsoft would be dumb to go the other way.
Of course nothing stops the publishers from doing the same with activation codes on PS4...

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Old
02-26-2013, 07:53 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Barry Dylan View Post
Of course kinect will be a necessary tool, Dance party sold more copies than any ps3 game.
Yeah, Dance Central and Just Dance games sell huge and they've gotten good reviews scores as well. The rumors about Kinect 2 last year were that is supposed to be the true version of it, not the stripped down current one. Virtually no delay, able to identify fingers, requires less room etc.

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Old
02-26-2013, 08:25 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Barry Dylan View Post
You honestly believe everything Sony says don't you? Your used games include ones you've purchased on PSN.

They've promised services before that they still haven't come through on. I doubt the back library will ever be available through the cloud or the vita would be able to play PSP games. PS4 via remote play? Wasn't that supposed to work with the PSP? The cloud services will be "rolled out in stages" wonder how long that will take.

Lets not forget Gaikai, the military can barely do what Sony wants to do with Gaikai. Or if the supposed specs are true Sony is going to have to take a bath on the console. There will most likely be a massive supply shortage of DDR5 if they actually keep that much ram in it when it ships.

Practically speaking the 720 should be around 10-20% less powerful than the PS4. The processor will be significantly more powerful on the nextbox. The audio processor on the xbox can handle over 1000 concurrent mp3 streams at the same time which is insane.

None of this is confirmed though. Wouldn't surprise me if either company yanked features/hardware.
I believe Sony has learned not to screw with their customers anymore. They didnt lie about much of anything on the PS1 or PS2, and I think they learned their lesson with the PS3, so yea, I have no reason not to believe what they say.

Obviously PSN technically counts as used games, but we are not dicussing that when we generally talk about the used game market. That generally refers to trade ins and such at places like GameStop and I believe Sony understands that used games days are numbered anyways thanks to digital growth, so why push something towards the cliff when its already heading there?

The vita already plays PSP games btw. As for remote play, it worked okay between the PS3 and PSP, and I enjoyed playing some PS3 games on the PSP. Was it perfect? Nope. But I believe the tech is there to be refined into something that can work as Sony says it does.

Sony has always sold hardware a loss when its first released, this will be no different. I wouldn't worry about a DDR5 shortage either, Sony has been going with this type of RAM for months, and they only changed the amount, which really should not be an issue to produce enough for launch by November. Will there be shortages? Yup, but that's pretty normal for consoles (Wii U not included.)

All indications for just about every reliable source is that the consoles are fairly similar but the PS4 will be the more powerful of the two due to being a more open platform and Sony doing nothing but listening to developers. If you believe that the Xbox processor will be "significantly" more power (an irrelevant word I might add without comparison and analysis), then you must also believe that the Xbox will only have 5 gigs of ram accessible for gameplay, with the other 3 going to the OS and Kinect. The PS4 only reserves 512 for its OS, and thus games will have access to 7.5. I honestly don't care about 1000 mp3s, I think Sony is being smarter than Microsoft simply by moving things like video encoding off of the main chip, giving it its separate processor and such.

Almost all the Sony stuff is confirmed. Sony knows that they cannot afford to break any promises they make, and they are working from a position of "nothing to lose". Microsoft, on the other hand, seems like it doesn't remember that brand loyalty is fickle at best in today's economy, and with so many sources confirming the specs of the new Xbox as well as this always online stuff, they really need to be careful how they announce this stuff to the public. The fact that they are leakier than the Titanic right now and working from a position of weakness (both competitors have made themself known, MS is still just rumour and they've done nothing to dispel the negative rumours) doesn't help. I'd love for them to come out and announce a gaming machine, but I have more and more doubts every day that that will be happening. It'll just be a system that plays games and has all these other features of which a large number of them will be either gimped or nonexistent outside of the US and UK markets.

As for Gaikai, while the tech may or may not work out, I give Sony all the credit in the world for trying. They went out and bought the company while they were deep in the hole and having to cut off arms and legs to survive, so there must be something there. The tech may need to evolve or it may only work for people with certain broadband speeds, but I think in some way it will ultimately work.

I am truly optimistic about Sony, and the meeting helped reinforce that. Microsoft has never made a console that interested me even for a second, but I hope they don't head down the road they are going down. They may be 3rd 3 gens in a row if they do, and while they were competitive with the 360, competition is good for the industry and losing that footing would be terrible for the industry as a whole.

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Old
02-26-2013, 09:16 AM
  #130
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Wonder when Microsoft is going to do an unveiling like Sony did?

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02-26-2013, 10:05 AM
  #131
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I just read this whole thread, and now I have no idea which direction I'm going.

I converted from Sony to Microsoft late in the original Xbox lifespan, and kept with MS in the next generation (I think because it was first to market?).

I haven't seen anything about release dates or prices yet; have those been released?

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02-26-2013, 10:35 AM
  #132
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Talk is Microsoft will be announcing in late April, probably around the 27th. If nothing then, expect it for sure in May.

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02-26-2013, 12:35 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by SPV View Post
I just read this whole thread, and now I have no idea which direction I'm going.

I converted from Sony to Microsoft late in the original Xbox lifespan, and kept with MS in the next generation (I think because it was first to market?).

I haven't seen anything about release dates or prices yet; have those been released?
No pricing at all... nothing on next xbox.

PS4 supposed to be out Nov 2013 I think. No pricing on PS4 either... rumour was 2 SKUs, one at $429 and one at $529

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Old
02-26-2013, 03:54 PM
  #134
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Nothing is confirmed until it is in the box. I'm cautiously optimistic about Sony. They just love to disappoint and I dont think they have the manufacturing prowess to ship 3 million consoles with 8gigs of DDR5.

It's all speculation and conjecture at this point I honestly hope Sony and Microsoft deliver on everything.

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Old
02-26-2013, 04:07 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Barry Dylan View Post
Nothing is confirmed until it is in the box. I'm cautiously optimistic about Sony. They just love to disappoint and I dont think they have the manufacturing prowess to ship 3 million consoles with 8gigs of DDR5.

It's all speculation and conjecture at this point I honestly hope Sony and Microsoft deliver on everything.
Why would Sony lie about their specs?

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Old
02-26-2013, 04:25 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Eytinge View Post
Why would Sony lie about their specs?
Lie such a harsh word I'd say they would re-evaluate their situation and lower the amount of ram in the system. Because its going to drive up the price (they will be fighting against nvidia & amd) Its going to generate more heat and take more wattage from the power supply to drive it. There will also definitely be a supply chain problem.

There will be a price war on DDR5 this fall, it is limited to specific chip sizes and more expensive. There will have to be 16 chips of ram on the motherboard for all that.

Now I'm not saying its not going to happen but there is a possibility. It also gives Microsoft a lot of price flexibility if they stick with this plan.

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Old
02-26-2013, 05:06 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry Dylan View Post
Nothing is confirmed until it is in the box. I'm cautiously optimistic about Sony. They just love to disappoint and I dont think they have the manufacturing prowess to ship 3 million consoles with 8gigs of DDR5.

It's all speculation and conjecture at this point I honestly hope Sony and Microsoft deliver on everything.
Sony is the hardware company in this console war...they'll easily manufacture enough chips. They won't change the ram, the developers demanded it and with Mark Cerney in charge if PS4 development, there's no chance he takes it out. He's a dev himself, probably the most important one in the entire industry, and taking out the 8 gigs of DDR5 would sour their relationship with third parties, something they are working very hard at fixing.

While GDDR5 is expensive, Sony isnt paying retail for the chips. It's extremely difficult to ballpark what they'll ballpark for the chips as well, since no one uses in them that high of an amount yet and Sony undoubetly has some leverage with a manufacturer in saying a potential 10 year contract. Not to mention specs for the PS4 are close to or locked by now, because manufacturing needs to start soon.

They are probably utilizing stacking with the ram, at least that was the rumour. In addition to that, the PS4 is said to run cooler than the PS3, which means heat really should not be an issue as long as its put together properly.

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02-26-2013, 05:34 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Orpheus View Post
Sony is the hardware company in this console war...they'll easily manufacture enough chips. They won't change the ram, the developers demanded it and with Mark Cerney in charge if PS4 development, there's no chance he takes it out. He's a dev himself, probably the most important one in the entire industry, and taking out the 8 gigs of DDR5 would sour their relationship with third parties, something they are working very hard at fixing.

While GDDR5 is expensive, Sony isnt paying retail for the chips. It's extremely difficult to ballpark what they'll ballpark for the chips as well, since no one uses in them that high of an amount yet and Sony undoubetly has some leverage with a manufacturer in saying a potential 10 year contract. Not to mention specs for the PS4 are close to or locked by now, because manufacturing needs to start soon.

They are probably utilizing stacking with the ram, at least that was the rumour. In addition to that, the PS4 is said to run cooler than the PS3, which means heat really should not be an issue as long as its put together properly.
Sony doesn't have that kind of manufacturing clout, they aren't Apple. That's laughable.

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Old
02-26-2013, 05:46 PM
  #139
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Sony doesn't have that kind of manufacturing clout, they aren't Apple. That's laughable.
I never compared them to Apple, and I'm not sure why you brought Apple into this.

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02-27-2013, 08:43 AM
  #140
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Originally Posted by ItsAllPartOfThePlan View Post
Wonder when Microsoft is going to do an unveiling like Sony did?
They have an "Xbox Event" scheduled in April.

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02-27-2013, 09:35 AM
  #141
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As a PSP owner, I still take what Sony says with a grain of salt. Specs and features are great, but the PSP never really materialized at all, and it took years for the PS3 to gain traction, partially at the expense of MS' RROD. The Vita is DOA, killed by Nintendo and the rise of smartphones.

Problem I have with MS, is that they want to put everything behind a paywall...which causes me to want to just stick with Steam (and if everyone is just going to go with PC components, I'm wondering why to bother with a console this gen).

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02-27-2013, 09:41 AM
  #142
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Interesting link on operation sports facebook feed right now; about EA sports & Xbox 720 teaming up for exclusives. Can't open the link 'cause it's blocked at work. I can go on facebook, but can't read about video games!!

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02-27-2013, 09:42 AM
  #143
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As a PSP owner, I still take what Sony says with a grain of salt. Specs and features are great, but the PSP never really materialized at all, and it took years for the PS3 to gain traction, partially at the expense of MS' RROD. The Vita is DOA, killed by Nintendo and the rise of smartphones.

Problem I have with MS, is that they want to put everything behind a paywall...which causes me to want to just stick with Steam (and if everyone is just going to go with PC components, I'm wondering why to bother with a console this gen).
Vita actually has higher amounts of digital game sales than the Ps3. In addition to the ability to play PSP games and possible good remote play with a PS4, it's becoming a better deal every day. The only reason I haven't bought one (and a few of my friends feel the same way) is because of the absolutely ridiculous cost of extra memory cards. Once those go down and the machine gets a bit cheaper, I'll probably pick one up.

What the PSVita needs is games, games and more games. The PSP did fine when it was out (aside from the horrible PSP Go) and all the Vita needs is a couple of good, must-have games. That and a price cut on stuff like memory cards. Is it going to sell as much as Nintendo's hardware? No, but it doesn't need to to break even. Even in the console space, consoles that don't sell as much as the Ps2 aren't viewed as failures, it depends on the company's sales goals. I'm sure no one at Sony is hoping for 3DS level sales, but they'd probably be happy with about 100-150k units a month globally and slowly but surely growing the Vita base.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPV View Post
Interesting link on operation sports facebook feed right now; about EA sports & Xbox 720 teaming up for exclusives. Can't open the link 'cause it's blocked at work. I can go on facebook, but can't read about video games!!
It's people reading into something. A writer suggested the two companies could be teaming up for exclusive DLC and other bonuses (this happens every gen with various companies) and no one has ever said EA games would be exclusive to Xbox. EA has also said as of yesterday they are really excited about the Ps4 and cannot wait to unveil the console version of Battlefield, so I'm going to say the chance of any game going exclusive is crazy (unless it's Mirror's Edge)

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02-27-2013, 10:01 AM
  #144
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The Vita is the PSP 2.0.

High cost, proprietary memory cards, lack of games...if not for homebrew, I never would've used my PSP much. I think I only bought about 6-7 games for it, and I bought it when first released. Sony just didn't understand the importance of games, it's a games console first, media features 2nd. and even though the Vita is about 2x powerful as my iPhone 4S, it's hard to beat the price of most games on iOS too.

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02-27-2013, 10:12 AM
  #145
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The Vita is the PSP 2.0.

High cost, proprietary memory cards, lack of games...if not for homebrew, I never would've used my PSP much. I think I only bought about 6-7 games for it, and I bought it when first released. Sony just didn't understand the importance of games, it's a games console first, media features 2nd. and even though the Vita is about 2x powerful as my iPhone 4S, it's hard to beat the price of most games on iOS too.
I think we will see a PSVita slim or something within the next year as well as an attempt to relaunch the platform. Pushing it as a complimentary piece to a PS4 is smart, but they also need to show that it has games of its own that you can't get anywhere else (aka less PS3 ports).

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02-27-2013, 01:17 PM
  #146
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I want to buy the Vita but the 250 price tag along with the crazy memory cards have put me off it.

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02-27-2013, 02:26 PM
  #147
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I have a Vita, and the only thing holding me back from attempting to purchase games is the insane cost of memory cards. The one they gave me simply doesn't allow me the space to purchase games.

Not that there's many games to begin with, but Uncharted for instance takes up more than the card itself.

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02-27-2013, 02:45 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Orpheus View Post


It's people reading into something. A writer suggested the two companies could be teaming up for exclusive DLC and other bonuses (this happens every gen with various companies) and no one has ever said EA games would be exclusive to Xbox. EA has also said as of yesterday they are really excited about the Ps4 and cannot wait to unveil the console version of Battlefield, so I'm going to say the chance of any game going exclusive is crazy (unless it's Mirror's Edge)

Good, based off what I"m reading thus far, I'm leaning towards the PS4; so I'll be a convert unless I see something from MS before launch date to sway me back in that direction.

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02-27-2013, 03:04 PM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Eytinge View Post
I want to buy the Vita but the 250 price tag along with the crazy memory cards have put me off it.
Ya i'd get one too... but really there's maybe 4 games i'm even semi-interested in...

That's why I was saying i'd like a PS4 sku that comes with a Vita.

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02-27-2013, 03:46 PM
  #150
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Not entirely impressed with the PS4 or the lineup of sequels they introduced. I personally could care less about the social aspect and the game streaming. If you dont have internet you are out on most of the main features. They pretty much banned used games with out directly saying it and next gen will be crazy with activation codes and DRM.

Xbox 720 rumors are scaring me. I think gaming is going to be secondary in importance with all in one media center being the main selling point. Microsoft has been hinting at doing that nearly every E3 so far and I doubt they switch gears. I also wouldnt be suprised if they get a GTA 5 timed exclusive, they have the money to do it unlike Sony.

For the first time ever, I am seriously considering going to PC for my main gaming needs. Ps4 pretty much came off as a PC with limitations and the UI looked like Windows 8.

If I have to get a console, it will most likely be the Wii U, if they can get some 3rd party games, mainly GTA.

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