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Getting Kronwalled

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Old
02-26-2013, 03:47 PM
  #76
tarheelhockey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertKron View Post
Sure. I understand that. It's just pretty clear from the full-speed videos that he's launching upwards. It really doesn't matter if he's coming off the ice a split second before or after contact. Guy is a predatory player, but he's also not throwing Downie-McCammond flying hits. He walks the line, and times his hits really well. He also refuses to back it up, and that will make him unpopular around the league either way.
I agree that he's not throwing the types of hits that should result in suspensions. However, on hits like the Kesler, Heatley and Peverley jumping checks he should be getting charging penalties per the rulebook: "A minor or major penalty shall be imposed on a player who skates or jumps into, or charges an opponent in any manner."

The fact that they're unpenalized is the real problem here. If they drew penalties, he'd stop doing it and stick to the legit hard-ass bodychecks like the one on Voracek.

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02-26-2013, 03:49 PM
  #77
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Although they say Kronwall's hit is technically allowed by the rules, I don't think it should be. It's pretty much an instant concussion. This league says they are trying to work on player safety/headshots and they need to get this hit out of here. Sure, he's not leading with his elbow, but a back to the head is brutal. In the rules or not, Kronwall is only trying to do one thing to that player. Give him a concussion.

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02-26-2013, 03:52 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by luongo321 View Post
Although they say Kronwall's hit is technically allowed by the rules, I don't think it should be. It's pretty much an instant concussion. This league says they are trying to work on player safety/headshots and they need to get this hit out of here. Sure, he's not leading with his elbow, but a back to the head is brutal. In the rules or not, Kronwall is only trying to do one thing to that player. Give him a concussion.
I guess it's out of question that separating a man from the puck is considered defense?

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02-26-2013, 03:53 PM
  #79
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i thought it was funny last year when kronwall kept lining people up in the same exact spot and nobody seemed to learn

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02-26-2013, 03:54 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luongo321 View Post
Although they say Kronwall's hit is technically allowed by the rules, I don't think it should be. It's pretty much an instant concussion. This league says they are trying to work on player safety/headshots and they need to get this hit out of here. Sure, he's not leading with his elbow, but a back to the head is brutal. In the rules or not, Kronwall is only trying to do one thing to that player. Give him a concussion.


That is beyond the pale.

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02-26-2013, 03:55 PM
  #81
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Neely left his feet on most hits as well.

Best power forward ever.


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02-26-2013, 03:59 PM
  #82
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Kronwall's hits are sometimes borderline. It's rare that he leaves his feet before actually making contact. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but some people here are making him out to be a dirty hitter/player when that's not the case.

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02-26-2013, 04:07 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by rrasco View Post
I guess it's out of question that separating a man from the puck is considered defense?
If playing a man 40 feet from where he's supposed to be is considered by Kronwall to be defense, that would explain why the other team scores on what seems like half his shifts.

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02-26-2013, 04:15 PM
  #84
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I love the irrational Kronwall hate. I think people hate hitting in general, actually. It goes something like this:

1. That was an elbow!
2. Okay, it wasn't an elbow, but it was a head shot!
3. Okay, head shots aren't illegal, but he jumped into it!
4. Okay, so he didn't jump, but if you want to hit a player like that, you have to fight!

It seems like the logical next step is:

5. Don't hit my team's players at all! Hitting is dangerous.

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02-26-2013, 04:16 PM
  #85
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The issue I have with Kronwall's hits is that they are predatory, though not in the normal sense. The fact that he is always making the same type of hit leads me to believe that he actively looks to make that hit on an unaware and vulnerable player, a hit which he should know by now can easily lead to serious head injuries. He makes that hit often enough that he is fully aware of the situation and consequences but he doesn't hesitate because he is not at risk of injury.

I don't think he needs to destroy head down players like that in order to stop them. Seems like a respect issue for me.

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02-26-2013, 04:19 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
If playing a man 40 feet from where he's supposed to be is considered by Kronwall to be defense, that would explain why the other team scores on what seems like half his shifts.
You bring up an interesting point, because if the other team's players don't throw a hissy fit and go after Kronwall they would probably have a pretty good scoring chance. It happens.

I'm about 99% sure Calgary scored right after this hit because of that exact reason.


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02-26-2013, 04:22 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by kingpest19 View Post
How was Armstrong ran out of the league? He put up 26 point combined the last 2 seasons because of injuries and inconsistencies. Kind of hard to tlsay he was ran out of the league.
His suspensions ran him out of the league because his hits are where he made his money in the league. That is my Brian Burke signed him.

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02-26-2013, 04:22 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by BRSC7 View Post
The issue I have with Kronwall's hits is that they are predatory, though not in the normal sense. The fact that he is always making the same type of hit leads me to believe that he actively looks to make that hit on an unaware and vulnerable player, a hit which he should know by now can easily lead to serious head injuries. He makes that hit often enough that he is fully aware of the situation and consequences but he doesn't hesitate because he is not at risk of injury.

I don't think he needs to destroy head down players like that in order to stop them. Seems like a respect issue for me.
This is exactly what I was talking about. I don't think there's anything wrong with laying out a guy who doesn't see it. I think that's actually a big part of what hitting is. It only becomes a bad thing when you're really contacting the head or elbowing or similarly dangerous things.

But the fact that they don't know it's coming is a big part of what hitting is. Most of the time if you DO know it's coming, you don't get hit.

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02-26-2013, 04:23 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Johnny Cupcakes View Post
I'm not saying it's illegal or dirty, but I personally, for some reason, hate his whole hitting with his back nonsense. It just seems chicken-**** to me. I don't know why.
That's exactly what it is.

One day he's gonna get fed real good after one of his "clean, non-predatory hits". OV is another one who has mastered the charge and jump hit.

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02-26-2013, 04:27 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Marcus Halberstram View Post
That's exactly what it is.

One day he's gonna get fed real good after one of his "clean, non-predatory hits". OV is another one who has mastered the charge and jump hit.
Why is hitting with his back chicken****, and why do you put clean in scare quotes? Wouldn't hitting with his back make the hit cleaner because he can't contact the head with his shoulder, forearm, or elbow? If anything, that seems to be a smart adaptation; he can still hit guys hard, but he lowers the chance of injuring them with it.


Last edited by TMI: 02-27-2013 at 10:16 AM. Reason: borderline flaming
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02-26-2013, 04:28 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRSC7 View Post
The issue I have with Kronwall's hits is that they are predatory, though not in the normal sense. The fact that he is always making the same type of hit leads me to believe that he actively looks to make that hit on an unaware and vulnerable player, a hit which he should know by now can easily lead to serious head injuries. He makes that hit often enough that he is fully aware of the situation and consequences but he doesn't hesitate because he is not at risk of injury.

I don't think he needs to destroy head down players like that in order to stop them. Seems like a respect issue for me.
Big hits are part of the game, and some people are going to have to get used to it.

It completely changes the momentum of the game for the team that made the hit.

Not every hit is made JUST to separate the man from the puck. Players are taught even as kids that hard hits are a good thing if they are clean, which 95% of Kronwalls are.

Of course his hits are on unsuspecting players. Its nearly impossible to make a hard hit on a player that sees it coming and can brace for it. Thats actually what makes his hits so impressive is that he can catch so many players off guard and make big hits.

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02-26-2013, 04:30 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
His suspensions ran him out of the league because his hits are where he made his money in the league. That is my Brian Burke signed him.
Burke also signed him to chip in offensively which he didnt do on top of not being healthy. Youve still failed to explain how he was ran out of the league when hes still in the league.

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02-26-2013, 04:31 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
This is an example of Kronwall jumping into a hit.

Apologies for the poor resolution; Paint reduces the size of the color palette. If you want to see it in HD, find the same frames in the video posted in the OP. This hit was #2 on the list, and the replay begins at 7:33. You will see, as noted in the captions that his feet are both completely off the ice at the point of contact.










There is absolutely no doubt in this case that he rises completely off the ice because of his own leg thrust, before he bounces off his target. The bounce still occurs, as you can see in the final frame, but only after airborne contact has already been made.

Some of his hits don't meet this definition, but in this case it's not disputable that he jumped into the hit.
Quality analysis.

Could you do one or 2 more of the hits ?

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02-26-2013, 04:32 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Definition View Post
This thread is hilarious.

We all want a fast and physical league, then when somebody gets hit we slow it down frame by frame and look at it from 200 different angles and post all kinds of screenshots before finally determining that it was somehow dirty. It's not just Kronwall either, it's everybody. This is the NHL. Let players hit for God's sake.
I think the fans have become paranoid to lose players. At one point, Scott Stevens was a clean player (despite ending careers elbowing people in the face) and a great guy. That was before the concussion epidemic. Today, Kronwall DOESN'T hurt guys like that and he's a villain because how DARE he hit my team's player! Hits can cause concussions, and I don't want my players to get concussed.

The fans are so terrified to lose players that they'd throw out the physical side of the game entirely.

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02-26-2013, 04:36 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by nbwingsfan View Post
Big hits are part of the game, and some people are going to have to get used to it.

It completely changes the momentum of the game for the team that made the hit.

Not every hit is made JUST to separate the man from the puck. Players are taught even as kids that hard hits are a good thing if they are clean, which 95% of Kronwalls are.

Of course his hits are on unsuspecting players. Its nearly impossible to make a hard hit on a player that sees it coming and can brace for it. Thats actually what makes his hits so impressive is that he can catch so many players off guard and make big hits.
Again, Colby Armstrong had a vintage around-the-net hit that was suspended out of the league. He hunted for those hits just like Kronwall is.

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02-26-2013, 04:38 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru Meditation View Post
I think the fans have become paranoid to lose players. At one point, Scott Stevens was a clean player (despite ending careers elbowing people in the face) and a great guy. That was before the concussion epidemic. Today, Kronwall DOESN'T hurt guys like that and he's a villain because how DARE he hit my team's player! Hits can cause concussions, and I don't want my players to get concussed.

The fans are so terrified to lose players that they'd throw out the physical side of the game entirely.
UNLESS ... it is their team throwing the hit! Quite the predicament. As a Wings fan, I expect our team to get bullied a bit and only now with Tootoo on the team expect anyone to stand up for the rest of the crew. I guess Bertuzzi and Ericsson could drop the gloves as well, but oh well. Hitting is part of the game. It won't ever go away and to see so many people cry bloody murder after every big clean hit is so, so sad. For example: Brad Stuart on Gabby Landeskog.

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02-26-2013, 04:56 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by rrasco View Post
You bring up an interesting point, because if the other team's players don't throw a hissy fit and go after Kronwall they would probably have a pretty good scoring chance. It happens.

I'm about 99% sure Calgary scored right after this hit because of that exact reason.

Good video evidence. That 2 on 1 was his fault. The guy who took possession was Kronwall's guy and had nobody within 30 feet of him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nbwingsfan View Post
Of course his hits are on unsuspecting players. Its nearly impossible to make a hard hit on a player that sees it coming and can brace for it. Thats actually what makes his hits so impressive is that he can catch so many players off guard and make big hits.
This is the exact opposite of how hitting was practiced for most of hockey's history. The hitter would usually yell "heads up" or "on you" at the guy he was about to hit as a way to say "about to hit you so watch out you don't get killed."

If you've ever seen Gary Roberts play, you'll notice he would slam his stick on the ice a second before finishing a guy for the same reason. Could be wrong, but I think Craig Adams is a current guy who still yells (something).

For a Red Wings example, I'm 99% sure Gordie Howe has mentioned that he used to do this.

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02-26-2013, 04:57 PM
  #98
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How many times has Ballard been suspended for his hip-checks..?
He gets a penalty for it every time now. Ask any Canucks fan.

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02-26-2013, 04:57 PM
  #99
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LOL at all the Kronwall haters. I love watching a good Kronwalling, and I also love it when the team gets ******** and takes a stupid penalty afterwards (even if our power play can't score often lol).

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02-26-2013, 04:59 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by BRSC7 View Post
The issue I have with Kronwall's hits is that they are predatory, though not in the normal sense. The fact that he is always making the same type of hit leads me to believe that he actively looks to make that hit on an unaware and vulnerable player, a hit which he should know by now can easily lead to serious head injuries. He makes that hit often enough that he is fully aware of the situation and consequences but he doesn't hesitate because he is not at risk of injury.

I don't think he needs to destroy head down players like that in order to stop them. Seems like a respect issue for me.
That's a fair point. However hockey is a physical sport. Kronwall's hits are always north-south hits that do not come from the player's blindside. Therefore players are not in a vulnerable position, they just have their heads down. One of the first things you learn in hockey is to keep your head up in order to prevent getting your bell rung. The hit is legal by NHL standards and whether or not you agree it is a respectable hit is a better discussion than the legality of the hit.


Last edited by stallion19: 02-26-2013 at 05:45 PM.
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