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Leafs 10th in TSN Power Rankings

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Old
02-26-2013, 08:37 PM
  #76
david999
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Originally Posted by BallHockeyLegend View Post
Yes.

What I said is Kostka, Holzer and Fraser are playing well now, but I don't expect it to last. Same way Ottawa is playing well now icing their AHL team. Players get a chance to play in the NHL and play their hearts out. The adrenaline wears off after a while and their weaknesses start to glare.

Benching or at least severely limiting Orr, McClaren and Brown's ice time is all but a certainty. Show me an enforcer who played 5 minutes a game during the regular season who played any significant amount of time (5 minutes or more) during a deep play off run... it doesn't happen. Regular season is different than playoffs.

I'll further explain, I appreciate Orr, McClaren and Brown probably more than the average fan. I love fighting. During the regular season it keeps your star players injury free over a long 82 game season (assuming Phaneuf doesn't hit them with a slap shot). However, in the playoffs only players who can be relied upon defensively end up playing a regular shift. The stakes are too high in the playoffs to let an enforcer be on the ice. Orr doesn't fight against regular players, he fights against other team's heavyweights. He won't be able to pick someone out for a fight and give the team a boost. If he tries to pick a fight, chances are he'll end up with a roughing or instigator penalty. Therefor, if Orr can't fight.. he's out.
You do remember that Boston changed their fortunes when they dressed Thorton in the playoffs winning the Cup? Did it occur to you Carlyle has been increasing the ice time of his tougher players to likely prepare them for ice time in the playoffs? I don't see Carlyle changing his regular season philosophy for the playoffs.

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02-26-2013, 08:39 PM
  #77
Leo Trollmarov
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Originally Posted by BallHockeyLegend View Post

Show me an enforcer who played 5 minutes a game during the regular season who played any significant amount of time (5 minutes or more) during a deep play off run... it doesn't happen.
Enjoy.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/statistics/pl.../3/order/false

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02-26-2013, 08:40 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by david999 View Post
You do remember that Boston changed their fortunes when they dressed Thorton in the playoffs winning the Cup? Did it occur to you Carlyle has been increasing the ice time of his tougher players to likely prepare them for ice time in the playoffs? I don't see Carlyle changing his regular season philosophy for the playoffs.
Yep. Guys like George Parros and Brad May were staples on the fourth line for Carlyle during the Ducks' Cup run.

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02-26-2013, 08:46 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Frank Stallone View Post
Yep. Guys like George Parros and Brad May were staples on the fourth line for Carlyle during the Ducks' Cup run.
And both of those guys are defensively responsible. Frazer McLaren is decent defensively. Orr is less than average and Brown is average. However, acquire another defensively responsible centre at the TDL and put him between McLaren and Orr and that line will be fine.

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02-26-2013, 08:49 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by david999 View Post
You do remember that Boston changed their fortunes when they dressed Thorton in the playoffs winning the Cup? Did it occur to you Carlyle has been increasing the ice time of his tougher players to likely prepare them for ice time in the playoffs? I don't see Carlyle changing his regular season philosophy for the playoffs.
Just look at the 06/07 ducks, Carlyle iced Parros in 5 games in the playoffs out of 20 where he averaged 3:49 during those games. Shawn Thornton had his minutes cut in half, from 8 minutes to 4 minutes. Brad May had his minutes cut from 10 minutes to 7:20. Both Brad May and Shawn Thornton are much better hockey players than Orr, McClared and Brown.

For Boston Shawn Thornton was benched for 7 games during their run. During the regular season he averaged 10 minutes over 79 games and then played 7 minutes in the playoffs. A reduced roll, albeit not as dramatic. However like I said Shawn Thornton is a more capable player than Orr, McClaren or Brown.

I don't think Carlyle is slowly increasing their minutes in some master plan to get them ready for the playoffs. I think Orr hustled hard, scored a goal and won a couple big fights so Randy Carlyle rewarded him with extra minutes. Nothing more, nothing less.

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02-26-2013, 08:53 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by The Saurus View Post
And both of those guys are defensively responsible. Frazer McLaren is decent defensively. Orr is less than average and Brown is average. However, acquire another defensively responsible centre at the TDL and put him between McLaren and Orr and that line will be fine.
We have that in McClement. He was a big reason why that line looked fine when it was together. Once Lupul and Frattin return, McClement should slide back onto the 4th line.

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02-26-2013, 08:53 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Leo Trollmarov View Post
I'll eat crow on Mike Rupp but giving me a list that includes Ryan Ellis, Andrei Loktionov, Zack Kassian etc is a bit misleading.

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02-26-2013, 08:54 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Frank Stallone View Post
Yep. Guys like George Parros and Brad May were staples on the fourth line for Carlyle during the Ducks' Cup run.
George Parros played 5 games during their cup run.

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02-26-2013, 08:56 PM
  #84
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We have that in McClement. He was a big reason why that line looked fine when it was together. Once Lupul and Frattin return, McClement should slide back onto the 4th line.
I feel that McClemment should get more than fourth line minutes, though. His work ethic dictates as such.

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02-27-2013, 03:08 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by BallHockeyLegend View Post
Which Leafs players are tougher than these three? Thornton is 35 now so it's no wonder why he's seeing diminished ice time, but when they won the Stanley Cup he averaged 10 minutes during the regular season and 7 minutes during the playoffs. Colton Orr average 10 minutes over two games and it was practically front page news in Toronto. He's not going to play those minutes on a regular basis.

If you think guys like JVR/Lupul/Kulemin are stronger and grittier than Horton and Lucic, I respectfully disagree.
The 3 Bruins mentioned are bullies. They become a liability to their team, when they cannot intimidate the opponent. The Leafs' toughest players force the Bruins bullies to fight, or play. The bullies choose to play, and not fight players that fight as well, or better than they do. Consequently, those minutes you mentioned they play, become a liability to the Bruins.

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02-27-2013, 03:11 PM
  #86
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The Leafs are going to the Cup Finals this year. Their is no way any Eastern Conference team can handle the Leaf's toughness in a 7 game series.
Boston could. If we somehow dodge Boston we could make a run...maybe.

But I'm more concerned about getting in.

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02-27-2013, 03:12 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by SprDaVE View Post
One of Montreal, Ottawa or Toronto will fall back down a bit.

I do expect 4 of the 5 NE teams to make the playoffs though.
I agree, strong showing from NE this year, which is a nice thing to see.
As other people said, I won't be content until the last game is done, but I can't help feel slightly good looking forwards into the season.
I think with 2 young goalies a half season is the best they can get too, no worries about having them (more likely Scrivens) burn out too early.

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02-27-2013, 03:13 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by BallHockeyLegend View Post
George Parros played 5 games during their cup run.
'Guys like' - as in enforcers. Parros played 5, Scott Thornton played 15 and Brad May played 18.

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02-27-2013, 03:18 PM
  #89
Alflives
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Originally Posted by Doshy View Post
Boston could. If we somehow dodge Boston we could make a run...maybe.

But I'm more concerned about getting in.
The Leafs will beat Boston. I think the Bruins would be more worried about playing the Leafs, especially Horton, Thorton and Lucic. They would have to fight guys a lot tougher than they are. Thorton already tried to match up with Scott (Buffalo) and we all saw what happened there.

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02-27-2013, 03:22 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
The Leafs will beat Boston. I think the Bruins would be more worried about playing the Leafs, especially Horton, Thorton and Lucic. They would have to fight guys a lot tougher than they are. Thorton already tried to match up with Scott (Buffalo) and we all saw what happened there.
Fights tend to happen a lot less frequently in playoffs, don't they? It's mostly just large group hugs on ice, because penalties matter so much more when you only get a max of 7 games.
I doubt a game against Boston will become a boxing match, where goons will be our key players :/

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02-27-2013, 03:29 PM
  #91
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I feel that McClemment should get more than fourth line minutes, though. His work ethic dictates as such.
He'll get the additional minutes on the penalty kill. IIRC he was/is the pk minutes leader for forwards in the NHL.

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02-27-2013, 03:33 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
The Leafs are going to the Cup Finals this year. Their is no way any Eastern Conference team can handle the Leaf's toughness in a 7 game series.
You do realize when a much more talented big bad Bruins won the cup in 2011 they were pushed to game 7 in three of the four rounds by three of the softest teams in the league.

Based on the Habs losing in OT and Lightning losing 1-0 in game 7 I find it hard to believe that either of these "soft" teams were worn down by the Bruins toughness.

Toughness is good, but it's not going to win you the East alone because even the softest teams in the league can fight through it in the playoffs.

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02-27-2013, 07:35 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Frank Stallone View Post
'Guys like' - as in enforcers. Parros played 5, Scott Thornton played 15 and Brad May played 18.
Fair enough, I think if your "Guys like" is to be interpreted as such then it's misleading to use George Parros name (5 mins a game enforcer) when in fact you meant Shawn Thornton and Brad May who played a regular shift during the regular season and are (read: were) much better hockey players than Brown, McClaren and Orr.

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02-28-2013, 10:35 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by BallHockeyLegend View Post
Fair enough, I think if your "Guys like" is to be interpreted as such then it's misleading to use George Parros name (5 mins a game enforcer) when in fact you meant Shawn Thornton and Brad May who played a regular shift during the regular season and are (read: were) much better hockey players than Brown, McClaren and Orr.
It's arguable that the Leaf's 'tough' guys were the best Leafs' players against Montreal.

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02-28-2013, 10:55 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Alflives View Post
The Leafs will beat Boston. I think the Bruins would be more worried about playing the Leafs, especially Horton, Thorton and Lucic. They would have to fight guys a lot tougher than they are. Thorton already tried to match up with Scott (Buffalo) and we all saw what happened there.
The Bruins would be worried about playing the Leafs in the playoffs? Sarcasm?

Any team can beat any team in the playoffs, they are all professionals and good enough to win. But - that statement is ridiculous.

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02-28-2013, 11:29 AM
  #96
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The Bruins would be worried about playing the Leafs in the playoffs? Sarcasm?

Any team can beat any team in the playoffs, they are all professionals and good enough to win. But - that statement is ridiculous.
If you re-read my previous post, you will notice I specified 3 Bruin's players. Those three players (who are bullies) would have to fight the Leafs' tough guys. Bullies don't like having to 'answer the bell' against someone who is as tough, or tougher, than they are. Consequenlty, they would be worried.

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