no. you completely contradicted yourself. you went from saying, 'let's wait it out - can't expect an 18 year old to just come out guns blazing and score 40' to 'he's the best right now. no one compares to him.'
by doing that, you're simply proving to those who are saying, 'i prefer Galchenyuk now and in the future' that they are right. you're no different than those you're calling out.
My "wait it out" was more in reference to those pointing out "ZOMG YAKUPOV IS STRUGGLING" (which he really isn't). If anyone else were in the NHL and had a bad stretch of games and people jumped down on him I'd say the same thing. I don't know why you don't grasp that Yakupov still has the highest ceiling/is the best player from the draft until proven otherwise.
Just because Yakupov was the consensus no.1 doesn't really mean his ceiling is the highest. In fact, I think the whole idea of a guy's ceiling is a little bit ridiculous. Different players develop at different rates and at different times. Doesn't every player realistically have an unlimited ceiling until the time his career is over? Sure some guys are more skilled than others, and we can pretty safely assume a guy like Yakupov has a higher ceiling than a guy like Murray, but I don't think anyone would have said Datsyuk had the highest (or 2nd highest if you count Lecavalier as no.1) ceiling in the 98 draft 2 days, 2 months or even 2 years after it happened. Seems like a waste of time to me trying to predict where a guys potential will land him if everything goes perfectly. It rarely does. Players bust and players "overachieve".
Back to Yakupov: first off, the guy looks like an absolute beast of a goalscorer. I haven't seen a shot like that on a kid in a long time and he knows where and when to shoot it on net. That being said, he's small, rather soft, and up to this point prone to some poor decisions with the puck. There is a reason he has bounced around in the lineup. And it's not because he has been excelling in the puck management department. You can see he has obvious skill on the ice, but skill doesn't always mean he has the most potential.
I think he is going to be an awesome player in the league, but he has some serious deficiencies in his game he needs to work on first.
At this point in time, Galchenyuk looks like a better NHLer. I say that as a Habs fan in the most unbiased way possible. That doesn't mean it will always be the case. Where they end up 5, 10 or 15 years from now is anyone's guess.
My "wait it out" was more in reference to those pointing out "ZOMG YAKUPOV IS STRUGGLING" (which he really isn't). If anyone else were in the NHL and had a bad stretch of games and people jumped down on him I'd say the same thing. I don't know why you don't grasp that Yakupov still has the highest ceiling/is the best player from the draft until proven otherwise.
because you can't put 'ceiling' and 'proven' in the same ****ing sentence when comparing players.
Yakupov looks like a real solid player with room to grow - but why are you flipping out when people are choosing Galchenyuk over him 'right now'? he is playing better than Yakupov - even if it's a very small sample. this is where you contradicted yourself. you went from saying we should wait it out to Yakupov being the best.
i personally believe Rielly and Galchenyuk have a higher ceiling than Yakupov. Rielly has the potential ( read: potential ) to be an all-around no.1 defenseman who could put up numbers close to Erik Karlsson and Galchenyuk has the potential to be an all-around no.1 center who puts up more than a PPG.
will they reach that potential? who knows. it's very possible that they don't. it doesn't mean that Yakupov was drafted 1st overall that he's going to have the best career - it only means that he was the best player at the time.
I've watched a lot of Oilers games this year and I honestly don't feel like Yakupov will as good as he's touted to be. Also, his potential isn't as high as people claim. Before I get flammed to death, listen to me.
He reminds me of a poor man's Ovi who doesn't have the size. It's kind of like how Afinogenov was a bankrupt man's Pavel Bure. We all know how difficult it is to score goals these days. The way he played in the OHL won't translate well into the NHL. He does have an amazing nose for the net. Great speed and a great shot.
I look at his play away from the puck and it's not very impressive either. [Yes, he's only 19 and has PLENTY time to improve]. But I see him as a 30-35G 40-45A 70-75 pts guy MAX at the peak of his career.
People were saying that this guy is a future multiple times 50G+ and 50A+ type of talent but I don't see it. Not in this era of hockey.
That will probably be enough to be the best talent out of the 2012 draft honestly.
Finally someone answering the question instead of comparing past first overall picks, complaining about defensive play, and all the other rhetoric.
The answer simply is this. 90% of educated hockey people would give this answer.
Probably half of all drafts or more, the #1 pick doesn't end up being the best player out of the draft. Even in some of the drafts where they hit what was considered to be their "ceiling".
Scouts try to "project" a prospects ceiling at the draft, but they are regularly wrong. I'm not talking about a player not hitting their ceiling either, more that they undervalue other prospects.
Clearly when you have late round picks turn into Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Rinne, etc. There are late round picks whose ceiling IS that of a league-wide top top player, and the scouts/analysts/hockey fans prior to the draft were simply wrong.
So to say Yakupov definitely has the highest ceiling is false, because we simply do not know what the ceilings are for most players.
If the statement is that Yakupov projects to have the highest ceiling, that's a completely different statement.
because you can't put 'ceiling' and 'proven' in the same ****ing sentence when comparing players.
Yakupov looks like a real solid player with room to grow - but why are you flipping out when people are choosing Galchenyuk over him 'right now'? he is playing better than Yakupov - even if it's a very small sample. this is where you contradicted yourself. you went from saying we should wait it out to Yakupov being the best.
i personally believe Rielly and Galchenyuk have a higher ceiling than Yakupov. Rielly has the potential ( read: potential ) to be an all-around no.1 defenseman who could put up numbers close to Erik Karlsson and Galchenyuk has the potential to be an all-around no.1 center who puts up more than a PPG.
will they reach that potential? who knows. it's very possible that they don't. it doesn't mean that Yakupov was drafted 1st overall that he's going to have the best career - it only means that he was the best player at the time.
And what is Yakupov's potential if you believe Rielly's got the potential to be the next Karlsson?
And what is Yakupov's potential if you believe Rielly's got the potential to be the next Karlsson?
Yakupov has the potential to be a 50+ goal scorer. he's got the speed, the shot and the right teammates to get there. will he get there? who knows.
the real concern i have about him is outside the offensive zone. but learning to backcheck and stick to your man is way easier than learning how to break through defensive systems.
This is what happens when too many Canadian teams are picking in the top 10. Ridiculous prospect squabbling. "Galchenyuk is better than Yakupov AINEC!" "Rielly has a higher ceiling than Yak!" "Hey, don't forget about Trouba!"
Why not let it all play out instead of criticizing a rookie for not scoring at a 40 goal pace right away.
By the way, did you guys see Yakupov's goal against the Blackhawks? What a rocket of a shot.
This.
The kid makes some boneheaded plays at time, but he has the ability to put the puck in the net, and quite often at that.
Total Toronto bias. He's a good prospect but he's not the top player from the draft. Period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarriorofTime
This is what happens when too many Canadian teams are picking in the top 10. Ridiculous prospect squabbling. "Galchenyuk is better than Yakupov AINEC!" "Rielly has a higher ceiling than Yak!" "Hey, don't forget about Trouba!"
Why not let it all play out instead of criticizing a rookie for not scoring at a 40 goal pace right away.
By the way, did you guys see Yakupov's goal against the Blackhawks? What a rocket of a shot.
What do you think of Trouba then, as he easily outplayed Reilly at the wjc, and is dominating the NCAA now?
By the way. Galchenyuk
Still looking for the connection between Trouba having a good tournament and him having an unquestionable higher ceiling than Rielly. Also when did the poster say that he thought Rielly had the highest ceiling in the draft? Never. So why is Galch brought up?
I don't agree with any of that user's comments, but brush up on your debate skills here.
Just because Yakupov was the consensus no.1 doesn't really mean his ceiling is the highest. In fact, I think the whole idea of a guy's ceiling is a little bit ridiculous. Different players develop at different rates and at different times. Doesn't every player realistically have an unlimited ceiling until the time his career is over? Sure some guys are more skilled than others, and we can pretty safely assume a guy like Yakupov has a higher ceiling than a guy like Murray, but I don't think anyone would have said Datsyuk had the highest (or 2nd highest if you count Lecavalier as no.1) ceiling in the 98 draft 2 days, 2 months or even 2 years after it happened. Seems like a waste of time to me trying to predict where a guys potential will land him if everything goes perfectly. It rarely does. Players bust and players "overachieve".
Back to Yakupov: first off, the guy looks like an absolute beast of a goalscorer. I haven't seen a shot like that on a kid in a long time and he knows where and when to shoot it on net. That being said, he's small, rather soft, and up to this point prone to some poor decisions with the puck. There is a reason he has bounced around in the lineup. And it's not because he has been excelling in the puck management department. You can see he has obvious skill on the ice, but skill doesn't always mean he has the most potential.
I think he is going to be an awesome player in the league, but he has some serious deficiencies in his game he needs to work on first.
At this point in time, Galchenyuk looks like a better NHLer. I say that as a Habs fan in the most unbiased way possible. That doesn't mean it will always be the case. Where they end up 5, 10 or 15 years from now is anyone's guess.
There is probably no point in debating Yakupov vs Galchenyuk since I doubt that the debate would be unbiased. And for the record, until the Oilers won the lottery I wanted Galchenyuk above anyone else. I still would have taken him at #2. But one thing I will say for sure is that Yakupov is most definitely not soft.
There is probably no point in debating Yakupov vs Galchenyuk since I doubt that the debate would be unbiased. And for the record, until the Oilers won the lottery I wanted Galchenyuk above anyone else. I still would have taken him at #2. But one thing I will say for sure is that Yakupov is most definitely not soft.
You're right. I apologize. Yakupov is not soft. Perhaps undersized would have been a better word. He's not afraid of contact so to speak, but with his small stature he can't throw his body around like I'm sure he wants to, and is used to, which certainly limits his effectiveness in the physical department.
And FYI I used to live in Edmonton, so I follow the Oilers quite closely, they are near to my heart. We could definitely have the discussion without me being biased, I swear. But let's just leave it at they are both awesome players with awesome futures. As long as Yakupov keeps working on his game, that is.
My "wait it out" was more in reference to those pointing out "ZOMG YAKUPOV IS STRUGGLING" (which he really isn't). If anyone else were in the NHL and had a bad stretch of games and people jumped down on him I'd say the same thing. I don't know why you don't grasp that Yakupov still has the highest ceiling/is the best player from the draft until proven otherwise.
Yakupov never had the highest ceiling of the 2012 draft. All that hype was media driven.
Galchenyuk was always the true best player in the draft. Gally if not for being hurt would have been drafted higher than #3. I dont really care what spot your drafted at either because that doesnt always equate to the best overall player.
Just because Yakupov was the consensus no.1 doesn't really mean his ceiling is the highest. In fact, I think the whole idea of a guy's ceiling is a little bit ridiculous. Different players develop at different rates and at different times. Doesn't every player realistically have an unlimited ceiling until the time his career is over? Sure some guys are more skilled than others, and we can pretty safely assume a guy like Yakupov has a higher ceiling than a guy like Murray, but I don't think anyone would have said Datsyuk had the highest (or 2nd highest if you count Lecavalier as no.1) ceiling in the 98 draft 2 days, 2 months or even 2 years after it happened. Seems like a waste of time to me trying to predict where a guys potential will land him if everything goes perfectly. It rarely does. Players bust and players "overachieve".
Back to Yakupov: first off, the guy looks like an absolute beast of a goalscorer. I haven't seen a shot like that on a kid in a long time and he knows where and when to shoot it on net. That being said, he's small, rather soft, and up to this point prone to some poor decisions with the puck. There is a reason he has bounced around in the lineup. And it's not because he has been excelling in the puck management department. You can see he has obvious skill on the ice, but skill doesn't always mean he has the most potential.
I think he is going to be an awesome player in the league, but he has some serious deficiencies in his game he needs to work on first.
At this point in time, Galchenyuk looks like a better NHLer. I say that as a Habs fan in the most unbiased way possible. That doesn't mean it will always be the case. Where they end up 5, 10 or 15 years from now is anyone's guess.
Scouting is better than ever and so are the tools given to these individuals however I get so annoyed ho scouts are so teid up with how many points a player has. When you like at the stats in a full season Yakupov wasnt such a dominate minor league player.
You're right. I apologize. Yakupov is not soft. Perhaps undersized would have been a better word. He's not afraid of contact so to speak, but with his small stature he can't throw his body around like I'm sure he wants to, and is used to, which certainly limits his effectiveness in the physical department.
And FYI I used to live in Edmonton, so I follow the Oilers quite closely, they are near to my heart. We could definitely have the discussion without me being biased, I swear. But let's just leave it at they are both awesome players with awesome futures. As long as Yakupov keeps working on his game, that is.
No problem.
Often the bias is not intentional but rather comes from the fact that people tend to really see very little of most teams they don't follow. I grew up a die hard Canadien's fan in Edmonton. I watched every game I could including all of the games on the French channel. Even when I had season tickets for the Oilers in the WHA and first year or so of the NHL it was still Habs first for me. But that changed for good with the playoff series in '81. Still have a soft spot for the Habs though and I do follow them a fair bit.
As I said, until the lottery Galchenyuk was my guy. Once the Oilers won that switched to Yakupov. I had watched a lot of Sarnia the year before these kids got drafted, and it was clear they were both exceptional talents. Once Yakupov was off the board, I really wanted the Habsto get Galchenyuk, as I think he will be a tremendous player for many years. Like Yakupov he seems to be extremely dedicated to being the best he can be.
Scouting is better than ever and so are the tools given to these individuals however I get so annoyed ho scouts are so teid up with how many points a player has. When you like at the stats in a full season Yakupov wasnt such a dominate minor league player.
It is not the stats in his draft year that are the impressive part. He was hurt for much of the latter part of the year and the loss of Galchenyuk hurt as well. In his rookie year he scored 49 goals and had 101 points. If you watched him in that season you would have seen how dominant he could be.
I think Yakupov has the highest goal scoring roof of this draft, kid is a sniper no doubt (look at that goal vs. Chicago the other night, he's going to score a ton from that spot). His pro-rated goal scoring rate if this was a full season would be higher than Tavares or Stamkos' rookie years right now, so that has to count for something.
But he also has *a lot* to learn as far as I can see, seems to have picked up some bad habits from the KHL which will have to be ironed out of his game, as a result he's not getting as much play time as some of the other Oiler kids. He needs to simplify his game and not get so excited every time he touches the puck (lol).
It is fun to see his child-like enthusiasm for the game though.
Best all around player might be Galy though, who knows. The Oilers still lucked out getting Yakupov instead of Murray (not only is he injured now, but it takes a long time for 18 year old d-men to develop) IMO.
For the hell of it I looked up a few of the various ranking services (note to the mods... found all these ranks listed online (including on NHL.com so I'm not violating any copyrights here).
Here's 12 various ranking lists:
A Craig Button
B Bob Mackenzie (aggregate of ~10 NHL scouts)
C ISS
D MyNHLDraft
E Future Considerations
F NHL Central Scouting
G Redline Report
H Hockey Prospectus
I The Scouting Report
J The Hockey Writers
K The Hockey News
L McKeen’s Hockey
Yakupov
A 1
B 1
C 1
D 1
E 1
F 1 NA skater
G 1
H 1
I 1
J 1
K 1
L 1
Average: 1.0
Forsberg
A 7
B 4
C 2
D 5
E 5
F 1 Euro Skater
G 2
H 4
I 2
J 5
K 2
L 3
Ave: 3.5
Murray
A 13
B 3
C 3
D 2
E 3
F 2 NA Skater
G 4
H 8
I 4
J 3
K 4
L 4
Ave: 4.42
Galchenyuk
A 4
B 6
C 14
D 3
E 2
F 4 NA Skater
G 6
H 3
I 3
J 6
K 7
L 2
Ave: 5.0
Grigorenko
A 20
B 2
C 4
D 4
E 4
F 3 NA Skater
G 8
H 2
I 5
J 4
K 3
L 9
Ave: 5.67
Dumba
A 2
B 5
C 6
D 6
E 10
F 11 NA Skater
G 3
H 6
I 7
J 2
K 5
L 6
Ave: 5.75
Rielly
A 3
B 9
C 7
D 9
E 9
F 5 NA Skater
G 7
H 7
I 6
J 8
K 6
L 8
Ave: 7.0
Teravainen
A 5
B 10
C 8
D 8
E 8
F 2 Euro Skater
G 5
H 5
I 11
J 7
K 12
L 5
Ave: 7.17
Reinhart
A 6
B 8
C 10
D 7
E 7
F 10 NA Skater
G 9
H 15
I 10
J 9
K 8
L 7
Ave: 8.83
Trouba
A 12
B 7
C 5
D 10
E 6
F 9 NA Skater
G 11
H 12
I 9
J 13
K 9
L 10
Ave: 9.42
Notice a common trend with Yakupov compared to everyone else?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BROOKLYnKNIGHTS
I dont really care what spot your drafted at either because that doesnt always equate to the best overall player.
Correct, but being drafted 1st overall (if drafted as a BPA) equates to having the best chance of being the best player.
Last edited by 5RingsAndABeer: 02-27-2013 at 03:23 PM.
