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Team Gameplan & Strategy "The System"

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Old
02-25-2013, 10:52 AM
  #26
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How are they more built to be a dump and chase team when Callahan and Hagelin are the only two players who can retrieve a puck that has been dumped in with any regularity?

These are NHL players, they have the skills to play a different way.

Puck possession hockey thru the neutral zone and into the offensive zone is about the player transporting the puck making good reads on that particular play. Sure he also has to have some skating and passing skills, his team mates have to also read the play to give the transporter an out pass but all the same these are NHL players, it's not like they have not been exposed to a puck possession game plan at various points in their hockey lives.

If the transporter reads a play and there is nothing there, if the choices are a low percentage pass, or rush that may be a turnover than they should dump the puck. If the D is tired or it's time for a line change, they have to dump. However just dumping when other options are available is just ending any creativity that can come from that play.

How many times have the Rangers scored off a rush this year? All their offense comes from the walls or behind the net and only if they win the puck battle regaining possession. They are not even very good at cycling the puck to create havoc and get someone open ice.

I'd venture to guess that this mentality of playing a dump as the first option also has something to do with the power play looking about as uncreative as can be.

Gaining the zone with possession helps add options, does not mean they have to do it every time, does not mean they should even attempt it all the time and force a bad situation, but without it in the arsenal it makes the Rangers predictable and easy to coach against.

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02-25-2013, 11:47 AM
  #27
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I don't have a problem with dump and chase hockey, but it's pretty damn hard to play dump and chase when nobody is carrying enough speed through the neutral zone to actually beat a defensemen to the puck once it's dumped in.

You can't rely as heavily on stretch passes as we do, and then transition to dump and chase once you pass the red line. You sacrifice too much speed by circling your forwards in the neutral zone while they wait for a pass. Plus, what's the point of getting behind the opposing forwards with the stretch pass if you're going to forfeit your advantage by dumping the puck in?

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02-25-2013, 01:50 PM
  #28
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it all starts in the defensive zone. they are so slow taking the puck out because they collapse so far in the zone. then when they gain possession they skate it out 2mph and look around. by that time 2 players on the other team have closed in and the ranger has no choice but to dump it in because he was way too slow coming up ice.

if you watch good teams they get possession in their own end, give it to a forward who flies out of the zone and now they have space since they didn't give the other team plenty of time to get back into position.

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02-25-2013, 01:55 PM
  #29
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Does anyone else think the collapsing in our own zone does more harm than good?

I'm tired of other teams defensemen practically running a powerplay near the blue line because our wings aren't anywhere near them applying pressure. Leads to alot of point blank shots and opportunities for rebounds.

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02-25-2013, 02:20 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by gmerger37 View Post
Does anyone else think the collapsing in our own zone does more harm than good?

I'm tired of other teams defensemen practically running a powerplay near the blue line because our wings aren't anywhere near them applying pressure. Leads to alot of point blank shots and opportunities for rebounds.
Yes to your question. The collapsing plus the awful PP are destroying this team. It boggles my mind that they don't see it or fix it.

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02-25-2013, 03:39 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by gmerger37 View Post
Does anyone else think the collapsing in our own zone does more harm than good?

I'm tired of other teams defensemen practically running a powerplay near the blue line because our wings aren't anywhere near them applying pressure. Leads to alot of point blank shots and opportunities for rebounds.
Yes and it has been far more noticeable this season. It really does look like the other team is on a PP at times. It's so frustrating to watch.

Several goals have been scored off point shots generating big rebounds.

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02-25-2013, 03:52 PM
  #32
Kel Varnsen
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Originally Posted by htk30 View Post
There has been a dip in actual shot blocking this season, but the shot blocking mentality is still perceived or taught to be the main game plan. And I think that's where some of this loss of identity started: With the loss of guys who were some big blockers for us, we expected the new comers to fill those spots and it didn't happen. So why not just scratch the idea that shot blocking is going to be the team's forte? I don't mind if some of them excel at it and want to, but maybe we don't need 3 guys sliding around in front of Lundqvist/Biron in an attempt to block a shot (which, due to Ranger luck, inevitably deflects off one of those blockers ).

The icings aren't really as much of a problem as instinctively tossing the puck away. I don't know, the Rangers tend to look very anxious/nervous in their own zone when there's the slightest bit of pressure compared to other teams.

As far as oversimplifying shooting/passing, I don't understand? Getting shots through is and has been one of our biggest problems, they have to find a way to get some of those shots through traffic to some extent and then fight for the rebound/lose puck. Passes seem to get flubbed relatively often with this team (whether in the neutral zone or offensive zone) and I absolutely understand that not every single pass is going to be perfect and not every single pass recipient is going to perfectly catch every pass, but it just seems like the frequency should be a lot lower.
I think shot blocking is part of grinding. What I mean by this is when you're out there I think it would be awfully hard to think about grinding minus shot blocking. It's part of the mindset, the attitude. And I think it's what we need, it's what made us great last year. If we try to play like the blackhawks we'll just get beaten by the blackhawks (among others) who do that much better than we would be able to. However, last year showed the core of this team can grind out wins better than just about anyone.

With what I mean by you oversimplifying shooting/passing I just meant that I thought the conclusions you drew were too strong. I think the general point was right, but it didn't have as far reaching implications as you outlined. I thought you didn't leave much room for when we do those things right, and we have done them right at times this year. We're a bubble playoff team right now, not a bottom feeder.

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02-25-2013, 04:45 PM
  #33
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Aside from Nash, Hags and McD what other Rangers played during the lockout? You guys see a pattern here? Those 3 and Stralman have been the best players. Makes sense.

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02-25-2013, 07:20 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Cmox View Post
Aside from Nash, Hags and McD what other Rangers played during the lockout? You guys see a pattern here? Those 3 and Stralman have been the best players. Makes sense.
Stepan did, Miller and Kreider played in the AHL before being called up. I think that's it. I just don't understand how 3/4 of the team can look as disinterested as they do.

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02-25-2013, 07:37 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
I think shot blocking is part of grinding. What I mean by this is when you're out there I think it would be awfully hard to think about grinding minus shot blocking. It's part of the mindset, the attitude. And I think it's what we need, it's what made us great last year. If we try to play like the blackhawks we'll just get beaten by the blackhawks (among others) who do that much better than we would be able to. However, last year showed the core of this team can grind out wins better than just about anyone.

With what I mean by you oversimplifying shooting/passing I just meant that I thought the conclusions you drew were too strong. I think the general point was right, but it didn't have as far reaching implications as you outlined. I thought you didn't leave much room for when we do those things right, and we have done them right at times this year. We're a bubble playoff team right now, not a bottom feeder.
I agree with this partially. I think people see Richards, Gaborik, Nash and think we have the talent to play CHI style hockey. Richards is a shadow of himself right now, Nash is out, and Gabby doesn't look quite right either. Aside from them, we've got Step and Hagelin playing well and Callahan who is capable of getting nearly 30 goals in good circumstances. That's not a Chicago roster at all.

On the other hand, last year's team could grind out wins better than everyone, but there's been a lot of turnover. Too much to play that strategy well? That's the question.

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02-25-2013, 08:15 PM
  #36
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As for our "strategy" I am certainly not a fan. No reason we should have our top skill players playing a dump and chase style of play. Our power play is an absolute joke and for the life of me I can't figure out why NHL coaches struggle to solve the problem. The majority of the successful power plays run an umbrella with a left handed shot on the right side and a right handed shot on the left. Richards on the point is an absolute waste of time as he never makes the right play and when he shoots, he shoots muffins into the opposing penalty killers pads. Here is my quick 30 second creation that I think would help our power play at least get off the bottom of the league.


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Old
02-26-2013, 03:19 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
the way i see it we never really change anything...


DEFENSE LEADS TO OFFENSE

1. block shot
2. puck lands in your feet
3. opponent is the first guy on the puck
4. opponent stick-handles around you and 1 of 2 things happens
a. he shoots and has a strong scoring chance
b. another ranger leaves his man to block the shot and leaves a passing lane wide open
5. lundqvist has to make a quality save and get a whistle or the puck stays in the zone and this continues until somebody on the other team screws up and turns the puck over where we'll probably just end up giving it away to their defense in the neutral zone anyway or going offsides

THEN THE OFFENSE

1. dump the puck in, hagelin chases it
2. hagelin gets the puck gives it blindly to the center who is hopefully following up the play(if we're not making a change in which case he will give it to the other team on the tape so that he can change too)(if hagelin is not on the ice ignore the forecheck and simply change lines as usual)
3. entire team is already collapsed on the center who by now is in the slot
4. center makes a blind drop pass or backhands it to a defenseman who is not at the point and the other team jumps on the puck and turns the other way forcing mcdonagh (RIP) to make a mad dash halfway across the ice because del zotto just missed a hit and let his guy get past him on a 1 on 0

THEN THE POWERPLAY

1. %&@$
2. &%$#
3. $#@! %$#@ $#@
4. del zotto pinches in
5. del zotto shoots wide from in the crease or gets checked off the puck
6. other team gets on a 2v1 against richards
7. callahan comes out of nowhere to break up the pass
8. caught in the neutral zone for the other 1:30 of the PP
AWESOME POST!! :c lap:

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Old
02-26-2013, 03:37 PM
  #38
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In general, people see what they want to see regarding "the system," especially when the team is struggling. The system, as a whole, is not to dump and chase and it is not to collapse in front of their goal to block shots. These are contingency plans in case something goes wrong - and a whole lot has gone wrong lately.

Anyway, lets not act like Tortorella is stunting creativity. Thats a convenient excuse for a host of players struggling, but its just not reality.

A few posters have hit on the major problem that needs to be addressed. There is no consistent speed in the neutral zone and into the offensive zone. Whether the team carries it on the rush or dumps and chases, that element needs to be there and its just not. For me, thats just as much on the players as the coaching staff.

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Old
02-26-2013, 05:00 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
In general, people see what they want to see regarding "the system," especially when the team is struggling. The system, as a whole, is not to dump and chase and it is not to collapse in front of their goal to block shots. These are contingency plans in case something goes wrong - and a whole lot has gone wrong lately.

Anyway, lets not act like Tortorella is stunting creativity. Thats a convenient excuse for a host of players struggling, but its just not reality.

A few posters have hit on the major problem that needs to be addressed. There is no consistent speed in the neutral zone and into the offensive zone. Whether the team carries it on the rush or dumps and chases, that element needs to be there and its just not. For me, thats just as much on the players as the coaching staff.
when there are at most 3-4 out of 21 players on any given night doing what they're supposed to be doing that's on the coaching staff. we all know these players have the skills to perform, but NONE of them has performed to par on a nightly basis.

that's a problem. the coach is in charge of all the players. if the coach can't get these proven players to perform that's on his staff and the leadership of this team. if the system isn't working and guys aren't buying it, it's time to adjust the system. the issue is not the team right now. it's mental and strategy.

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Old
02-26-2013, 05:49 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
when there are at most 3-4 out of 21 players on any given night doing what they're supposed to be doing that's on the coaching staff. we all know these players have the skills to perform, but NONE of them has performed to par on a nightly basis.

that's a problem. the coach is in charge of all the players. if the coach can't get these proven players to perform that's on his staff and the leadership of this team. if the system isn't working and guys aren't buying it, it's time to adjust the system. the issue is not the team right now. it's mental and strategy.
I think you're scapegoating by blaming the coaching staff. If theres one thing where the fault lies mostly with the staff, its the powerplay. But the other parts of the game, including the system? No. If you buy into that, you're ignoring several outlying factors at play here which include no training camp, the high amount of turnover at forward, and players just simply off to a bad start.

Torts' system is not rocket science. In a nutshell, it revolves around playing hard, forechecking hard, winning battles, and playing responsible defensive hockey. These are tenants that shouldnt be altered or changed. Torts guided this team to its best finish in nearly 20 years. Hes put an end to the days where the inmates ran the asylum, and Im thankful for that. If players arent going to buy into his principles, they simply wont play, and thats fine with me.

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02-26-2013, 05:56 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Cliffy1814 View Post
Do teams employ a defensive system + Yes
Do teams have a forecheck system = Yes

Do teams really have an offensive "system"?
Offense is more about creativty and/or doing what you do best.

Why can't different lines play different sytles? Why can't the opposition partially determine the gameplan with regard to dumping or carrying.

I think we are over analyzing here. I certainly don't think Torts restricts creativty unless you think asking a player to be defnsively responsible is "restrictive".
Golden post here for those that think there's some kind of offensive "system" that is to be upheld at all times. Like he said, forechecking system? Yes. Having the third man in stay up high? Yes. The rest is left to creativity.

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Old
02-26-2013, 09:28 PM
  #42
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Golden post here for those that think there's some kind of offensive "system" that is to be upheld at all times. Like he said, forechecking system? Yes. Having the third man in stay up high? Yes. The rest is left to creativity.
But...how can we blame the coach for everything if he isn't controlling every single move every player makes all the time?

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02-26-2013, 09:37 PM
  #43
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My own feeling is that the impotence of the powerplay is just a subset of the way the team sees offence.

They don't flow creatively 5-on-5. I doubt that all of a sudden they turn into creative puck-maestro's just because they out-man the opposition.

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02-26-2013, 09:57 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I think you're scapegoating by blaming the coaching staff. If theres one thing where the fault lies mostly with the staff, its the powerplay. But the other parts of the game, including the system? No. If you buy into that, you're ignoring several outlying factors at play here which include no training camp, the high amount of turnover at forward, and players just simply off to a bad start.

Torts' system is not rocket science. In a nutshell, it revolves around playing hard, forechecking hard, winning battles, and playing responsible defensive hockey. These are tenants that shouldnt be altered or changed. Torts guided this team to its best finish in nearly 20 years. Hes put an end to the days where the inmates ran the asylum, and Im thankful for that. If players arent going to buy into his principles, they simply wont play, and thats fine with me.
That's a bit of a contradiction, don't you think? First talking about a lack of a full camp and some turnover, and then stating the system isn't rocket science (thereby implying it should be a somewhat easy and straightforward system to learn and adapt to).

From what I've seen so far this year, there are a dozen guys on the roster who aren't playing hard. Can't exactly sit half the team.

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Old
02-26-2013, 10:01 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Nac Mac Feegle View Post
That's a bit of a contradiction, don't you think? First talking about a lack of a full camp and some turnover, and then stating the system isn't rocket science (thereby implying it should be a somewhat easy and straightforward system to learn and adapt to).

From what I've seen so far this year, there are a dozen guys on the roster who aren't playing hard. Can't exactly sit half the team.
I dont think it is at all. The lack of full camp is more about conditioning, and the roster turnover is more of a chemistry issue. My point is that theres several factors at play here outside of the "system," and not all of them fall squarely on the coaching staff.

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Old
02-26-2013, 10:03 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by stan the caddy View Post
The "system" works. Everyone needs to play better.

It takes a lot for it to be going well.

**** this team. **** the system. **** the coach.

Im sick and tired and frankly exhausted from having to scrape night in and night out for the last, what, 5 years? Completely boring and ugly brand of hockey.

Last year was probably the most memorable year aside 1994 ive ever watched, but jesus tap-dancing christ was it ugly. Can never have it easy with this team.

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Old
02-26-2013, 10:10 PM
  #47
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At this point the problem seems there is no strategy. Got a bunch of players all playing with their heads up their ***** being extremely undiciplined.
Hardly anyone seem to care much at all at this point

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Old
02-27-2013, 04:19 PM
  #48
Kel Varnsen
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Originally Posted by Heyoooo View Post
It takes a lot for it to be going well.

**** this team. **** the system. **** the coach.

Im sick and tired and frankly exhausted from having to scrape night in and night out for the last, what, 5 years? Completely boring and ugly brand of hockey.

Last year was probably the most memorable year aside 1994 ive ever watched, but jesus tap-dancing christ was it ugly. Can never have it easy with this team.
Last year was boring to you? I think you just don't like hockey then.

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