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Flames sign O'Reilly to Offer Sheet

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Old
02-26-2013, 10:35 PM
  #101
RockLobster
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That would be extremely foolish. He's a very nice prospect but has proven nothing in the NHL yet. There have been very many players looking extremely good after their draft year only to not progress as well as expected. The Avs need a better return that that since they are giving up an accomplished core player.
I agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying. It can be quite maddening how much HF overvalues 1st round picks and prospects.

Prospects are nice, but there's ALWAYS the chance that they don't pan out

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02-26-2013, 10:43 PM
  #102
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God i wish, we'd probably get #3 and see him picked at #2.
Oh darn, I guess we'd have to settle for MacKinnon or Drouin then.

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02-26-2013, 10:44 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
That would be extremely foolish. He's a very nice prospect but has proven nothing in the NHL yet. There have been very many players looking extremely good after their draft year only to not progress as well as expected. The Avs need a better return that that since they are giving up an accomplished core player.
I remain convinced that we are never in a million years going to get what you think we will. I think, in the end, this is the return that we should expect.

*Edit... And I agree that prospects and picks are way way overvalued on here. But, I just think when this is all said and done, we are going to have to settle for a return just like that.

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02-26-2013, 10:51 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
I agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying. It can be quite maddening how much HF overvalues 1st round picks and prospects.

Prospects are nice, but there's ALWAYS the chance that they don't pan out
True.

Though with a player of O'Reilly's potential, you have to think the team is wanting to get a player/package back that is equally important to the team's long term success.

There's always a chance that the players, prospects, or picks don't pan out, no matter where they are in their development.

From what I've watched and read about Trouba I would okay with the risk involved. He could turn into a great defensive asset for our team.

More than anyone, I would want to keep O'Reilly, but that's just not seeming like it's going to happen.

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02-26-2013, 11:08 PM
  #105
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McGinn - Duchene - Parenteau
Landeskog - Stastny - Jones
Burmistrov - Little - Downie
McLeod - Mitchell -

Shame on me for forgetting John Mitchell.

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02-26-2013, 11:18 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Avalanche View Post
Scouts at tonight's game from Dater: Winnipeg, NY Rangers and Boston.
I don't really get these Boston rumors. Who would they be sending our way? I don't see it.

Hamilton? I seriously doubt it. Savard? No he's a mess. Bergeron? Not with only one year left after this. Krejci? I don't see it with only two more years, and the Avs having to pay him $5.25M. Seguin? Doubt the B's want to give him up, and the Avs surely don't want to pay him $5.75M long term after one good offensive season. Peverly? I hope not, and he's only got two more years. Horton? He's a UFA in the summer. Lucic, Chara? Not gonna happen. Seidenburg, Ferrence? They're good players but not for O'Reilly and they're gonna be UFA's soon too.

What would they be sending our way? A late 1st? That's not gonna cut it.

Only involvement I see from the B's is in a three way trade somehow, or a separate trade for a depth defender.

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02-26-2013, 11:19 PM
  #107
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A friend at work (Bruin's fan) suggested Seguin for O'Reilly + 2013 1st (top 5 protected). His reasoning being that Bergeron-O'Reilly down the middle is stronger than Bergeron-Krejci, and that the B's would then shop Krejci for a top 4 dman.

I was pretty torn, wondering what you guys think. As a fan of both teams, I agree with his logic on the Bruins side. For me, I think if the top 5 protection could be post-lottery, I take it.

Thoughts?

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Old
02-26-2013, 11:25 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
I don't really get these Boston rumors. Who would they be sending our way? I don't see it.

Hamilton? I seriously doubt it. Savard? No he's a mess. Bergeron? Not with only one year left after this. Krejci? I don't see it with only two more years, and the Avs having to pay him $5.25M. Seguin? Doubt the B's want to give him up, and the Avs surely don't want to pay him $5.75M long term after one good offensive season. Peverly? I hope not, and he's only got two more years. Horton? He's a UFA in the summer. Lucic, Chara? Not gonna happen. Seidenburg, Ferrence? They're good players but not for O'Reilly and they're gonna be UFA's soon too.

What would they be sending our way? A late 1st? That's not gonna cut it.

Only involvement I see from the B's is in a three way trade somehow, or a separate trade for a depth defender.
Could be the B's are looking at someone else? Weren't there rumors last year that they liked David Jones at the Trade Deadline? Though I doubt they'd be interested in him with that contract...that he just signed before hitting UFA.

But maybe they're looking at someone else.

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02-26-2013, 11:26 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Barklez View Post
A friend at work (Bruin's fan) suggested Seguin for O'Reilly + 2013 1st (top 5 protected). His reasoning being that Bergeron-O'Reilly down the middle is stronger than Bergeron-Krejci, and that the B's would then shop Krejci for a top 4 dman.

I was pretty torn, wondering what you guys think. As a fan of both teams, I agree with his logic on the Bruins side. For me, I think if the top 5 protection could be post-lottery, I take it.

Thoughts?
O'Reilly and a 1st for Seguin? No, not unless the B's are adding something else impressive with Seguin.

Besides if they Avs are principally against giving up a big second contract with Duchene and O'Reilly, they're not taking on Seguin's long term deal at $5.75M with only one offensive season. His highest point total matches Duchene's.

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02-26-2013, 11:26 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barklez View Post
A friend at work (Bruin's fan) suggested Seguin for O'Reilly + 2013 1st (top 5 protected). His reasoning being that Bergeron-O'Reilly down the middle is stronger than Bergeron-Krejci, and that the B's would then shop Krejci for a top 4 dman.

I was pretty torn, wondering what you guys think. As a fan of both teams, I agree with his logic on the Bruins side. For me, I think if the top 5 protection could be post-lottery, I take it.

Thoughts?
Top-5 protected pick. That would be a tough call to make. Haven't watched Seguin much this year.

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02-26-2013, 11:29 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
Could be the B's are looking at someone else? Weren't there rumors last year that they liked David Jones at the Trade Deadline? Though I doubt they'd be interested in him with that contract...that he just signed before hitting UFA.

But maybe they're looking at someone else.
Maybe. That's the only way I see a Bruins trade happening.

Maybe an Ottawa trade involving Silfverberg, and then a separate trade with Boston for Jones?

BTW, I'm usually with you on the he just signed instead of becoming a UFA argument. I pointed that out a lot in regards to him and O'Brien and other guys earlier in the year. I get the sense though, that maybe a lot of those things may be out the window at this point.

Especially with O'Brien, since he's fallen out of favor. He may welcome a trade. It wouldn't really be the best PR among players to trade Jones, but the Avs might be able to sell it like they're changing direction with the team given the poor season, and the O'Reilly situation.

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Old
02-26-2013, 11:32 PM
  #112
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What would we even get for Jones at this point?

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Old
02-26-2013, 11:34 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
Could be the B's are looking at someone else? Weren't there rumors last year that they liked David Jones at the Trade Deadline? Though I doubt they'd be interested in him with that contract...that he just signed before hitting UFA.

But maybe they're looking at someone else.
That was a rumor by The Fourth Period if I remember correctly.

I can't imagine them wanting him now, but with Nathan Horton's contract expiring, you never know.

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Old
02-26-2013, 11:49 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
O'Reilly and a 1st for Seguin? No, not unless the B's are adding something else impressive with Seguin.

Besides if they Avs are principally against giving up a big second contract with Duchene and O'Reilly, they're not taking on Seguin's long term deal at $5.75M with only one offensive season. His highest point total matches Duchene's.
This I disagree with. I think its obvious the Avs have taken a stance against giving out those big second contracts, but I don't think they would be adverse to taking one on. Seguin's one offensive season was in his second season in the league. He's on the same point trajectory as Duchene was after his second year, and I think we would all be happy to have Duchene signed for 5.75 long term a year and a half from now.

IMO, the 1st is steep on our end, but I would rather add to O'Reilly to get back someone who, in my opinion, is going to be a premier player in this league, than to get back two lesser pieces.

For the record, I'm holding out hope for Little and Trouba, but I don't think I could say no to Seguin on Duchene's wing.

ETA: And do people really think that we should be expecting Seguin + something else "impressive" for O'Reilly and a top-5 protected pick? I like O'Reilly as much as the next guy, but I think that's setting our expectations a little too high.

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02-27-2013, 12:02 AM
  #115
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What would we even get for Jones at this point?
Likely a high salary player who's underperforming.

Though both were towards the end of their contracts, the trade between Anaheim-Toronto involving Jason Blake and current-Av J.S. Giguere is a recent example.

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02-27-2013, 12:14 AM
  #116
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This I disagree with. I think its obvious the Avs have taken a stance against giving out those big second contracts, but I don't think they would be adverse to taking one on. Seguin's one offensive season was in his second season in the league. He's on the same point trajectory as Duchene was after his second year, and I think we would all be happy to have Duchene signed for 5.75 long term a year and a half from now.

IMO, the 1st is steep on our end, but I would rather add to O'Reilly to get back someone who, in my opinion, is going to be a premier player in this league, than to get back two lesser pieces.

For the record, I'm holding out hope for Little and Trouba, but I don't think I could say no to Seguin on Duchene's wing.

ETA: And do people really think that we should be expecting Seguin + something else "impressive" for O'Reilly and a top-5 protected pick? I like O'Reilly as much as the next guy, but I think that's setting our expectations a little too high.
I just don't see the Avs doing this. Whether Seguin is worth it or not, it would totally contradict what they've been standing for. How can they trade O'Reilly for Seguin, when he's got a bigger contract than either of their demands, and only one good season that matches Duchene? They'd look like complete hypocrites.

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02-27-2013, 12:35 AM
  #117
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Have a missed something with Seguin? I would love him on this team. Kid is a stud.

A pick in the 6-10 range is unlikely to ever be as good as Seguin. And O'Reilly doesn't have his upside; Seguin is the better player.

Would make that deal without ever thinking about it again.

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02-27-2013, 12:38 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Steve Varmalov View Post
Have a missed something with Seguin? I would love him on this team. Kid is a stud.

A pick in the 6-10 range is unlikely to ever be as good as Seguin. And O'Reilly doesn't have his upside; Seguin is the better player.

Would make that deal without ever thinking about it again.
I think the concerns are salary, not the player in question. If they're being so strict when it comes to handing out $$$ to young players, then it makes no sense for them to trade for a player making that much (no matter how good he is) when they could just keep O'Reilly. Yes, Seguin is the better player...but he'll also be more expensive, even with O'Reilly's reported demands.

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02-27-2013, 12:48 AM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
I think the concerns are salary, not the player in question. If they're being so strict when it comes to handing out $$$ to young players, then it makes no sense for them to trade for a player making that much (no matter how good he is) when they could just keep O'Reilly. Yes, Seguin is the better player...but he'll also be more expensive, even with O'Reilly's reported demands.
Honestly it doesn't matter, the Bs aren't moving Seguin

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02-27-2013, 12:49 AM
  #120
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Honestly it doesn't matter, the Bs aren't moving Seguin
This, no point even discussing it.

And to be honest, if that trade were proposed (ROR+1st for Seguin) it would be done tomorrow.

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02-27-2013, 12:50 AM
  #121
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Ryan O'Reilly, Duncan Siemens, Stefan Elliott, Michael Sgarbossa, Ryan O'Byrne, 2013 2nd Round Pick and 2014 1st Round Pick to Florida for Dmitry Kulikov, Shawn Matthias, and 2013 1st Round Pick

Avs win lottery

Florida finishes with 3rd overall pick

Buy out David Jones and Greg Zanon

Avs draft Jonathan Drouin and Seth Jones

Drouin/Duchene/Parenteau
Landeskog/Stastny/McGinn
Matthias/Mitchell/Downie
McLeod/Olver/Bordeleau

Kulikov/Johnson
Wilson/Jones
Hejda/Barrie

Varlamov
Giguere

That was my dream last night about the Ryan O'Reilly situation and I woke up angry knowing that something like that only happens in EA Sports, which I do not own

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02-27-2013, 12:54 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Av-merican View Post
I think the concerns are salary, not the player in question. If they're being so strict when it comes to handing out $$$ to young players, then it makes no sense for them to trade for a player making that much (no matter how good he is) when they could just keep O'Reilly. Yes, Seguin is the better player...but he'll also be more expensive, even with O'Reilly's reported demands.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Varmalov View Post
Honestly it doesn't matter, the Bs aren't moving Seguin
Yea, both of these were kind of my initial points. B's wouldn't want to move him, and the Avs wouldn't bring in that contract after playing hardball with Duchene and O'Reilly.

Seguin living up to his contract has almost nothing to do with it.

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02-27-2013, 12:58 AM
  #123
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snip
I know your scenario isn't meant to be real but I'd want Goc or Howden coming back with Kulikov in a trade for O'reilly.

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02-27-2013, 02:29 AM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Yea, both of these were kind of my initial points. B's wouldn't want to move him, and the Avs wouldn't bring in that contract after playing hardball with Duchene and O'Reilly.

Seguin living up to his contract has almost nothing to do with it.
I doubt it's Seguin, but on the other hand if Avs management is thinking at all about saving this season they could be dangling cap certainty with Jones + something like a 2nd round pick for Horton.

Honestly, for the chance to see if it works with Horton & Stastny and to get rid of Jones. I would give up the second round pick.

We wouldn't be committed beyond this season, but basically Horton is what we want Jones to be. Who knows it could spark some life back into Stastny as well. It's just a shot in the dark but I can hope anyways...

That top six would be sick

Landeskog - Stastny - Horton

McGinn - Duchene - Parenteau

Flip O'Reilly for Yandle and we have filled the two biggest holes in our roster.

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02-27-2013, 08:11 AM
  #125
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Looking at the trades Boston have made lately, I wouldn't be surprised if they are scouting Kobasew for a minor trade.

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