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02-26-2013, 11:15 PM
  #51
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Almost to the point that I hope he gets traded out of this place.

Rangers organization, and its fans as a whole, have zero appreciation for skilled players.

Trade him for some garbage, watch him blossom somewhere else, and watch the current naysayers whine that we can't develop skilled forwards.

Same organization that ran Amonte, Kovalev, Savard out of town. And if you want to include defensemen, Zubov.

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02-26-2013, 11:23 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Rangers organization, and its fans as a whole, have zero appreciation for skilled players.
The fan base has a "ready - aim - fire"-mentality, without the "ready - aim"-part.

I believe Kreider is trying to play the way Tortorella wants him to play, which may not be the way Kreider is meant to be played. You don't see creativity on the ice? Just dump and chase over and over again? That's on the coach. I sincerely believe every time Kreider is out there, he is too afraid of Tortorella's retribution of any possible mistake he might or might not do at any given time.

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02-26-2013, 11:45 PM
  #53
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The fan base has a "ready - aim - fire"-mentality, without the "ready - aim"-part.

I believe Kreider is trying to play the way Tortorella wants him to play, which may not be the way Kreider is meant to be played. You don't see creativity on the ice? Just dump and chase over and over again? That's on the coach. I sincerely believe every time Kreider is out there, he is too afraid of Tortorella's retribution of any possible mistake he might or might not do at any given time.
You know I'm not an NHL coach. I'm at the beginning stages of my own coaching career. So I don't like to question other coaches' systems.

But after tonight. Looking back at this losing streak of pathetic hockey...

This is not the same roster as last year. The identity is gone. Its on the coach to figure out what works with the players he has. Tortorella has not been able to do that. He does not know how to properly utilize this roster.

Looking at the roster, there is NO excuse for such poor results.

Elite goaltending.
Elite defense corp.
Nash, Richards, Gaborik
And a solid supporting cast.

What is the issue??? Why can't this coaching staff get more from these players?

Still want Gaborik and Richards gone. But that's another discussion entirely.

What's the solution???

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02-26-2013, 11:51 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
Del Zotto got sent down for a long period of time, which is where Kreider would be if the team weren't missing Nash and Asham.

I'd guess Torts doesn't like the way Kreider has been playing and I don't blame him. For a guy who is so fast and so strong, I rarely if ever see him beat anybody with his speed or strength. He looks scared out there. I don't care if the coach goes hard on him, he needs to man up and play the game the best he can. People are making a ton of excuses for this guy because they love to hate the coach.
Agreed. Kreider looks like a lost little puppy out there. Miller plays a simple game and at least is using his speed to forecheck. Having Miller up here is not hurting his development, Kreider needs to go back to Hartford asap.

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02-27-2013, 12:28 AM
  #55
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The only people who want Kreider benched or sent back to Hartford, are the people who believes this **** system of Tortorella's actually works.

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02-27-2013, 12:59 AM
  #56
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???====B.R.--Gaborik

Kreider-Miller-Callahan

Pyatt-Stepan-Thomas

Hagelin-Boyle-Ferriero



Speed on 4 lines and size on all but on the Stepan line which should be enough to land about 10-15 goals from each of the forwards on lines `1-3

Hagelin will boost the production of Ferriero and Boyle will have value in the last stretch of the season/playoffs

The team had a 3 game win streak after JTmiller and Kreider-Callahan were set up as a line and Bickell+Boyle were benched

Reserves include Asham-Mashinter-Halpern-Powe

so somebody could be traded to boost the anemic shot from the Right point

maybe

a PP specialist ala Bergeron

Yannick Weber

or C.Franson are both cheap 3rd pair options that will boost Stralman/Girardi

The team needs something and both Z.Redmond(out for season with leg injury)

and Erik Johnson(head injury) are out indefinitely.

Something massive is needed as tough guy defensive defenders are in the system

McIlrath/Sauer/Noreau all are solid 3 pair guys and McIlrath might eventually be an ok
#4/5 type of defender long term BUT the window to win a cup is starting to close much the way it closed on Calgary and Ottawa/ Vancouver etc....

Size is nice but its smarts that are needed.

In the playoffs the expectations from the coaching staff was simple...Chris would play a hard hitting north south vertical game w/ grit and speed and shoot AS MUCH as Possible.

This made Richards and Gaborik even more dangerous.

Right now both Richards and Gaborik look average at best when they're not up against 3rd pair blueliners.

Play Kreider in a more important role and let him learn how to make something happen.

Then bite the bullet and flip MDZ + a minor leaguer(fasth/Bourque/etc..._)

for --o'REILLY ...he will play a very similar role to callahan


imagine


Nash----Richards---Palmieri Staal-Girardi

Kreider--O-Reilly--Gaborik McDonagh-Stralman

pyatt-Miller-Callahan Eminger-Gilroy(ok this isn't optimal but Gilroy is ok

Hagelin-Boyle-Ferriero (maybe trade a package + pick for Franson for 2nd PP)

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02-27-2013, 01:33 AM
  #57
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He can't realllllyyy be inconsistent because he hasn't been given enough playing time to really go one way or the other. He's out there for a short while, then benched at the first poor decision he makes. I say give him top 6 minutes and keep the minutes coming until you can decide whether or not he's ready to compete at this level.

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02-27-2013, 02:02 AM
  #58
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The only players who deserve 4mins on this team are bums like Bickel and Mashinter. I have no idea what Torts is thinking playing one of our top prospects these minutes.. send him down or play him. Jesus

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02-27-2013, 03:09 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by toewsintangibles View Post
The only players who deserve 4mins on this team are bums like Bickel and Mashinter. I have no idea what Torts is thinking playing one of our top prospects these minutes.. send him down or play him. Jesus
torts is afraid that playing him big minutes and having him cause turnovers or some crap like that is going to tank his confidence any more than benching him for 55:30 of a game where his offensive skills are needed. logically you'd play to a player's strengths and put him out in situations where the offense is needed. torts doesn't do that. he doesn't want to give kreider time to play and learn up here. he thinks it'll take too long and his precious season will be wasted... but apparently we're losing games anyway. it's time to let the kids play.

this is the same reason that our powerplay doesn't work. tortorella basically said str8 up that he doesn't know anything about his players that they don't tell him flat out. he didn't know about boyle playing wing or d or some crap like that or bickel playing forward. didn't know del zotto didn't know how to play defense either apparently. he has no idea how to handle skill kids and this is why we don't develop average top 6 in house. just grinders.

hurt the development of dubinsky, anisimov, del zotto, and stepan... kreider coming down the same path. going to probably end up ruining thomas' future in the league just like zucc's because he doesn't know how to utilize anybody in a game that isn't dump, chase, grind, mash, jam, block shots 24/7. if a guy picks a loose puck up that wasn't obtained through 'hard work' and grinding then he hates them.

/endrant

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02-27-2013, 03:36 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killem Dafoe View Post
He can't realllllyyy be inconsistent because he hasn't been given enough playing time to really go one way or the other. He's out there for a short while, then benched at the first poor decision he makes. I say give him top 6 minutes and keep the minutes coming until you can decide whether or not he's ready to compete at this level.
Funny, isn't it?

A rookie will get benched and/or sent back down to the minors after a poor decision - yet we have to give the "system" virtually a full training camp + season before it can be critiqued or changed in any way.

And, of course, other favored sons can do no wrong on the ice.

I can see why young guys are getting confused and indecisive.

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02-27-2013, 03:55 AM
  #61
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He's a rookie. He'll have ups and downs. If we expected him to walk in as a 20/20 guy, that's our fault, but it's clear he's not yet.

Maybe Torts want's him practicing with the big club. Maybe they're hoping he'll put it together. But he's been bad. He'll be a good player, but right now, he's really bad.

Gotta do something about that.

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02-27-2013, 04:06 AM
  #62
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Kreider needs to play. When Nash gets back,send Kreider down so he can play. That was the original plan before Nash got hurt.

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02-27-2013, 05:48 AM
  #63
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CK SKILL SET is predicated upon him having the puck . He is not a skill player but rather a big strong fast player with a good shot . Everything else he does below average . He is a work in progress and right now the game at this level is too fast and he never has the puck . Without the puck he is looking lost . Not sure anyone to blame . It's going to happen or it isn't

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02-27-2013, 05:49 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Killem Dafoe View Post
He can't realllllyyy be inconsistent because he hasn't been given enough playing time to really go one way or the other. He's out there for a short while, then benched at the first poor decision he makes. I say give him top 6 minutes and keep the minutes coming until you can decide whether or not he's ready to compete at this level.
Or he could do something good with the minutes given to him, instead of looking completely lost. But I guess Kreider should just be handed minutes, not earn them like the rest of the team.

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02-27-2013, 05:59 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Sticky Fingers View Post
Or he could do something good with the minutes given to him, instead of looking completely lost. But I guess Kreider should just be handed minutes, not earn them like the rest of the team.
Yeah, because Richards really earned those 20 minutes yesterday.

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02-27-2013, 06:06 AM
  #66
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Yeah, because Richards really earned those 20 minutes yesterday.
So you think that Kreider should play 1C?

Or in what way are they competing for a spot? Richards sucks, he is one of the worst on the team right now, but there is no real competition for his spot, and the fact that he has been top 10isch center in the leauge for x years might have something to do with him getting ice time.

What have CK got, except for a handfull of goals in the PO last year? Nothing, except from a promising future. Kreider haven't been ready this season, plain and simple, he need to be when given the chance.

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02-27-2013, 06:16 AM
  #67
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People keep saying he is playing with "no sense of urgency".

He has never been a lazy player and has consistently been recognized as one of the hardest workers at practice and in the gym. Yet now at the NHL he gets complacent and lazy?

The answer to me is clear as day. He is not reacting to the game, he is overthinking every single cut he makes on the ice. Because if he ****s up once he is done for the game. It's hard to play naturally with that kind of weight hanging over you. Which is exactly why he should be sent down instead of continuing to have his head ****ed with.

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02-27-2013, 06:17 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Every game, stuff pops up that he should be getting more minutes despite the mistakes. Yet, with limited minutes, the mistakes continue to come.

So, why are we giving Kreider more minutes when he cant handle the few hes getting?
So a coach is supposed to help a player work through his issues, teach and develop...we are always told that when the big club needs a call up they don't ask for a specific player they are sent the player who deserves it.

Lots of guys on this team make mistakes but not everyone gets nailed to the bench. Boyle took a lazy penalty last night didn't get nailed to the bench.

Kreider has not looked the same since the injury...but the question is what is the coaching staff doing to help him maximize his talent.

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02-27-2013, 06:21 AM
  #69
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If I've got this straight, "young players" are immune from being held accountable for their mistakes, simply because they're young.
I didn't see anyone post that but most of us realize that's part of a young players development process...and it's the job of the coaching staff to help them work through and correct them.

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02-27-2013, 06:22 AM
  #70
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Not defending him, because he has been extremely inconsistent so far this season. He clearly doesnt have the same adrenalin coursing through his veins like he did during last years playoffs, and hes still developing. For a guy whose projected to be a top 6 guy, with a lot of raw talent playing him on the fourth line with guys like Halpern and Mashinter who are 100% bottom six players is doing Kreider ABSOLUTELY no good, then benching him after taking a stupid penalty, and a lazy one doesnt help his confidence one bit.

I know torts has his dog house, and for a guy thats a 4th liner its understandable to bench them after taking stupid penalty because they ideally shouldnt play more then 10 minutes or so, but for a guy thats still developing like Kreider it does no good.

If hes going to have such a short leash send him down, and let him play the game. You can only beat a guy down so much until he just checks out. He needs to be sent down to develop, guys like dubi, anisimov, callahan all played full seasons in the AHL and it did them worlds of good, developing Kreider by playing him for 10 minutes with grinders is going to do nothing but stunt his growth.
He commits a stupid and lazy penalty and you're upset he got benched? Let's renegotiate his contract and double it, instead.

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02-27-2013, 06:24 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Sticky Fingers View Post
So you think that Kreider should play 1C?

Or in what way are they competing for a spot? Richards sucks, he is one of the worst on the team right now, but there is no real competition for his spot, and the fact that he has been top 10isch center in the leauge for x years might have something to do with him getting ice time.

What have CK got, except for a handfull of goals in the PO last year? Nothing, except from a promising future. Kreider haven't been ready this season, plain and simple, he need to be when given the chance.
Did Gaborik earn his 20 minutes? Callahan and Stepan played 26 minutes each. That's too much for forwards. JT miller really earned his 11 minutes, am I right?

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02-27-2013, 06:25 AM
  #72
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How about miller and his lazy penalty or his lazy defense on that second goal
That was bs call on Miller...

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02-27-2013, 06:25 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Almost to the point that I hope he gets traded out of this place.

Rangers organization, and its fans as a whole, have zero appreciation for skilled players.

Trade him for some garbage, watch him blossom somewhere else, and watch the current naysayers whine that we can't develop skilled forwards.

Same organization that ran Amonte, Kovalev, Savard out of town. And if you want to include defensemen, Zubov.
Savard was the only one of those run out of town and that was because of personality issues.

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02-27-2013, 06:45 AM
  #74
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That was bs call on Miller...
JT had a good game . He had the puck every short he was on . CK I want to succeed badly but he never ever has the puck on his stick and can make a play

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02-27-2013, 06:48 AM
  #75
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The only people who want Kreider benched or sent back to Hartford, are the people who believes this **** system of Tortorella's actually works.
and the people that believe it doesn't work and would rather Chris get 20 minutes a game with the Whale.

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