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GAME 20: Stars vs Blue Jackets | 7pm ET

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Old
02-27-2013, 07:53 AM
  #176
Double-Shift Lassé
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Quick hitters:

Good/improved games from Dorsett, Nikitin, Johansen, Foligno (don't know if there's a "put it all together" chance for Nick or if this is what he is).

Poor games from Bobrovsky (never got his head back in the game after the 3rd goal against, looked like he was second-guessing himself), Aucoin, Moore, Umberger, Calvert.

Maybe not another step forward as far as "playing the right way" or whatever-you-want-to-call-it, but I don't feel it was a step backward, either. Losing sucks.

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02-27-2013, 07:57 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
I'm not really a Richards fan to begin with, but he is far better, even with that "mistake" last night, than the previous coach. If the front office staff feels he needs replaced he will be.
Agreed. Despite some blunders, the coach/staff isn't hurting the team. We're essentially in an "interim" situation now anyway, so why create another unless the coach is hurting the team. If the style of play (if not the level) we've seen the past few weeks in any indication, they're doing something right.

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You can hear the frustration from the players. It will be interesting to see how that frustration is channeled. At some point some of the players will go over to "This shiz ain't working". I wonder how close the locker room will be at that point.
Agree about the frustration. Don't know about the rest of the analysis - it's possible I guess. They just want to win.

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02-27-2013, 08:15 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
The four highest point totals in CBJ history were on Howson's watch, including the playoff year.

The 65 points last year was the second-highest 30th-place total since 2000-01. The highest was 2007-08, when Tampa and Los Angeles both had 71 points.

Even if you include last year, the average of Howson's team point totals is higher than any season ever MacLean had at all.
Huh? Why are we here again? I would hope that a team in the second half of a decade (6 seasons actually in the first "half") offers improvement over the expansion team in the first half of a decade of their existence, especially after being handed 3 point games to increase overall point totals.

Keep in mind that during Howson tenure, the Jackets only exceeded the win total of the 2005/6 Jackets once (35 wins). We won 29 games in the 2002/3 season, so I guess we regressed back to a third year expansion team? Hell we won 28 games in our expansion year.

We consistently won 29-34 games under Howson during his tenure, with one season of actually winning 41 games. Let's just stop this now, those are horrible stats. I'm not sure you can use point totals to justify your position that Howson was a better GM than Dougie. You'll need more subjective measures. This year is trending to, prorated, our worst seasons ever I think. 54 points over an 80 game season. I think our previous low was 57 in 82.


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02-27-2013, 08:35 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
Agree about the frustration. Don't know about the rest of the analysis - it's possible I guess. They just want to win.
Don't know either. But generally, at some point, the players lose faith in the coaching staff. Human nature I guess, you have to see results for the work you are putting in to have confidence in what you are doing. There is only so many time the coaching staff can say "You need to do this". For the complaining about thinking we are Detroit and about the cross ice passing, I'm pretty sure that is what happened on the Atkinson goal. I think most of our chances we've given up have been in transition and not as many as the coaching staff would like everyone to believe. We have a real issue on the forecheck in the offensive zone generating scoring chances with any consistency.

Sure I suppose they could just go with "We just can't score" and give up that way too.

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02-27-2013, 09:03 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by blahblah View Post
Don't know either. But generally, at some point, the players lose faith in the coaching staff. Human nature I guess, you have to see results for the work you are putting in to have confidence in what you are doing.
True this. Only so long one will place the blame on oneself. (And no, this is not a passive aggressive attack on player accountability.)

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02-27-2013, 09:08 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Iron Balls McGinty View Post
Here is my summary.

Dallas was 1-15-2 in their last 18 on the 2nd night of a back to back. They played their backup goalie. They traded their leading scorer earlier today.

The CBJ still could not beat them.

This team has real talent issues. Effort only takes you so far.
Their starter was hurt (Lehtonen)

CBJ are a skeleton crew right now and still managed to score 4 goals and come back from 1 goal deficits 4 times.

I don't know, but to me, that seems like a pretty encouraging thing.

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02-27-2013, 09:10 AM
  #182
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Well, as is so often the case with this team, they find a way to lose. Chicago scores 1 goal, and we can't score and lose 1-0. We score 4 goals, but Bob gives up 5, and yet another 1 goal loss.

We just seem to be the team that cannot find a way to beat a back-up goalie. Doesn't seem to matter how good they may be, we find a way to lose to them. It is uncanny.

I thought the game last night was pretty helter-skelter, but it was an entertaining game with the 9 goals being scored. Just wish Bob had played better, and had taken away a few of those 5 Dallas goals.

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02-27-2013, 09:29 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by major major View Post
Also, no one should ever cite the Ottawa Senators and claim that teams should be expected to win despite missing their best players. The fact that Paul Maclean's Senators are still winning is damn near miraculous, and definitely not the norm but the exception to it.
Ok, I wont cite the Sens then haha, but plenty of more examples!!

Flyers last year had the 2nd most man games lost to injury with close to 400 games lost! That's an incredible amount. Result? 103 whopping points and a 5 seed.

Penguins had over 300 man games lost to injury last year, 3rd highest in league. Result? 108 points.

Also, the Pens lost some guy by the name of Sidney Crosby, and some other guy named Kris Letang. And this year have lost Malkin! All 3 better than anyone on this CBJ roster. No excuses.

Lets use a Western Conference team example for good measure. The Blues last year had Top 10 most man games lost to injury in the NHL. Result? 2nd best record in ALL of the NHL!

I get that injuries play a factor into a season. Im realistic, but at the same time every team deals with this and many teams have more severe injuries. Just don't want to use it as a crutch.

My point is 1) No more excuses. Tired of it. 2) The former regime didn't build up enough depth to adequately handle injuries.

Lastly, I didn't expect this team to win the Cup or even contend for the playoffs. What I do expect is no excuses and a hard working team every night, and the success of developing young players, while building for the future. Not too much to ask. I am a reasonable guy. Oh, and one more thing. When you get to this level of hockey, hard work and effort should be expected not praised. Time to take the kid gloves off.


Last edited by MattTheMask: 02-27-2013 at 09:40 AM.
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02-27-2013, 09:34 AM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattTheMask View Post
The former regime didn't build up enough depth to adequately handle injuries.
Not quite right, I don't think. The depth is there, it's just that the players being replaced aren't that much better.

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02-27-2013, 06:38 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by OldGoaltender View Post
This. However, my only problem with this is Richards. He has no real choice on defense but play the kids but on offense he still is reluctant to play certain players. Joey for instance saw little ice time because of Richards desire for grinders.

We won't know what we have if the kids can't show us what they can do.
And during the first two periods, Joey was stuck on the 4th line with Gilles and Boll. That's good for ANYONE'S plus/minus!

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02-27-2013, 06:55 PM
  #186
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RyJo bounced all around, he at one point was on PP with Calvert and Cam, most of the game I saw him with Foligno and Calvert, and then with Boll and Gilles...most of the latter was after Brass went out and line shifting was happening...

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02-27-2013, 07:04 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fro View Post
RyJo bounced all around, he at one point was on PP with Calvert and Cam, most of the game I saw him with Foligno and Calvert, and then with Boll and Gilles...most of the latter was after Brass went out and line shifting was happening...
Bottomline Johansen has to start scoring... if we had two or three year Stamkos he would score even on the worst team in the league...

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02-27-2013, 07:06 PM
  #188
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Bottomline Johansen has to start scoring... if we had two or three year Stamkos he would score even on the worst team in the league...
i don't disagree, but i watched him put the puck perfectly on tape a few times last night that the shots didn't get buried...yes he has to start producing, but he's gotta get some help out there

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02-27-2013, 07:08 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
Not quite right, I don't think. The depth is there, it's just that the players being replaced aren't that much better.
Considering how well Springfield is doing, there is depth. But there's a different between plugging in a rookie like Collins, Goloubef, Johansen or JAM to fill holes vs try to have them carry the team.

Putting Joey on the 1st line sounds fine, but when he has to battle against a shut-down line, it's not going to work. But having linemakes like Gilles and Boll with hands of concrete doesn't help either.

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02-27-2013, 07:09 PM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
Not quite right, I don't think. The depth is there, it's just that the players being replaced aren't that much better.
The depth is there after getting essentially 4 pieces for rick Nash. All that's missing is one or two elite players and this team could at least win some games. This team has come soo close to winning a lot of games this year. But this team does not know how to put the puck in the net. We have all the complimentary pieces, we just need some luck in the lottery.

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02-27-2013, 07:15 PM
  #191
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Two or three year Stamkos had quite a cast around him to alleviate the pressure.

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02-27-2013, 07:18 PM
  #192
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Quote:
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Two or three year Stamkos had quite a cast around him to alleviate the pressure.
Yeah. That was a brutal comparison.

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02-27-2013, 07:26 PM
  #193
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Yeah. That was a brutal comparison.
Yeah, Nash in his second year would be just as brutal I suppose.. Johansen either has talent or he doesn’t... So far I'm not seeing enough to justify his draft status.

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02-27-2013, 07:33 PM
  #194
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Yeah, Nash in his second year would be just as brutal I suppose.. Johansen either has talent or he doesn’t... So far I'm not seeing enough to justify his draft status.
Luckily, we don't have to decide now whether he will be good or bad.

Let the kid develop. Other than scoring, I'm finding myself liking a lot of his game this season versus last. He's getting decent chances, looks good with the puck, wins draws, starting to use his body...I don't think he needs to be a 20 goal scorer in year 2 to be labeled a "success"

I'll never understand the 'hurry' with guys like this. He's 20 for goodness sakes.

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02-27-2013, 07:52 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Fro View Post
i don't disagree, but i watched him put the puck perfectly on tape a few times last night that the shots didn't get buried...yes he has to start producing, but he's gotta get some help out there
Did you see who was on his line the first two periods? Colton Gilles and Jared Boll.

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02-27-2013, 08:08 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by leesmith View Post
Did you see who was on his line the first two periods? Colton Gilles and Jared Boll.
as i said above, i saw him more with Foligno and Calvert...he bounced around...

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02-27-2013, 08:39 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
The four highest point totals in CBJ history were on Howson's watch, including the playoff year.

The 65 points last year was the second-highest 30th-place total since 2000-01. The highest was 2007-08, when Tampa and Los Angeles both had 71 points.

Even if you include last year, the average of Howson's team point totals is higher than any season ever MacLean had at all.
They both sucked; the team sucked and still does. It is a collective fault of all involved, from ownership to management and to some extent the players. :


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02-27-2013, 08:50 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by slightlystewpid420 View Post
The depth is there after getting essentially 4 pieces for rick Nash. All that's missing is one or two elite players and this team could at least win some games. This team has come soo close to winning a lot of games this year. But this team does not know how to put the puck in the net. We have all the complimentary pieces, we just need some luck in the lottery.
You are right on a lot of points here. While the record does not reflect it, I think we are better positioned now than a year ago. We have some pieces for a second line, many good third liners so I think we basically upgraded by one line. What we don't have are top line players and in the end, you still have to outscore the other team. This group can't do that. That Dorsett has been one of our most productive offensive players says it all.

Neither Rj or Brass fit in where we are today. They are not top line guys and we have others to play their roles better on lines two and three. This would free up space for upgrades.

While I am not sure where RyJo fits in all of this, I know it's tough to be an assist type guy when feeding guys who can't find the net.

In terms of defending our net, I think we all agree that we are missing a clear number one netminder. That must be resolved.

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02-28-2013, 05:38 AM
  #199
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re: "depth"

"Depth" in the CAP era is another word for "health". Few teams in today's NHL can expect to win with several of their starters injured.

"Winning Depth" is also the product not only of health, but of rookies and journeymen performing beyond expectations.

On rare occasions, a hot goalie or hot player carries their team on their back for a few games while other key players get healthy, ...but that's not depth. That's signing/drafting the right people.

Even healthy, this roster lacks both the quality and depth to break .500.

But I get all my hockey news from Mattlund, so what do I know?

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02-28-2013, 10:23 AM
  #200
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Folks. I know Richards broke a cardinal sin, at the same time I, personally, didn't see a huge drop off in energy. It was a bit of a dud, but we've played worse. If I was listening to the same comment others were commenting on, it's was basically "Fatigue led to mental mistakes.".

I don't care if it's true, the comment didn't bother me. We did play 3 in 4 nights, along with a lot of people subbing in, so my expectations going in were basically "Keep the feet moving" and "Don't get blown out". The loss of Brassard screwed up the lines. The defense got exposed a bit, as did Bob.

Not biggie. No reason for frustration drama. Coaches that are losing eventually say something that the fan base can jump on, especially when you try and offer what you think is an explanation. You generally offer what the fan base will view as an excuse or you criticize the locker room. Or worse, an individual player. One the fans don't want to hear and the other(s) the player(s) don't want to hear on TV, and some probably don't want to hear it face to face either.

Try and remember your expectations for the season and that the front office is in the evaluation process. I'm not really a Richards fan to begin with, but he is far better, even with that "mistake" last night, than the previous coach. If the front office staff feels he needs replaced he will be.

You can hear the frustration from the players. It will be interesting to see how that frustration is channeled. At some point some of the players will go over to "This shiz ain't working". I wonder how close the locker room will be at that point.
This, with one addition.

That game was a great oppurtunity for Bob to carry the team for a night and make a lasting impression on the new management. I don't feel any better now about the goalie situation than I did a year ago. Yes I know, I'm guilty of having high expectations for Bobrovsky.

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