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02-27-2013, 07:05 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
People keep saying he is playing with "no sense of urgency".

He has never been a lazy player and has consistently been recognized as one of the hardest workers at practice and in the gym. Yet now at the NHL he gets complacent and lazy?

The answer to me is clear as day. He is not reacting to the game, he is overthinking every single cut he makes on the ice. Because if he ****s up once he is done for the game. It's hard to play naturally with that kind of weight hanging over you. Which is exactly why he should be sent down instead of continuing to have his head ****ed with.

I agree i dont buy that Kreider is lazy. From all i've heard from people is that the kid eat and sleeps hockey. he has never acted arrogant and wants to get better. Look I have never said kreider has been great BUT its obvious that he is trying to do whta Torts wants him to do. in fact he is trying to focus on other parts of his game instead of his main asset whihc is offense. Torts reminds me of rex ryan he just focuses on defense and the offense ends up suffering bigtime.

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02-27-2013, 07:15 AM
  #77
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CK def suffering from a crisis of confidence. I hate Torts ( no kidding ) but I can't fully blame him . As far as combine type things go CK is a beast . As for making things happen in the course of a game I'm not sold on his ability . He is kinda like what DreW Henson was a shiny LURE . Great physical ability, great size and speed all the things saying pick me pick me . I'm not sure Ck Is much of a hockey player . Comparing him to JT who hasn't been stellar always but every game does more with the puck and looks like a rookie NHL . CK so far looks like a high school player amongst men . It's sad but he might even be better in the ECHL and dominate and get some swagger back then go to the AHL where he wasn't very good either . Just because he has size and speed and shot doesn't mean he can play .NHL hockey is t a skills test / combine its a game with jobs and money on the line and sadly he's not ready yet . 3 years college hurt him he woulda been better playing pro hockey with guys his size and being for Ed to develop

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02-27-2013, 07:34 AM
  #78
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Now Kreider isn't a hockey player???????



Please trade him, get him away from this fan base and this coach, so he can have a career.

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02-27-2013, 07:55 AM
  #79
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When was the last time he had the puck on his stick for more than a fraction of a second . I love the kid but I actually agree with Torts on this one he is way way over matched .

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02-27-2013, 07:59 AM
  #80
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Kreider has the benefit of the Whale not playing until Friday. So perhaps he'll get a couple of more practices in with the big club before he is inevitably sent back to the Whale.

Have to think Nash is almost ready to return considering the full-practice in a contact jersey yesterday. Should be able to find out more this AM on Nash.

I have a hunch that right now Torts is even considering, if Del Zotto is able to return, putting Bickel at forward so he can get Kreider down.

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02-27-2013, 08:06 AM
  #81
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He isn't a puck possession player. He excels on the rush and around the net. He needs a center who can get him the puck.

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02-27-2013, 08:09 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
He isn't a puck possession player. He excels on the rush and around the net. He needs a center who can get him the puck.
He needs a center who can carry the puck.

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02-27-2013, 08:13 AM
  #83
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I dont see the need to coddle younger players. And make no mistake, those that are defending Kreider by tearing down anything else they can are just making excuses for this young player. Its the coach's fault, or the system's fault, or his teammates fault, or - my personal favorite - the fanbase's fault. Its on Kreider to get better, period. His mistakes, that any young player will make, aren't mistakes of aggression like Miller - and thats the problem in a nutshell.

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02-27-2013, 08:14 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
He needs a center who can carry the puck.
Or a winger who controls the puck. Like Nash.

He hasn't skated one shift with Nash.

Hagelin gets the benefit of leaching off of Nash and riding his coat tails. Kreider needs a confidence booster. Give him a game with Nash when he comes back into the lineup.

Kreider. Stepan. Nash

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02-27-2013, 08:16 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Or a winger who controls the puck. Like Nash.

He hasn't skated one shift with Nash.

Hagelin gets the benefit of leaching off of Nash and riding his coat tails. Kreider needs a confidence booster. Give him a game with Nash when he comes back into the lineup.

Kreider. Stepan. Nash
The problem there is that you are rewarding bad play. If Kreider had looked good, just didn't seem to mesh well with anyone else I would say, go for it. But blowing up the Rangers best line because we feel Kreider needs to play with those players is silly. Hagelin has been the teams best forward playing with Stepan and Nash and lately even without Nash.

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02-27-2013, 08:19 AM
  #86
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I dont know if its Gernander who messed the kid up as much as the hype and media attention he recieved after coming into the POs and playing the way he did. Wouldnt discount the effect that might have had on a young kid. The lack of energy he has shown makes me feel like he thinks he dosnt need to give it his 100%
This is a good post. Del Zotto's slump his second year was largely related to this, and it's very clear that he was not approaching practices and off-ice activities in the same fashion as the year before. This isn't my opinion, this is what Torts has said a million times last year when asked about how he has bounced back.

I believe this is the case with Krieder as well. I won't speculate on the specifics, but the root cause is likely general inconsistency and his mental approach. It's a common thing to occur with young players who experience success quickly.

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02-27-2013, 08:19 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
The problem there is that you are rewarding bad play. If Kreider had looked good, just didn't seem to mesh well with anyone else I would say, go for it. But blowing up the Rangers best line because we feel Kreider needs to play with those players is silly. Hagelin has been the teams best forward playing with Stepan and Nash and lately even without Nash.
Bingo. Coddling. Its nonsense.

Kreider cant move his feet and make any sort of positive impact on the lower lines, so lets play him with Nash - makes sense!

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02-27-2013, 08:24 AM
  #88
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I think it's downright comical that some are equating the "lack of hustle" with laziness or better still, arrogance.

Ridiculously ignorant viewpoint.

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02-27-2013, 08:27 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I dont see the need to coddle younger players. And make no mistake, those that are defending Kreider by tearing down anything else they can are just making excuses for this young player. Its the coach's fault, or the system's fault, or his teammates fault, or - my personal favorite - the fanbase's fault. Its on Kreider to get better, period. His mistakes, that any young player will make, aren't mistakes of aggression like Miller - and thats the problem in a nutshell.
This ^
As for CK not carrying the puck like others say he still needs to be able to handle it and skate it a little . JT M is able to do this as a wing of a center so far . Has he turned it over or over handled / dangled yea but he looks confident and more composed .

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02-27-2013, 08:28 AM
  #90
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with his lack of playing time Kreider should obviously go down. Hopefully Nash is back next game and after that Miller should go down for Asham( yea I know its Asahm)

Hagelin, Stepan, Nash
Gaborik, Richards, Callahan
Pyatt, Boyle,Powe
Mashinter, Halpern, Asham

this season is short deal a 3rd for a depth Forward immediately then send Mashinter back down too.

A few deals yesterday so teams are looking

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02-27-2013, 08:29 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
I think it's downright comical that some are equating the "lack of hustle" with laziness or better still, arrogance.

Ridiculously ignorant viewpoint.
I dont think its laziness. I think its confusion and tentativeness.

Theres several factors at play here, but I really think that hit by Orpik had a longer lasting effect. Hes playing scared.


Last edited by Bleed Ranger Blue: 02-27-2013 at 08:39 AM.
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02-27-2013, 08:31 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
Savard was the only one of those run out of town and that was because of personality issues.
Also worth noting to the original poster that (a) the Amonte trade resulted in Matteua, Noonan and a Stanley Cup; (b) the Zubov trade was certainly questionable at the time, but he was rumored to have left Pittsburg because of personality issues - mostly w 66 - and except for one season, the rest of his career he recorded over 20 points less than he did in 93-94. (c) Kovalev was / is an enigma. He always struggled to play to his potential in NY, the exception being 93-94 playoffs, so it's a little bit of revisionist history to use him as a reference here.

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02-27-2013, 08:31 AM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
People keep saying he is playing with "no sense of urgency".

He has never been a lazy player and has consistently been recognized as one of the hardest workers at practice and in the gym. Yet now at the NHL he gets complacent and lazy?

The answer to me is clear as day. He is not reacting to the game, he is overthinking every single cut he makes on the ice. Because if he ****s up once he is done for the game. It's hard to play naturally with that kind of weight hanging over you. Which is exactly why he should be sent down instead of continuing to have his head ****ed with.
Nailed it. Kid is on the shortest leash imaginable and he's choking on it. Based on Tortorella's comments about Chris when he was sent down and then recalled, I think it's pretty obvious that the organization is forcing him to use him because they think he's ready and Torts doesn't share that opinion. Kid never would have saw ice-time had it not been for Hagelin's suspension / Boyle's injury in the playoffs last year.

Send him back to CT so the kid can develop. This is absolutely ridiculous.

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02-27-2013, 08:36 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
I don't understand why after the benchings and the demotion and everything he still looks like he is playing without any urgency. I understand that scrambling and Hagelin-ing around is not his game. But the coach clearly wants him to move his feet more. Kreider can at least put on a show for him.
I think he's in his own head. Thinking too much.

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02-27-2013, 08:37 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Or a winger who controls the puck. Like Nash.

He hasn't skated one shift with Nash.

Hagelin gets the benefit of leaching off of Nash and riding his coat tails. Kreider needs a confidence booster. Give him a game with Nash when he comes back into the lineup.

Kreider. Stepan. Nash
This is simply incorrect. Hagelin has been the team's best forward since Nash got injured.

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02-27-2013, 08:44 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Or a winger who controls the puck. Like Nash.

He hasn't skated one shift with Nash.

Hagelin gets the benefit of leaching off of Nash and riding his coat tails. Kreider needs a confidence booster. Give him a game with Nash when he comes back into the lineup.

Kreider. Stepan. Nash
Now that's just silly.

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02-27-2013, 08:48 AM
  #97
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Now that's just silly.
Indeed. Hagelin has earned every minute and every assignment hes gotten. The actual argument presented here was to let Kreider ride Nash's coattails without earning it.

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02-27-2013, 09:03 AM
  #98
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During the last game that they played in Boston (2/12), someone (I don't know if it was Michelletti or Giannone) mentioned that Tortorella "wanted more cowboy in Chris Kreider". I believe this was in reference to JT Miller having "a lot of cowboy in his game".

I interpret that to mean that it's more assertiveness that the coaching staff wants to see in Kreider, and not a matter of more effort.

Kreider has shown flashes of snarl in his game, but it hasn't been sustained. With his physical tools, Kreider could be the exact type of player that they need. Someone who goes to the net and battles for rebounds, but also has some ability to finish.

Just my $0.02.

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02-27-2013, 09:05 AM
  #99
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I was at the Garden last night. Kreider just looked totally disengaged. Wasn't using his speed, wasn't using his size, and just wasn't really doing much of anything in the time he was out there.

Needs to be in Hartford.

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02-27-2013, 09:14 AM
  #100
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I agree i dont buy that Kreider is lazy. From all i've heard from people is that the kid eat and sleeps hockey. he has never acted arrogant and wants to get better. Look I have never said kreider has been great BUT its obvious that he is trying to do whta Torts wants him to do. in fact he is trying to focus on other parts of his game instead of his main asset whihc is offense. Torts reminds me of rex ryan he just focuses on defense and the offense ends up suffering bigtime.
The problem CK is having is a team wide problem. There's no team in the league that holds the point worse than we do and that is because of the fear that a defensive mistake could be made and so too many pucks leave the offensive zone and end our attack time. This is a function of Torts' edict to play smart away from the puck or die. And btw, lately every time a player has taken a bad penalty at a key time in the second period, that player watched the third period. Yet last night Boyle took a dumb penalty to kill our momentum and Captain Boston kept putting his boy out there in the third down by a goal or two when he shouldn't be on the ice in that situation even if he hadn't taken a bad penalty. Double standard; bad for team. Torts needs to go.

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