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The KHL Discuss the Continental Hockey League (Kontinentalnaya Hokkeynaya Liga).

Cup of Hope (Kubok Nadezhdy) 2013 [parallel to the Gagarin Cup]

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Old
02-26-2013, 06:42 AM
  #26
Vicente
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This tournament was made to keep players in form for the international tournaments right? So here the tournament really starts today when teams like Lev and Slovan are already out of the playoffs... somebody gets the irony?

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02-26-2013, 06:42 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by SoundAndFury View Post
I'd say today is the day when it's official - this tournament failed. Even in hockey mad Khabarovsk it generated almost no interest with 2720 people in attendance.
on the other hand goalie Sorokin, 1995, played

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02-26-2013, 07:42 AM
  #28
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on the other hand goalie Sorokin, 1995, played
And 20 other guys who would rather rest.

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02-26-2013, 07:56 AM
  #29
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And 20 other guys who would rather rest.
yeah

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02-26-2013, 08:10 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundAndFury View Post
And 20 other guys who would rather rest.
they still have to practice by contract into like april

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02-26-2013, 08:30 AM
  #31
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they still have to practice by contract into like april
Do they really do that? That's ridiculous.

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02-26-2013, 08:51 AM
  #32
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Do they really do that? That's ridiculous.
They did in past, because they have contracts until 30.April. So they are obligated to do what clubs want.

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02-26-2013, 08:57 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by SoundAndFury View Post
Do they really do that? That's ridiculous.
yes, utter stupidity

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02-26-2013, 10:36 AM
  #34
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yes, utter stupidity
The arguments in favor of continuing to practice are that candidates for national teams would stay in shape for international competitions, instead of an almost 3 month layoff; and, the teams could use the practice if they are to compete for the real playoffs next year. The good players are making plenty of money, so its hard to have sympathy for those who would rather rest!

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02-26-2013, 11:33 AM
  #35
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The arguments in favor of continuing to practice are that candidates for national teams would stay in shape for international competitions, instead of an almost 3 month layoff; and, the teams could use the practice if they are to compete for the real playoffs next year. The good players are making plenty of money, so its hard to have sympathy for those who would rather rest!
I think it's good that the players stay in shape but woudn't it make more sense if the national team candidates (look, there are Fins, Czechs, Slovaks, Russians, Swedes etc) would have training sessions with their national teams instead of their club teams who next year might have a completely new face?!

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02-26-2013, 12:03 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
The arguments in favor of continuing to practice are that candidates for national teams would stay in shape for international competitions, instead of an almost 3 month layoff; and, the teams could use the practice if they are to compete for the real playoffs next year. The good players are making plenty of money, so its hard to have sympathy for those who would rather rest!
1. There are very few candidates in these teams who didn't make the playoffs. And these few are mostly Latvians.
2. Practicing in spring doesn't help to get into the playoffs at all. Good chunk of the players won't even be with the same team come next season.
3. The good players in most cases are that good because they use their summers to improve and work on their weaknesses (NHL model). Staying with the team for extended period of time just takes away that opportunity.

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02-26-2013, 12:11 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Vicente View Post
I think it's good that the players stay in shape but woudn't it make more sense if the national team candidates (look, there are Fins, Czechs, Slovaks, Russians, Swedes etc) would have training sessions with their national teams instead of their club teams who next year might have a completely new face?!
I agree with you, but without knowing how it is scheduled, don't national team camps convene just before the WC? If you are saying that national teams are already convened by late February, then yes, the players who are national team candidates would definitely be better off with their national teams. To my knowledge, no such arrangement currently exists, but if I am wrong, please correct me. Thanks.

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02-26-2013, 12:14 PM
  #38
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what's the cup of hope?
Nobody cares, players in front. Keep them warm up until the WC

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02-26-2013, 12:21 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by SoundAndFury View Post
1. There are very few candidates in these teams who didn't make the playoffs. And these few are mostly Latvians.
2. Practicing in spring doesn't help to get into the playoffs at all. Good chunk of the players won't even be with the same team come next season.
3. The good players in most cases are that good because they use their summers to improve and work on their weaknesses (NHL model). Staying with the team for extended period of time just takes away that opportunity.
The best point you make is that many of the players won't be with the team next year, but those are likely to be the players who are on the edge that management isn't interested in re-signing. Your weakest point is that players are somehow better off practicing by themselves in the summer. With a few exceptions no doubt, practice is almost always better when you are practicing against competition, and when your workout is supervised by a coach who doesn't care whether you don't feel like working today.

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02-26-2013, 12:42 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Yakushev72 View Post
Your weakest point is that players are somehow better off practicing by themselves in the summer. With a few exceptions no doubt, practice is almost always better when you are practicing against competition, and when your workout is supervised by a coach who doesn't care whether you don't feel like working today.
Well that's the difference of schools of thought more than anything else (and even in this case you could say it's KHL vs. NHL). In the NHL it's up to your work ethic and professionalism and I suppose in the KHL many many people are thinking the way you do.


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02-26-2013, 02:41 PM
  #41
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Well that's the difference of schools of thought more than anything else (and even in this case you could say it's KHL vs. NHL). In the NHL it's up to you and you work ethic and professionalism and I suppose in the KHL many many people are thinking in a way you do.
I guess so, when I read Yakushev72 I though - very typical thing that a Russian coach of 70s-80s would say. I'm not saying that is worse or better than training individually in the summer, as you already said- difference of schools of thought.

This ''keeping shape for NT" is also a typically European approach. I don't follow NHL much but I doubt they'd invent pauses in the NHL calendar to somehow accomodate national teams etc. I haven't seen that. Then again Canadians have a scheme how to play, so they do not need much time to prepare- everybody knows what's expected from him and where does he fit in the puzzle. For Russians building of a team is more like alchemy, searching and sorting and trying out players to find out a perfect combination... Like last year's top line at the WC. I highly doubt the line would be more productive if Malkin was just thrown in together with two other NHLers and asked to play the next day...

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02-26-2013, 04:59 PM
  #42
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Well that's the difference of schools of thought more than anything else (and even in this case you could say it's KHL vs. NHL). In the NHL it's up to your work ethic and professionalism and I suppose in the KHL many many people are thinking the way you do.
I see your point, but in the NHL, when the season is over, you're just on vacation, period. There may be some individual NHL players who choose to stay in good shape, but its totally optional on their part. I suppose its true of European players and marginal North American players, because they are on the bubble of either the AHL or (in the case of Europeans), returning to their home countries. Look at film of the 1972 series and you will see that the Canadians were in deplorable shape for the first couple of games. Luckily, there was a two week break between the end of the Canadian half of the series and the Russian segment, so that they could get in better shape. Anyway, I don't really have a passionate belief in the Cup of Hope series.

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02-26-2013, 06:38 PM
  #43
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I don't know but I have the feeling my friends you are all a bit confused.

In NHL the regular season ends in April usually. The players who participate in the World Cups are guys who have 4-5 weeks of a break in the worst case while others join the teams after losing the first playoff round.

In Europe it's possible to have no game after end of February. That's 5-7 weeks longer than for any NHL player. National team training camps start usually in April. So what are players doing in the 5 weeks in between here in Europe?

Nadezhda Cup is an interestin idea but not really the solution. Especially when you look that even Gagarin Cup playoffs are now over for many teams.

PS:

For me it's 2 different things with the preparation for World Championships and staying in shape during off season. A good hockey player will always work hard during off season. You can hire a personal trainer if needed. But the real problem is the national team gap IMHO.

It's not a KHL-only problem. Same is valid for DEL, NLA, Extraliga and many other leagues. Maybe they should have just more preparation tournaments for the extended national team rosters where they can face each other.

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02-26-2013, 07:48 PM
  #44
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I just can't see how is this "time to WC" thing relevant to this tournament. All the Latvians aside, there are no more than 10 players who could take part in the WC. And for most of the teams it prolongs season for few weeks and 3 games so it's really unlikely to make a difference in that sense.

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02-27-2013, 05:10 AM
  #45
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I just can't see how is this "time to WC" thing relevant to this tournament. All the Latvians aside, there are no more than 10 players who could take part in the WC. And for most of the teams it prolongs season for few weeks and 3 games so it's really unlikely to make a difference in that sense.
That's exactly my point. For non-national team players it's just a few more games and for national team players it's a waste of time they could invest better.

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02-27-2013, 08:31 AM
  #46
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Quite suprisingly Yugra is no match to Automobilist and are trailing series 2-0 while being totally outshot and outscored. Are they too heartbroken to play after missing the playoffs or they just generally don't give a ****? Or Avto turned into a superb team over few weeks?

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02-27-2013, 09:43 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Vicente View Post
I don't know but I have the feeling my friends you are all a bit confused.

In NHL the regular season ends in April usually. The players who participate in the World Cups are guys who have 4-5 weeks of a break in the worst case while others join the teams after losing the first playoff round.

In Europe it's possible to have no game after end of February. That's 5-7 weeks longer than for any NHL player. National team training camps start usually in April. So what are players doing in the 5 weeks in between here in Europe?

Nadezhda Cup is an interestin idea but not really the solution. Especially when you look that even Gagarin Cup playoffs are now over for many teams.

PS:

For me it's 2 different things with the preparation for World Championships and staying in shape during off season. A good hockey player will always work hard during off season. You can hire a personal trainer if needed. But the real problem is the national team gap IMHO.

It's not a KHL-only problem. Same is valid for DEL, NLA, Extraliga and many other leagues. Maybe they should have just more preparation tournaments for the extended national team rosters where they can face each other.
I don't know what the rationale for the Nadezhda Cup is, but it is obviously designed to extend the season, for whatever reason. Maybe it has nothing to do with the WC. Maybe it is designed to generate additional revenue.

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02-27-2013, 09:48 AM
  #48
vorky
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Another guys made their KHL debut, G Litvinov (93, Novokuznetsk), F Martyshko (94, Donbass), D Strebkov (92,Novokuznetsk), D Vsevolod Sorokin (93, Spartak) and G Ilya Sorokin (95,Novokuznetsk) with another game.

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02-27-2013, 10:05 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vorky View Post
Another guys made their KHL debut, G Litvinov (93, Novokuznetsk), F Martyshko (94, Donbass), D Strebkov (92,Novokuznetsk), D Vsevolod Sorokin (93, Spartak) and G Ilya Sorokin (95,Novokuznetsk) with another game.
Technically, it's not a KHL debut, or at least it shouldn't be counted as such.

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02-27-2013, 10:53 AM
  #50
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Technically, it's not a KHL debut, or at least it shouldn't be counted as such.
so debut in KHL´s Nadezhda Cup. Better?

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