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Old
02-27-2013, 10:23 AM
  #51
bigtimehockeyfan999
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CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Corey Perry ($6.500m)
Max Pacioretty ($4.500m) / David Desharnais ($2.500m) / Michael Ryder ($3.500m)
Lars Eller ($1.325m) / Alex Galchenyuk ($3.225m) / Brendan Gallagher ($0.870m)
Travis Moen ($1.850m) / Brandon Prust ($2.500m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Ryan White ($0.722m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Emelin ($2.000m)
Josh Gorges ($3.900m) / P.K. Subban ($2.875m)
Raphael Diaz ($1.225m) / Jarred Tinordi ($1.083m)
Francis Bouillon ($1.500m) /
GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($6.500m)
Peter Budaj ($1.150m)
OTHER
Buyout: Tomas Kaberle ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,322,708; BONUSES: $2,697,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,674,792
------
CALCULATOR LOG
* Tomas Kaberle bought out.
* Peter Budaj signed as free agent for $1,150,000.
* Ryan White signed as free agent for $721,875.
* Jarred Tinordi recalled.
* Francis Bouillon signed as free agent for $1,500,000.
* Corey Perry created and signed for $6,500,000.
* Michael Ryder signed as free agent for $3,500,000.
* David Desharnais signed as free agent for $2,500,000.



winner

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02-27-2013, 10:25 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
I like this idea but I'd go one further or at least try to. I'd try to get the Getlaf - Perry combo and hope they take a little less to stay together. Than I'd trade Gionta and DD to get the additional cash and a shut down defender to add to our corp.

FORWARDS
Max Pacioretty ($4.500m) / Ryan Getzlaf ($6.00m / Corey Perry ($6.00m)
Rene Bourque ($3.333m)/ Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) /Brendan Gallagher ($0.870m)
Alex Galchenyuk ($3.225m) /Lars Eller ($1.325m) / Brandon Prust ($2.500m)
Travis Moen ($1.850m) / Ryan White ($0.850m) / Louis Leblanc ($1.170m) /

DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Emelin ($2.000m)
P.K. Subban ($2.875m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.225m)
Josh Gorges ($3.900m) / Jarred Tinordi ($1.083m)
Morgan Ellis ($0.900m)

GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($6.500m)
Dustin Tokarski ($0.650m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $61,500,000

We'd still have a cushion and enough dough for another top 4 defensive defensman.
If those 2 would reach UFA status they'd be looking at above 7 mil/year for sure.

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Old
02-27-2013, 10:25 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtimehockeyfan999 View Post
CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Corey Perry ($6.500m)
Max Pacioretty ($4.500m) / David Desharnais ($2.500m) / Michael Ryder ($3.500m)
Lars Eller ($1.325m) / Alex Galchenyuk ($3.225m) / Brendan Gallagher ($0.870m)
Travis Moen ($1.850m) / Brandon Prust ($2.500m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Ryan White ($0.722m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Emelin ($2.000m)
Josh Gorges ($3.900m) / P.K. Subban ($2.875m)
Raphael Diaz ($1.225m) / Jarred Tinordi ($1.083m)
Francis Bouillon ($1.500m) /
GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($6.500m)
Peter Budaj ($1.150m)
OTHER
Buyout: Tomas Kaberle ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,322,708; BONUSES: $2,697,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $2,674,792
------
CALCULATOR LOG
* Tomas Kaberle bought out.
* Peter Budaj signed as free agent for $1,150,000.
* Ryan White signed as free agent for $721,875.
* Jarred Tinordi recalled.
* Francis Bouillon signed as free agent for $1,500,000.
* Corey Perry created and signed for $6,500,000.
* Michael Ryder signed as free agent for $3,500,000.
* David Desharnais signed as free agent for $2,500,000.



winner
Gionta on your 4th line.... Did he grow a foot and add 70pounds I don't know about?

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Old
02-27-2013, 10:30 AM
  #54
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So we've moved on from the mythical 'salary cap hell'...to salary cap heaven now?

Lovely lol

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Old
02-27-2013, 10:31 AM
  #55
bigtimehockeyfan999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsfannick View Post
Gionta on your 4th line.... Did he grow a foot and add 70pounds I don't know about?
yah..i didn't really know what to do with gionta so i just kinda left him there on the bottom line

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02-27-2013, 10:34 AM
  #56
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The trade was a pretty risky move. Nothing is sure about singing a winger like Perry. So Habs could end with a huge hole on the wing since I doubt they would want to sign a limited player like Ryder to a 3 years deal, which is what he will probably want. And there is no youngster ready on the wings.

Ryder will probably score 4-5 more goals than Cole on the Power Play for the rest of the season, and not all of these goals will have a true impact on the result of the games. And Ryder is not as good as Cole in any other aspect of the game.

Moreover, Cole was the only true Power Forward of the team; Max Pac isn't there yet - he doesn't rush the net with the same autorithy then Cole.

No really, Bergevin MUST use the money saved to sign a significant winger next year. And that makes it a poker move - so Habs can lose it all.

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02-27-2013, 10:35 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtimehockeyfan999 View Post
yah..i didn't really know what to do with gionta so i just kinda left him there on the bottom line
If Ryder and DD are resigned and Perry is picked up Gionta is traded no doubt

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02-27-2013, 10:37 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Habsfannick View Post
If Ryder and DD are resigned and Perry is picked up Gionta is traded no doubt
If we had a legit shot at Perry then Ryder would be gone.

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02-27-2013, 10:37 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
So we've moved on from the mythical 'salary cap hell'...to salary cap heaven now?

Lovely lol
Oh, you forgot Gomez already?

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02-27-2013, 10:47 AM
  #60
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Imagine if Bergevin could really pull this off...

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Max Pacioretty ($4.500m) / Ryan Getzlaf ($7.500m) / Corey Perry ($7.500m)
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Alex Galchenyuk ($3.225m) / Lars Eller ($1.325m) / Brendan Gallagher ($0.870m)
Travis Moen ($1.850m) / Ryan White ($0.722m) / Brandon Prust ($2.500m)
Gabriel Dumont ($0.578m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Emelin ($2.000m)
Josh Gorges ($3.900m) / P.K. Subban ($2.875m)
Francis Bouillon ($1.200m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.225m)
Yannick Weber ($0.945m)
GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($6.500m)
Dustin Tokarski ($0.660m)
OTHER
Buyout: Tomas Kaberle ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,472,708; BONUSES: $2,485,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $312,292

I don't think you can undercut Perry/Getzlaf on salary, so I put them at the full $7.5M. The new CBA rules on mega-long deals and front-loads and all that mean there isn't going to be much room to reduce their cap hits.

And logistically, the only guys who won't be signed as you approach July 1st are the guys who are already free agents. Desharnais and Ryder... who become your backup plans, basically. I like Desharnais. But if you've got Getzlaf/Perry signed, you don't worry about underselling the RFA Desharnais in a trade at that point. By the same token, if you get there on July 1st and Getzlaf/Perry are going somewhere else, you can just go the default route and still re-sign Desharnais, maybe also get an offer in to Ryder in time.

It's a pretty narrow margin on the cap space, however, and leans on the bonus cushion. I'm not sure that Bergevin would really do that. But at least, as a theoretical exercise, it *could* be done.

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02-27-2013, 10:53 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Imagine if Bergevin could really pull this off...

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Max Pacioretty ($4.500m) / Ryan Getzlaf ($7.500m) / Corey Perry ($7.500m)
Rene Bourque ($3.333m) / Tomas Plekanec ($5.000m) / Brian Gionta ($5.000m)
Alex Galchenyuk ($3.225m) / Lars Eller ($1.325m) / Brendan Gallagher ($0.870m)
Travis Moen ($1.850m) / Ryan White ($0.722m) / Brandon Prust ($2.500m)
Gabriel Dumont ($0.578m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Andrei Markov ($5.750m) / Alexei Emelin ($2.000m)
Josh Gorges ($3.900m) / P.K. Subban ($2.875m)
Francis Bouillon ($1.200m) / Raphael Diaz ($1.225m)
Yannick Weber ($0.945m)
GOALTENDERS
Carey Price ($6.500m)
Dustin Tokarski ($0.660m)
OTHER
Buyout: Tomas Kaberle ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,472,708; BONUSES: $2,485,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $312,292

I don't think you can undercut Perry/Getzlaf on salary, so I put them at the full $7.5M. The new CBA rules on mega-long deals and front-loads and all that mean there isn't going to be much room to reduce their cap hits.

And logistically, the only guys who won't be signed as you approach July 1st are the guys who are already free agents. Desharnais and Ryder... who become your backup plans, basically. I like Desharnais. But if you've got Getzlaf/Perry signed, you don't worry about underselling the RFA Desharnais in a trade at that point. By the same token, if you get there on July 1st and Getzlaf/Perry are going somewhere else, you can just go the default route and still re-sign Desharnais, maybe also get an offer in to Ryder in time.

It's a pretty narrow margin on the cap space, however, and leans on the bonus cushion. I'm not sure that Bergevin would really do that. But at least, as a theoretical exercise, it *could* be done.
If Bergevin really has something like that in mind, it could turn out pretty ugly. Major Poker move. If it doesn't work, it would leave the Habs with a major hole on the wing, as I don't think the management will like the idea of having Ryder on the team for 2-3 years. He's not a team player and certainly not an inspiration or calming presence for Habs' youngsters.

If the signing of a big name winger doesn't work, it would mean Bergevin will have to overpay for lesser names like Clowe.

It is not a bad trade, but it is a risky poker move.

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02-27-2013, 10:56 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
If those 2 would reach UFA status they'd be looking at above 7 mil/year for sure.
I think your avatar speaks to your "for sure" comment. You don't know what they want and some times, players will take a discount or choose a different team in the right situation.

It's not always just about the money. If they feel they can be kept together and be brought into a team that's already at the top of the conference, they can be the missing pieces to a perrenial cup contender, than what's a half million to a million bucks if you can be part of something big and enjoy all the perks of playing in a hockey crazed environement at it's best. Last time Habs were in the eastern Finals, Montreal was insane. Players like that and want to be part of that. It does have a real dollar value.

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02-27-2013, 10:58 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
So we've moved on from the mythical 'salary cap hell'...to salary cap heaven now?

Lovely lol
Well lucky for us that the new CBA included the 2 buyouts cap free or we would still have been in cap hell going forward

If Kaberle is gone along with Gomez that 12 million dollars that we would have never had under the old CBA going forward

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02-27-2013, 11:01 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
f it doesn't work, it would leave the Habs with a major hole on the wing
So basically it would be this year all over again, when Cole played about 5 good games and the team still won plenty of games despite him being a non-factor a lot of nights.

And you really think the Habs would enter a season with 10-12 M under the cap if they struck out on a big fish? It's not like wingers are hard to find. The proof is most of this board worships at the AK46 church and not one NHL team signed him.

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02-27-2013, 11:03 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LePoche69 View Post
If Bergevin really has something like that in mind, it could turn out pretty ugly. Major Poker move. If it doesn't work, it would leave the Habs with a major hole on the wing, as I don't think the management will like the idea of having Ryder on the team for 2-3 years. He's not a team player and certainly not an inspiration or calming presence for Habs' youngsters.

If the signing of a big name winger doesn't work, it would mean Bergevin will have to overpay for lesser names like Clowe.

It is not a bad trade, but it is a risky poker move.
I don't see how it's all that risky. Because what we have in hand right now, by default, is already ok. The whole Getzlaf/Perry dream duo is probably going to get sorted out before July 1st anyway. Just if it doesn't, if they do go to market, we can bid. Desharnais is RFA and we can hold his rights until the Getlzaf option evapourates. We ought to know from the opening bid whether we're really in the running for Perry or not.

I don't think the Habs should go off on some drawn out courting process on those guys, though. Make your best offers up front. There are 7-year limits and we can shoe-horn in $7.5M ea. So that's it right there, there isn't any negotiating. You offer them $52.5M/7yrs right when the market opens. If they don't take it, you move on and get a winger signed (maybe Ryder, maybe Clowe, whoever - we can essentially afford anybody), and plan to re-sign Desharnais when time allows. It shouldn't be all that risky. We're either going to end up with the same lineup as today, with Desharnais and Ryder/Clowe/some decent 20-goal candidate signed on wing, or we win the jackpot - highly unlikely, but also not really risking anything by putting our offer out there.

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02-27-2013, 11:04 AM
  #66
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Well lucky for us that the new CBA included the 2 buyouts cap free or we would still have been in cap hell going forward
If Kaberle is gone along with Gomez that 12 million dollars that we would have never had under the old CBA going forward
There's no such thing as salary cap hell

As for the money freed up because of the eventual buyout of Gomez and the inevitable buyout of Kaberle

if the Habs go out and spend that money on more useless player, they won't be better placed.

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02-27-2013, 11:09 AM
  #67
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Free agency rarely works out for anyone but the player and his bank account. I'd rather see the team build slowly and through smart trades rather than the overpaying of players at their peak value.

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02-27-2013, 11:10 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by shutehinside View Post
I think your avatar speaks to your "for sure" comment. You don't know what they want and some times, players will take a discount or choose a different team in the right situation.

It's not always just about the money. If they feel they can be kept together and be brought into a team that's already at the top of the conference, they can be the missing pieces to a perrenial cup contender, than what's a half million to a million bucks if you can be part of something big and enjoy all the perks of playing in a hockey crazed environement at it's best. Last time Habs were in the eastern Finals, Montreal was insane. Players like that and want to be part of that. It does have a real dollar value.
I don't see them taking a discount to go to Montreal and pay higher taxes.

Plus one factor that will increase the cap hit of UFA's is that contracts can only be 7 years, so no Parise or Suter 13 year 98 million deals. Those contracts over 7 years are 71 mil so 10.14 mil cap hit. I think it will lead to deflation(lower cap plus higher cap hits), those players will get less money due to the cap, but i still see the overall cap hit higher than Suter and Parise's 7.5 mil for Perry and Getlaf(assuming they hit full UFA)..

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02-27-2013, 11:11 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 417 View Post
There's no such thing as salary cap hell

As for the money freed up because of the eventual buyout of Gomez and the inevitable buyout of Kaberle

if the Habs go out and spend that money on more useless player, they won't be better placed.
Is that even possible for a combined 12 million?

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02-27-2013, 11:13 AM
  #70
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Free agency rarely works out for anyone but the player and his bank account. I'd rather see the team build slowly and through smart trades rather than the overpaying of players at their peak value.
There are instances where it worked out really well(Chara in Boston, Hossa in Chicago, and I'm sure there are a bunch more), it just has to be the right fit, not just throwing big money around to get to the cap.

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02-27-2013, 11:16 AM
  #71
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Is that even possible for a combined 12 million?
Of course it's possible...big UFA signings very rarely work out right off the bat.

The last time the Habs had a bunch of cap space available, they went out and traded for Gomez, signed Cammalleri + Gionta to inflated deals.

Cap space is great...but it's not anymore important than sound player evaluation. Being able to determine if a player will fit into your team structure is an ability very few GM's have.

Anytime you make a splash on the free agent market, you're most likely going to 'overpay' to acquire a player.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's great the Habs and MB have manipulated their own salary structure to create more flexibility, but that flexibility might be even more important for their OWN players than it is for any perspective free agent.

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02-27-2013, 11:18 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I don't see them taking a discount to go to Montreal and pay higher taxes.

Plus one factor that will increase the cap hit of UFA's is that contracts can only be 7 years, so no Parise or Suter 13 year 98 million deals. Those contracts over 7 years are 71 mil so 10.14 mil cap hit. I think it will lead to deflation(lower cap plus higher cap hits), those players will get less money due to the cap, but i still see the overall cap hit higher than Suter and Parise's 7.5 mil for Perry and Getlaf(assuming they hit full UFA)..
Sorry but just because you don't "see it" doesn't mean it's not a possibility. Seeing Bergy work and the fact he's shedding salary and building cap space, you know he's working to take on additional salary and put his mark on the team. How he does it is the question.

I'm not saying this scenario is likely or even going to happen. It is nice knowing we have this space, a management team with the wherewithall and that have to make some significant moves in the season or off season. Whether it's Pery, Getzlaf, ROR etc etc etc, we have the team and cap in place to get er' done and hope to build a great team moving forward.

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02-27-2013, 11:27 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
There are instances where it worked out really well(Chara in Boston, Hossa in Chicago, and I'm sure there are a bunch more), it just has to be the right fit, not just throwing big money around to get to the cap.
I agree there is the odd exception, but generally speaking it isn't the best way to assemble a team.

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02-27-2013, 11:29 AM
  #74
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Free agency rarely works out for anyone but the player and his bank account. I'd rather see the team build slowly and through smart trades rather than the overpaying of players at their peak value.
True dat. Business-wise, it is really the opposite of a smart transaction ===) Buy low/sell high.

Perry AND Getzlaf = No go.

I would not mind going after Perry for 7 mil a year 5 years total though. So he will be 32-33 years olds when his contract expires, hopefully not on the decline.

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02-27-2013, 11:30 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
There are instances where it worked out really well(Chara in Boston, Hossa in Chicago, and I'm sure there are a bunch more), it just has to be the right fit, not just throwing big money around to get to the cap.
Or, if you throw big money around just to get to the cap, it has to be in a way that can't possibly hurt you. Like, you could take the Semin $7M deal if you had the cap space sitting unused... given that it's for 1-year.

Habs really should be spending to the cap every year, at any rate. It should always be possible to project well enough to allow that, and if there are players available that can improve the team, go ahead and spend. We're supposed to be a team that has that luxury. We don't need to be constrained or feel shy because of how badly the Gomez/Kaberle/etc deals might have burned us in the past. Be aggressive. But smart too. Both should be possible.

And you can always get around mistakes too. We've seen that. The so-called "cap hell" is something you can escape from. Again, may require "smart". But I fully expect "smart" out of our GM. You can't anticipate everything that might befall a player, and it's entirely possible that a deal looks smart at one point, but ends up as a "cap hell" item at another. Cue smart GM fixing it. I wouldn't be too fearful of making aggressive moves just because they might fail to pan out. That could happen any time, with a draft pick, with a trade, etc. But there are ways around it.

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