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What does MacKinnon have over Barkov?

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Old
02-27-2013, 05:06 AM
  #76
Kulleroinen
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Canadian passport
This.

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02-27-2013, 07:25 AM
  #77
satchmo
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In all honesty, I would also be hesitant to draft a Finn high. The last finnish star in nhl is selanne.........

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02-27-2013, 08:08 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by DK28 View Post
I agree from the video I have seen of Barkov. I question whether people confuse an effortless and fluid stride with slow and laboured. He seems to be where he needs to be when he needs to be there always around the puck and making the plays. He has sweet hands for such a young and powerful guy. He reminds me of Jaromir Jagr in that way. He also seems to have the same calmness and easiness about his game. Jagr was drafted #5, as others were deemed to be more NHL ready at the time. I wonder if a team will be lucky with Barkov. I would be hesitant to pass him by.
That isn't true at all...

Jagr didn't go 1st overall because teams were worried that they wouldn't be able to get him over due to his military service and contract. On draft day, Jagr had a contract with Kladno and was still supposed to have military service. Of course the world changed quite a bit that summer.

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02-27-2013, 10:41 AM
  #79
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Haven't seen Barkov enough to make a judgement on his game. Mackinnon definitely has tools to become a solid pro. The way I see it is :- Jones, Mackinnon, Drouin, Barkov.

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02-27-2013, 10:43 AM
  #80
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One Macks and the other Barks.

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02-27-2013, 11:06 AM
  #81
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I doubt there are many here who have seen enough of all of these players to judge what order they should be in. I doubt there are many pro scouts for that matter, and even then the competition they are playing in is clearly different. I believe that Barkov is playing against harder competition, which makes his accomplishments this year even greater, but there is the unknown factor from CDN fans. At this point, it pretty much is a crap shoot between these four. Any and all could become legit stars in the NHL, and I don't recall such a year where any of four players were regarded with such high rankings. This is a debate that won't have a solid answer for another five years plus.

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02-27-2013, 11:43 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Fogelhund View Post
I doubt there are many here who have seen enough of all of these players to judge what order they should be in. I doubt there are many pro scouts for that matter, and even then the competition they are playing in is clearly different. I believe that Barkov is playing against harder competition, which makes his accomplishments this year even greater, but there is the unknown factor from CDN fans. At this point, it pretty much is a crap shoot between these four. Any and all could become legit stars in the NHL, and I don't recall such a year where any of four players were regarded with such high rankings. This is a debate that won't have a solid answer for another five years plus.


I have seen almost every game Barkov has played the past 2 years and I`m thrilled with what I`ve seen! Never has a Finnish prospect been better. However I haven`t seen enough of the NA prospects to compare them! They have different competition and different playstyles! I`m thinking this is gonna be a sick top4 and I`m pretty confident there will hardly be a bust in theese guys...

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02-27-2013, 12:18 PM
  #83
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I haven't seen MacKinnon so cant speak about him but few things that make Barkov desirable is that he is pure center (seen MacKinnon listed both C and RW) and I think that Barkov is ready to step up to the NHL right away (Couturier style). Just my two cents.


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02-27-2013, 12:21 PM
  #84
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MacKinnon has the will and drive to force a scoring chance. Barkov while very smart is more of a guy who takes advantage of situations and breakdowns as opposed to creating them with sheer will, I haven't seen the same type of drive from him. That would be the main advantage of MacKinnon in my eyes, there's skating and explosiveness too, but the above I think is the meat of the argument.

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02-27-2013, 12:29 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by nki View Post
MacKinnon has the will and drive to force a scoring chance. Barkov while very smart is more of a guy who takes advantage of situations and breakdowns as opposed to creating them with sheer will, I haven't seen the same type of drive from him. That would be the main advantage of MacKinnon in my eyes, there's skating and explosiveness too, but the above I think is the meat of the argument.
So Mackinnon has more heart?

That actually makes sense as Mackinnon was born way closer to Thunder Bay, Ontario than Barkov

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02-27-2013, 01:02 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by nki View Post
MacKinnon has the will and drive to force a scoring chance. Barkov while very smart is more of a guy who takes advantage of situations and breakdowns as opposed to creating them with sheer will, I haven't seen the same type of drive from him. That would be the main advantage of MacKinnon in my eyes, there's skating and explosiveness too, but the above I think is the meat of the argument.
Lack of seeing Barkov at best. Barkov is pure heart player who plays for his team 110% does all what coach ask for and competes very hard for every rebound, every board fight, blocks shots. I'd see MacKinnon being more intense player but Barkov is all heart and will in different way.

At 1.30 in this clip you'll see how he competes for the puck against men being 16 year old at the time. Pure will. I don't doubt MacKinnons heart and will but you're underestimating Barkov in that thing. It's funny when people have claims when they haven't actually watched Barkov in FEL if in any game. Crazy...


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02-27-2013, 01:03 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by toewsintangibles View Post
So Mackinnon has more heart?

That actually makes sense as Mackinnon was born way closer to Thunder Bay, Ontario than Barkov
You can call it more heart if it makes you feel better, I didn't.

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02-27-2013, 01:08 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by thomast View Post
Lack of seeing Barkov at best. Barkov is pure heart player who plays for his team 110% does all what coach ask for and competes very hard for every rebound, every board fight, blocks shots. I'd see MacKinnon being more intense player but Barkov is all heart and will in different way.

At 1.30 in this clip you'll see how he competes for the puck against men being 16 year old at the time. Pure will.

I'm not even talking about heart, there is no need to make this into a good Canadian boy vs Euro debate because I never even implied this. I know Barkov competes hard and does everything for his team, I'm saying MacKinnon is on another level in intensity/drive in regards to creating scoring chances. This is not a criticism of Barkov, since I feel like MacKinnon is on a different level than anyone in this draft in regards to that.

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02-27-2013, 01:55 PM
  #89
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In all honesty, I would also be hesitant to draft a Finn high. The last finnish star in nhl is selanne.........
This is a dumb post. How other finns turned out has zero effect on Barkov and how he will develop.

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02-27-2013, 02:46 PM
  #90
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This is a dumb post. How other finns turned out has zero effect on Barkov and how he will develop.
Of course it does. Perhaps there is something wrong with the Finnish developmental system.

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02-27-2013, 02:55 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by toewsintangibles View Post
So Mackinnon has more heart?

That actually makes sense as Mackinnon was born way closer to Thunder Bay, Ontario than Barkov
The poster didn't say more heart. He said more drive, which I agree with.

As good as Barkov is, MacKinnon has shown more ability to take the game by the scruff of it's neck and enforce himself on the game.

It's not much of a critique of Barkov, but an example of a contrast in playing styles as MacKinnon generally shows a more aggressive playing style using his skill and skating to create offense, while Barkov in general consistently makes smart decisions using his teammates to create offense rather than relying on individual skill.

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02-27-2013, 02:57 PM
  #92
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Boy, why do I feel like the argument is over which makes a peanut butter and jelly sandwich better? Peanut butter or Jelly? I don't know but both are pretty awesome. Shouldn't this really be about who is Columbus going to have an easier time ruining?

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02-27-2013, 03:19 PM
  #93
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I love both of the prospects, but I have to give the edge to Mackinnon. For me it is simply based on speed and attittude. Mack plays at such a high speed (skating and IQ wise) and uses this to force the play. Barkov on the other hand is patient and waits for plays to develop. When you compare the two (particuarly given the transition Barkov needs to make to NA Ice) The player who plays at another level speed wise is the one with the edge.

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02-27-2013, 03:21 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by The Sweetness View Post
The poster didn't say more heart. He said more drive, which I agree with.

As good as Barkov is, MacKinnon has shown more ability to take the game by the scruff of it's neck and enforce himself on the game.

It's not much of a critique of Barkov, but an example of a contrast in playing styles as MacKinnon generally shows a more aggressive playing style using his skill and skating to create offense, while Barkov in general consistently makes smart decisions using his teammates to create offense rather than relying on individual skill.
So MacKinnons playing style is better than Barkovs? And aggressive playing style for forwards is by default better than any other style?

And Barkov too has scored many goals on which he relied on his own skill alone, naturally that is harder in a mens league than in a junior league.

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02-27-2013, 03:23 PM
  #95
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In short, when all other things are equal in two players, you choose the more flashy one first.

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02-27-2013, 03:38 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Oan View Post
In short, when all other things are equal in two players, you choose the more flashy one first.
Depends if you think being more abrasive and playing more direct to create scoring chances is flashy. If you think that's flashy then I guess I will take the "flashier" prospect, I don't consider that flash. To me flash is when you do pretty things that have no positive result. My belief is when you have two players with similar ability you lean towards the one described above, especially on small ice. To me aggressiveness and directness is definitely an asset when considering a player, I understand if someone has a different viewpoint though.


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02-27-2013, 03:59 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by The Sweetness View Post
The poster didn't say more heart. He said more drive, which I agree with.

As good as Barkov is, MacKinnon has shown more ability to take the game by the scruff of it's neck and enforce himself on the game.

It's not much of a critique of Barkov, but an example of a contrast in playing styles as MacKinnon generally shows a more aggressive playing style using his skill and skating to create offense, while Barkov in general consistently makes smart decisions using his teammates to create offense rather than relying on individual skill.
Well MacKinnon should have an easier time taking over a game since he's playing in a junior league as opposed to a mens league.

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02-27-2013, 04:14 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Oan View Post
So MacKinnons playing style is better than Barkovs? And aggressive playing style for forwards is by default better than any other style?

And Barkov too has scored many goals on which he relied on his own skill alone, naturally that is harder in a mens league than in a junior league.
No, I don't think MacKinnon's playing style is necessarily better. I'm merely commenting on MacKinnon's drive as opposed to Barkov.

But I do think that MacKinnon has shown that he has the drive that the majority of elite offensive guys in the NHL show who can take over games offensively.

However, this doesn't necessarily mean that I think MacKinnon's playing style will translate to the NHL. For all I know, Barkov will continue to adapt and evolve as he grows into his body. Also, there are of course many examples of guys who do not display the same aggressive play offensively that MacKinnon shows and are elite offensive guys.

That being said, it is one critique that I think will be brought up in regards to Barkov so I don't see why we should avoid bringing it up, nor why posters who prefer Barkov should exaggerate such critique.

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02-27-2013, 04:16 PM
  #99
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Is there any critique to be said about MacKinnon then?

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02-27-2013, 04:22 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Cotton500 View Post
Well MacKinnon should have an easier time taking over a game since he's playing in a junior league as opposed to a mens league.
Absolutely. Barkov's been brilliant in the SM-liiga.

But MacKinnon's elite skating and aggressive offensive mentality mean he also has a playing style more conducive to putting his stamp on a game offensively, and if needed going it alone, as opposed to letting the play naturally evolve and making the correct decisions when the puck comes to him as Barkov seems to do.

Again, my comments are more in regards to style of play and don't really who I think is the better player. The Sedin's have obviously been brilliant in the NHL despite not displaying the same drive as someone who enforces their play on a game like Crosby or Giroux.

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