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Daly on impact of realignment on expansion, negotiations w/NHLPA

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02-27-2013, 11:58 AM
  #1
LadyStanley
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Daly on impact of realignment on expansion, negotiations w/NHLPA

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...if-it-happens/

Quote:
“We have to deal now with our current realities, not with hypothetical situations in the future,” Daly said. “If and when we have to reconsider alignment in light of changes in franchise make-up and location we will address the relevant issues at that time.”
...
“We have been in discussions with the Players’ Association for the past several weeks on the issue of realignment and we are trying to get to a solution that everybody can live with,” Daly said. “There are no perfect answers here, so we have to do the best we can in trying to adequately address a number of competing concerns. Once we get to a point where we have the Union’s go-ahead, we will present it to our Board of Governors for its consideration. We certainly hope to be in a position to announce something in the relatively near term.”

Latest summary of realignment:
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...our-divisions/

Quote:
Now, TSN is reporting the latest realignment proposal is back to two conferences — Western and Eastern — with four divisions.

Eastern Conference

Atlantic Division

Carolina
Columbus
New Jersey
New York Islanders
New York Rangers
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Washington

Central Division

Boston
Buffalo
Detroit
Florida
Montreal
Ottawa
Tampa Bay
Toronto

Western Conference

Mid-West Division

Chicago
Colorado
Dallas
Minnesota
Nashville
St. Louis
Winnipeg

Pacific Division

Anaheim
Calgary
Edmonton
Los Angeles
Phoenix
San Jose
Vancouver
With first two rounds of playoff (with play in for 8-team divisions) in division, then 3rd round between divisions in conference.


And NHL/NHLPA are planning on get together after 2015-16 to review re-alignment (or earlier if there are moves/expansion) and apply tweaks.


Last edited by LadyStanley: 02-27-2013 at 12:03 PM.
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02-27-2013, 12:07 PM
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I'm really not sure how this is the final system they came up with considering they consulted with the PA.

It doesn't solve either of the PA's main issues. Which was imbalanced chances to make the playoffs. And Travel. Not entirely sure how moving Detroit and Columbus suddenly solves travel issues.

Florida and Tampa still have to travel to Canada all the time for divisional games. They could have decreased travel by grouping Dallas with Tampa, Florida, etc and Winnipeg, Minnesota, Chicago with Detroit Toronto etc. They seemed to want to keep time zones in line as much as possible rather than grouping teams closer geographically.

Also, there is nothign Central about the central divison. What a stupid name.

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02-27-2013, 12:11 PM
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^^^^

from what I have heard, one thing the PA really wanted were the wild-card teams, and they got that, so maybe they gave up elsewhere to get an agreement.

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02-27-2013, 12:15 PM
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simple answer to your question....the PA never cared for alignment one way or the other in the first place. It was simply a card they played for lockout purposes only. no one at NHLPA HQ is losing sleep if there are unbalanced conferences or that certain teams have to travel longer than others. It was merely a club that Fehr could use to hit the owners with....nothing more...

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02-27-2013, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
I'm really not sure how this is the final system they came up with considering they consulted with the PA.

It doesn't solve either of the PA's main issues. Which was imbalanced chances to make the playoffs. And Travel. Not entirely sure how moving Detroit and Columbus suddenly solves travel issues.

Florida and Tampa still have to travel to Canada all the time for divisional games. They could have decreased travel by grouping Dallas with Tampa, Florida, etc and Winnipeg, Minnesota, Chicago with Detroit Toronto etc. They seemed to want to keep time zones in line as much as possible rather than grouping teams closer geographically.

Also, there is nothign Central about the central divison. What a stupid name.
The PA has been involved this time around and to be frank, last year the PA would've said no to any proposal due to the pending CBA problems at the time.

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02-27-2013, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
I'm really not sure how this is the final system they came up with considering they consulted with the PA.

It doesn't solve either of the PA's main issues. Which was imbalanced chances to make the playoffs. And Travel. Not entirely sure how moving Detroit and Columbus suddenly solves travel issues.

Florida and Tampa still have to travel to Canada all the time for divisional games. They could have decreased travel by grouping Dallas with Tampa, Florida, etc and Winnipeg, Minnesota, Chicago with Detroit Toronto etc. They seemed to want to keep time zones in line as much as possible rather than grouping teams closer geographically.

Also, there is nothign Central about the central divison. What a stupid name.
That's exactly it...Distance in miles isn't as important as crossing time zones.

And as far as the name of the Central division goes...The Cowboys play in the NFC East...it's only a name.

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02-27-2013, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
I'm really not sure how this is the final system they came up with considering they consulted with the PA.

It doesn't solve either of the PA's main issues. Which was imbalanced chances to make the playoffs. And Travel. Not entirely sure how moving Detroit and Columbus suddenly solves travel issues.

Florida and Tampa still have to travel to Canada all the time for divisional games. They could have decreased travel by grouping Dallas with Tampa, Florida, etc and Winnipeg, Minnesota, Chicago with Detroit Toronto etc. They seemed to want to keep time zones in line as much as possible rather than grouping teams closer geographically.

Also, there is nothign Central about the central divison. What a stupid name.
1) there is no way to appease EVERYTHING. They all want to cut down on travel, but some teams due to their location will just have more travel than others. Too Bad. Move out of those cities if that is your biggest concern.

2) teams want to play as many games as possibly within their own time zone for tv purposes. It is has been explained ad nauseum in the original thread. So, that means, you might sometimes have to be grouped with teams that are a little further away. Me personally, I think Nashville should be in the southeast, but they are in the central time zone and that seems more important to the league and it's member teams.

3) the name of the division is not really that big of a deal. For 5 of the 8 teams, the concept of "central" is fine. Just like the Cowboys play in the NFC East, the Rams in the NFC West and the Colts in the AFC South. Doesn't seem to hurt the NFL in the least that these teams location doesn't MATCH their division name. To argue over this is just plain stupid. I would prefer the old names (Patrick, Adams, Norris, Smythe) as then you dont have to worry about Boston being in the "Central" or Columbus being in the Atlantic. But I know, that is too confusing for most people because most people are just flat out dumb.

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02-27-2013, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by MuckOG View Post
That's exactly it...Distance in miles isn't as important as crossing time zones.

And as far as the name of the Central division goes...The Cowboys play in the NFC East...it's only a name.
exactly, and I have NEVER heard anyone complain that there are other teams EAST of Dallas that play in other divisions.

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02-27-2013, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
exactly, and I have NEVER heard anyone complain that there are other teams EAST of Dallas that play in other divisions.
The NFL is a different animal. One game a week on a Sunday afternoon.

The alignment of teams in the NHL seems to be a much larger thing than the alignment of teams in other sports. In the NBA, south isn't a curse word. The NFL, again, one game a week on the weekend in the afternoon. Every team also makes money by simply existing. MLB, still two different leagues, coast to coast, and they play a 3 game series against each other.

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02-27-2013, 12:54 PM
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NHL 9:45am via HootSuite As reported yesterday - NHL proposes realignment and new Stanley Cup Playoffs format. http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=657635&cmpid=nhl-twt




And now, an official stamp of news.

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02-27-2013, 12:55 PM
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I think that the League also wants to avoid repeating the mistake that southern markets are placed together in their own divison and thus despite the travel prefers to ha FLA & TB with established NE markets instead of groupin FLA, CAR, TB, NSH, DAL (& WAS + STL) into single "southern division".

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02-27-2013, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFan7824 View Post
The NFL is a different animal. One game a week on a Sunday afternoon.

The alignment of teams in the NHL seems to be a much larger thing than the alignment of teams in other sports. In the NBA, south isn't a curse word. The NFL, again, one game a week on the weekend in the afternoon. Every team also makes money by simply existing. MLB, still two different leagues, coast to coast, and they play a 3 game series against each other.
Ok on the alignment, but what does it matter if they call the division "Central", or "Northeast", or "NorFLeast", or "CanadaNewEnglandFlorida"? Yes, Buffalo and Detroit can be part of Canada for this purpose.

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02-27-2013, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garry1221
Is it april fools day or something? I still can't believe this is a serious proposal. I said it before, I'll say it again. How the hell does thhe league explain any of this to the casual or new fan and have it make sense to them? After all, they're the ones the league is trying to draw in, correct? When it's such a cluster that long time, true, hardcore fans are having problems wrapping our heads around it, I don't see how it can work long term...or short term for that matter. I don't get how 1 more game vs a select conference makes a conference? Especially when you're taking away games from those teams in your own division. How does the absolute worst proposal, next to sticking w the status quo, get approved?? I know it's not official yet, and if there's a higher power I pray it doesn't get approved.

Many have said this regarding the alignment issue, but it should also be used for the scheduling matrix as well. Keep it simple stupid. Apparently the league and possibly even the PA fall somewhere below that moniker.
True casual fans aren't going to give enough attention to really care how the scheduling matrix works out. All that's important is that it makes sense to those that do care.

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02-27-2013, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noldo View Post
I think that the League also wants to avoid repeating the mistake that southern markets are placed together in their own divison and thus despite the travel prefers to ha FLA & TB with established NE markets instead of groupin FLA, CAR, TB, NSH, DAL (& WAS + STL) into single "southern division".
the converse of that would be, if you created a Southern division, then you would be guaranteed Southern teams making the playof yearly. It could help get a foothold in certain markets.

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02-27-2013, 01:05 PM
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How can they justify everything being about standings in the division when teams in the same division don't play each other an equal amount of times (home, away, or at all) not play the conference an equal amount of times?

I should have been 6 vs the division, 4 vs your own conference, and 8 vs the other conference.

Stupid mickey mouse schedule.

Lets make a system that increases divisional rivalries, then make them play each other 2 games less than they do now.


Last edited by Morris Wanchuk: 02-27-2013 at 01:13 PM.
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02-27-2013, 01:06 PM
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So how do the divisions stack up, revenue wise?

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02-27-2013, 01:08 PM
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Why is the NHL so averse to simpler solutions? Why are they not considering something like:

West
PACIFIC - ANA,CAL,COL,EDM,LA,SJ,VAN + PHX or expansion like SEA
CENTRAL - CHI,CBJ,DAL,DET,MIN,NSH,STL,WPG

East
NORTHEAST - BOS,BUF,MTL,OTT,PIT,TOR + inevitable QUE franchise + GTA/HAM expansion
ATLANTIC - FLA,CAR,NJ,NYI,NYR,PHI,TB,WSH

There are no geographic overlaps here between any divisions and there are at least two powerhouses per division. With current teams, one of DET/CBJ can start in the Northeast so there is a 15/15 balance in the conferences. If Phoenix moves to the Northeast or if there is expansion in the Northeast, then DET/CBJ goes back West.

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02-27-2013, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by RusskiyHockey View Post
Why is the NHL so averse to simpler solutions? Why are they not considering something like:

West
PACIFIC - ANA,CAL,COL,EDM,LA,SJ,VAN + PHX or expansion like SEA
CENTRAL - CHI,CBJ,DAL,DET,MIN,NSH,STL,WPG

East
NORTHEAST - BOS,BUF,MTL,OTT,PIT,TOR + inevitable QUE franchise + GTA/HAM expansion
ATLANTIC - FLA,CAR,NJ,NYI,NYR,PHI,TB,WSH

There are no geographic overlaps here between any divisions and there are at least two powerhouses per division. With current teams, one of DET/CBJ can start in the Northeast so there is a 15/15 balance in the conferences. If Phoenix moves to the Northeast or if there is expansion in the Northeast, then DET/CBJ goes back West.
Because none of that is certainty at this point, only speculation by fans and some in the media.

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02-27-2013, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
I'm really not sure how this is the final system they came up with considering they consulted with the PA.

It doesn't solve either of the PA's main issues. Which was imbalanced chances to make the playoffs. And Travel. Not entirely sure how moving Detroit and Columbus suddenly solves travel issues.

Florida and Tampa still have to travel to Canada all the time for divisional games. They could have decreased travel by grouping Dallas with Tampa, Florida, etc and Winnipeg, Minnesota, Chicago with Detroit Toronto etc. They seemed to want to keep time zones in line as much as possible rather than grouping teams closer geographically.

Also, there is nothign Central about the central divison. What a stupid name.
The hope that I'm still hanging on to is that the PA come back to the League and say: 'It's fine, but we still don't see the need of the extra travel for the Florida teams and think that 2 of Columbus, Pittsburgh, or Carolina should be in the new Central Division.'
I throw Pittsburgh in there so that it appears that the PA would be giving the League some options. Obviously, if the League went along with that, then it would be Columbus and Carolina being switched with the Florida teams.


Another issue here, and perhaps also a significant one for the PA, is still these unbalanced Conferences. Unbalanced Divisions can fairly easily be dealt with, and if the League had just positioned Columbus in the East then I think this would all be settled. But going from 8-8-7-7 to 14/16, I don't see how that addresses the PA's concerns.
The other side of that is though that if Detroit were left in the West then the 2 Conference scheduling structure continues to be a significant issue for an ETZ team in the Western Conference. So in the end, I think the PA will have to live with this East-West split as 14/16.

Finally though, the PA is certainly going to ask how this alignment will be dealt with if relocation or expansion tries to put a team in Quebec City. But to that, I think Daly has already commented: That situation will be dealt with in its time.


My other issue, and don't know if it would be a concern with the players, is that I don't like this scheduling matrix that has an uneven number of games between teams in the Division, as well as in the Conference. Those Seasonal series should be an even home-and-home. Competitive balance seems to be an issue with a lot of people on this board, but yet many of you seem not to be bothered by this particular imbalance.

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02-27-2013, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RusskiyHockey View Post
Why is the NHL so averse to simpler solutions? Why are they not considering something like:

West
PACIFIC - ANA,CAL,COL,EDM,LA,SJ,VAN + PHX or expansion like SEA
CENTRAL - CHI,CBJ,DAL,DET,MIN,NSH,STL,WPG

East
NORTHEAST - BOS,BUF,MTL,OTT,PIT,TOR + inevitable QUE franchise + GTA/HAM expansion
ATLANTIC - FLA,CAR,NJ,NYI,NYR,PHI,TB,WSH

There are no geographic overlaps here between any divisions and there are at least two powerhouses per division. With current teams, one of DET/CBJ can start in the Northeast so there is a 15/15 balance in the conferences. If Phoenix moves to the Northeast or if there is expansion in the Northeast, then DET/CBJ goes back West.
Sooo......Divisions of 8,8,8 and 6 teams makes MORE sense???

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02-27-2013, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Morris Wanchuk View Post
How can they justify everything being about standings in the division when teams in the same division don't play each other an equal amount of times (home, away, or at all) not play the conference an equal amount of times?

I should have been 6 vs the division, 4 vs your own conference, and 8 vs the other conference.

Stupid mickey mouse schedule.
The schedule as is currently doesn't have every team in a division have an equitable scedule so not sure how its any different. As is (in an 82 game sched) teams within the same division play teams in the other conference a different number of times. Some once some twice.

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02-27-2013, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MuckOG View Post
That's exactly it...Distance in miles isn't as important as crossing time zones.

And as far as the name of the Central division goes...The Cowboys play in the NFC East...it's only a name.
Both true. And IMO, the names of the Divisions are the best part of this alignment. Haha. I like those names. Now just make the membership of the new Central Divsion be more appropriate to its name.

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02-27-2013, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
The schedule as is currently doesn't have every team in a division have an equitable scedule so not sure how its any different. As is (in an 82 game sched) teams within the same division play teams in the other conference a different number of times. Some once some twice.
And that counts for what? A small percentage of the schedule. At least now they play in their division (6 games) and conference (4 games) the same amount of time.

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02-27-2013, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noldo View Post
I think that the League also wants to avoid repeating the mistake that southern markets are placed together in their own divison and thus despite the travel prefers to ha FLA & TB with established NE markets instead of groupin FLA, CAR, TB, NSH, DAL (& WAS + STL) into single "southern division".
I didn't realize that New York, Philadelphia, and Pittsburgh are southern markets.

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02-27-2013, 01:21 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuckOG View Post
That's exactly it...Distance in miles isn't as important as crossing time zones.

And as far as the name of the Central division goes...The Cowboys play in the NFC East...it's only a name.
Yeah but if you're gonna change the names, why do it to something geographic in nature if it doesn't make no sense. Dallas and Nashville aren't in the mid-west.

Why not Division A, B, C & D? Simple enough. The argument I've always heard for the geographical names was to aid the newer fan. As proposed the names just conffuse things

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