HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

the NEW YORK ISLANDERS!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-27-2013, 08:52 AM
  #26
misha1976
Registered User
 
misha1976's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Delhi, India
Posts: 147
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Modo View Post
Always had a soft spot for the Isles, kind of that "loveable loser" team that you can't help but feel for, year after year.

It's good to see that blue skies may be coming soon.
Yeah. Me too. I didn't get into hockey very much until a few years back, but as a Canadian kid I was by default into it. My dad watched it. I collected cards. This was the 80s and the Isles made impression.

Fast forward thirty years, I still have a sentimental attachment to them as opposed to other recently bad teams. I want them to be contenders.

misha1976 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 09:12 AM
  #27
Hipster Doofus
Registered User
 
Hipster Doofus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 6,398
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MapleLeafs9 View Post
IMO They're poorly coached. They have a lot of talent on that team and to see them not do well year after year is just, ugh.
Their special teams have been very good, and ever since Weight took over their PP has been one of the better coached in the NHL, running a variety of plays he keeps in 300+ page binder. 5 on 5 its been an issue, but their PK (when Nielsen and Grabner are teh to unit) and PP are very disciplined and run a tight system. If the Isles bring in a new coach, I'd hope atleast Doug Weight was retained.

Biggest issues is ownership, but Wang is preparing to sell (a 75m loan is due after next season, so tick tock...) so that should change soon. Isles will also have 35m+ in revenue from the Barclay's center's seats alone. So financially they'll be in a good place when you combine that with their 25m a year cable deal that begins ramping up to 36m at its conclusion in 2020something for whoever takes over.

Management is mostly tied up by Wang. Wang made the decison to sign Yashin and DP to lifetime deals against the advice of the NHL and his GM's. Garth has no budget tow ork with on or off the ice. Until that changes its not really fair to blame Snow. The Isles have done very well in the draft and finding bargain bin deals, I think Snow has done a much better job than some other rebuilding GM's.

They are anywhere from being able to contend next season to having to wait another 1-2 maybe 3 years. Isles are waiting on Strome or Nelson to take over a top 6 center spot and will need to get more out of Okposo or wait on other young wingers to take over. Nabakov has been solid, and should be resigned. The defense is mobile, would prefer another Hamonic type (mobile, do it all physical d-man), but who wouldn't? Ideally Wang sells this offseason, we sign a top 6 RH RW, get a stop gap center whose better than Reasoner and Kieth Aucoin, and retain Viz and Streit.

The skeleton of the team
Moulson-Tavares-xxx
Grabner-Nielsen-xxx
Martin-Cizikas-McDonald (really like this line, forechecks hard and puts up some points)

Other guys: Okposo, Bailey, Ullstrom, Boyes. Maybe two of these guys can be retained, but Isles need to bring some outside talent thats good

It also helps when you have a guy whose one of the top 5 players in the game.


Last edited by Hipster Doofus: 02-27-2013 at 09:21 AM.
Hipster Doofus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 09:15 AM
  #28
startainfection
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Long Island
Posts: 5,895
vCash: 500
i was going to say this year and by the way they play on the road i would've been right but 2 and 9 at home is absolutely ridiculous, i think more ridiculous that the black hawks current streak

startainfection is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 11:03 AM
  #29
canuckthug16
that's curtains!
 
canuckthug16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Country: Canada
Posts: 367
vCash: 500
You guys need to utilize Nino better. Don't think hes gettin a fair shake and could see him gettin moved. I love the recent demotion of Dipietro. The team is headed in the right direction, slowly but surely.

The chemistry between Johnny T and Matt Moulson is top notch.

canuckthug16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 11:13 AM
  #30
lboogie42*
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 4,746
vCash: 500
if the isles can get someone other then JT to carry the team, as well as get that goalie situation settled(cant rely on nabakov every game, considering hes prolly gonna retire soon as well) then they will be a contender.

lboogie42* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 11:21 AM
  #31
Homeland Security
Mod Supervisor
#beLIeve
 
Homeland Security's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NY/FL
Country: United States
Posts: 14,162
vCash: 500
Isles need:

NEW OWNER

New Coach

and other pieces.

I don't even blame Snow at this point. He's been so handcuffed (in terms of $$$), I would give the opportunity with a real owner who lets him spend money and then judge whether he can sink or swim as a GM.

__________________
Homeland Security is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 11:23 AM
  #32
Dicky113
Registered User
 
Dicky113's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,517
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Riseonfire View Post
This has been a weird year for the Islanders. At time we truly look like a playoff team, and others it looks like the same old islanders.

We need a new coach more than anything, and consistent play from the young guys.

There will be a lot of change next season I'm thinking. Nelson, Nino and Strome are all going to be pushing for Okposo, Nielsen and Bailey's spots on the roster.

I say in 2 years time we'll be a playoff team (provided we have a solid goaltending option).

Moulson - JT - Nino
Grabner - Nelson - Strome
Okposo - Nielsen - Bailey
Martin - Cizikas - Ullstrom
Seems like you nailed the problem right here. These are young, high draft picks that should be emerging as first line talent, not being "pushed out" by the next wave already. Obviously scouting/drafting has been aweful if this is truly the case. HArd to rebuild under those circumstances.

Dicky113 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 11:29 AM
  #33
Kevin27nyi
Global Moderator
Captain Tavares
 
Kevin27nyi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 9,058
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homeland Security View Post
Isles need:

NEW OWNER

New Coach

and other pieces.

I don't even blame Snow at this point. He's been so handcuffed (in terms of $$$), I would give the opportunity with a real owner who lets him spend money and then judge whether he can sink or swim as a GM.
Wang sees the team and tells Snow to make a trade. A second line center? Nope, a goalie who won't be paid or used other than his 5 million cap hit.

Kevin27nyi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 11:30 AM
  #34
Ghost Of Palffy
Rookie User
 
Ghost Of Palffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Boston/New York
Posts: 64
vCash: 500
They have a nice Jekyll and Hide routine going this season. Some games they look great and other games they look like pure ****. My guess is they will end the season around .500 or a few games below it.

Most disappointing part of the season so far has definitely been the regression of Kyle Okposo. Guy needs to get his game back.

Ghost Of Palffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 11:36 AM
  #35
TheRightWay
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,487
vCash: 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dicky113 View Post
Seems like you nailed the problem right here. These are young, high draft picks that should be emerging as first line talent, not being "pushed out" by the next wave already. Obviously scouting/drafting has been aweful if this is truly the case. HArd to rebuild under those circumstances.
Yeah, that's the irony of the situation. Some people insist the Islanders will be fine because they have a lot of talent in their prospect pool. Yet Okposo, Bailey, Poulin/Koskinen/Nilsson, Comeau, Trivino, Joensuu, Ness, etc. were the group of guys who supposedly gave the Islanders a bright future and would make then contenders. I think the prospect pool right now is a bit better than it was maybe three years ago but none of Reinhart, Strome, Nelson, etc. are locks to even make the NHL, let alone be impact players. People have a short-term memory.

TheRightWay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 11:37 AM
  #36
Hit the search party
Registered User
 
Hit the search party's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 644
vCash: 500
i'd like to know why grabner is playing 3rd line minutes????
seems silly to me, every pk he was out there he was generating chances

Hit the search party is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 11:41 AM
  #37
Dubi Doo
Registered User
 
Dubi Doo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Rochester, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,327
vCash: 2225
They need secondary scoring, defensive help, and goaltending. They have some strong pieces in place, though. Tavares can bring that team some serious success if they build around him. I'm not sure their management is capable of that.

Dubi Doo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 12:29 PM
  #38
OpAck
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Raleigh, NC
Country: United States
Posts: 3,234
vCash: 500
It is a tough situation for an Isles fan.

On one hand, Charles Wang has been a very involved owner who has been too involved in the day to day operations. He has also tried to do things a bit unconventional (committee-run ownership, career long player contracts, giving the GM job to the backup goalie, etc). For the most part, his unconventional approach has not been smart sports management decisions and the organization has only come off as a bit of a circus atmosphere.

On the other hand, without Charles Wang stepping in and wasting a few hundred million dollars over the 13 years he's owned the team...the franchise would have probably relocated to Kansas City or Portland or Seattle or Las Vegas 8-12 years ago.

Clearly, it's a tough spot for Isles fans.

I'll look at the positives though...had Wang not agreed to have the team undergo a lengthy rebuild process and instead continue to order Garth Snow to pluck the UFA leftovers like Mike Comrie, Mariusz Czerkawski, and Bryan Berard and watch us continue being an 8-12 in the East team...we'd today be hearing about Tampa Bay Lightning star center John Tavares. All the while, we'd be whining right now about how it appears our 1st line center, Jason Arnott, doesn't have anything left in the tank and why we would ever consider bringing the near 40-year old Jason Blake back.

Another positive...I think Wang has learned his lesson with regards to the career contracts. And I was a fan of the Yashin contract originally. 10 year deal for a 27-year old, former Hart Trophy nominee...long, but not terrible (until of course Yashin's play declined significantly). DiPietro's was a huge risk and hasn't worked out at all. But notice as these young guys like Tavares have expiring ELCs...there was no longer any talk about dishing 10+ year deals with massive amounts of money being tossed around. In fact, the contracts that they've given to alot of these young guys...are actually pretty fair and under good terms and length. This includes Tavares, Nielsen, MacDonald, Grabner, Moulson, etc. It's proof that these guys like the culture in the locker room and they know they're close to becoming a very competitive team.

It's just that...it's becoming more of a time-consuming process than we ever imagined. And the organization is not doing anything to speed the process along. But yes, contrary to what some in the organization claim to say, I do believe Wang is looking to sell a majority stake in the team...and with this new ownership in Brooklyn...with Tavares as THE key piece to build around...I think there's still a light at the end of the loooooooooooong tunnel, and we're almost there.

OpAck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 12:37 PM
  #39
Chardo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 1,738
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
Exactly. I don't fault Snow for anything..he's doing the best he can with a cheap owner.

The moment NYI get an actual owner who loves the game, we'll see them playing a lot better..

Wang is very cheap...even the coach he's hired is not that good but he's probably makes less than all the other coaches.

Wang is cheap because he doesn't have the cash flow to spend. The team loses millions every year with their horrible arena and lease deal. For years, Wang got nothing from concessions or parking (he now gets some after deal was modified), and there are not enough suites to make any profit. This situation should be alleviated by their new arena. In the past, he has spent plenty on veterans (see Yashin, DiPietro, Peca, Satan, Witt, etc.). With the new arena, the cash flow will be there to expand the payroll. This is also why all their recent signings (and offers, like Ehrhoff) have been back loaded--to defer actual salary to the years with better cash flow.

In two years, they will have the cash flow to spend for good players (and the new location to attract them), their top prospects will presumedly be ready to make an impact, and their star player will be one of the best in the league. I fully expect Wang to resume spending like he did a decade ago. This stuff about selling because he has a loan coming due is ridiculous. He'll just refinance.

Chardo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 12:39 PM
  #40
Chardo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 1,738
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brunomics View Post
It's all on Charles Wang. That piece of **** has lap dog Snow build teams on the cheap and always tries to circumvent the cap floor. Hell even look at their management structure... its bare bones. Show me another organization that does that.

If he had a decent gm and spent a little bit of money to bring in the right vets to fill holes this team would be light years better. Right now it's kids, waiver wire carp, and Nabby.

And Nabby himself was waiver wire crap

Chardo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 12:41 PM
  #41
TheRightWay
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,487
vCash: 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chardo View Post
Wang is cheap because he doesn't have the cash flow to spend. The team loses millions every year with their horrible arena and lease deal. For years, Wang got nothing from concessions or parking (he now gets some after deal was modified), and there are not enough suites to make any profit. This situation should be alleviated by their new arena. In the past, he has spent plenty on veterans (see Yashin, DiPietro, Peca, Satan, Witt, etc.). With the new arena, the cash flow will be there to expand the payroll. This is also why all their recent signings (and offers, like Ehrhoff) have been back loaded--to defer actual salary to the years with better cash flow.

In two years, they will have the cash flow to spend for good players (and the new location to attract them), their top prospects will presumedly be ready to make an impact, and their star player will be one of the best in the league. I fully expect Wang to resume spending like he did a decade ago. This stuff about selling because he has a loan coming due is ridiculous. He'll just refinance.
And yet he somehow found enough money in between the cushions of his couch to give expensive, lengthy contracts to DiPietro and Yashin.

Obviously the Islanders are not a rich team, but it's not that there is no money to spend; it's that they did a ****** job of prioritizing and committed a significant chunk of a decade's worth of funds on two undeserving players.

TheRightWay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 12:43 PM
  #42
WangMustGo
NYI
 
WangMustGo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Long Island
Posts: 3,777
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dicky113 View Post
Seems like you nailed the problem right here. These are young, high draft picks that should be emerging as first line talent, not being "pushed out" by the next wave already. Obviously scouting/drafting has been aweful if this is truly the case. HArd to rebuild under those circumstances.
Its not the drafting that is the problem. It is the development. Bailey and Okposo have a lot of skill, and have shown promise at times, than they disappear for long stretches. Okposo looked like a future star his first couple years in the league, than he got a concussion from Phaneuf, after that he got a bad shoulder injury that cost him over half of a season, and he hasn't been the same player since. He looks awful so far this year. Bailey in my opinion has potential to be a very good player. He is very sound defensively, and he doesn't have much support offensively in the bottom six. I see him as a 40-50 point solid 2 way player.

Nielsen is a very good 2 way player, and he is great in the shootouts. However he needs to be centering the third line, he is not a top 6 forward, and that has been a hole he has been forced to fill for a couple of years now. If Nelson/Strome/UFA can fill the second line center role, and put up 50-60 points we can move Nielsen down to the third line, and our bottom 6 would be much improved.

Capuano has to go, he has not done anything to improve this team, outside of Hamonic, Grabner, and Tavares no one has improved, and guys like Okposo have really regressed.

The Islanders desperately need a good second line center, atleast 1 first line winger, a starting goaltender for the future, and a couple good defensemen. The problem is they rush their prospects and dont spend money on the team. So how could they find these assets? The only way they will improve is with a new owner... or a miracle.

WangMustGo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 12:49 PM
  #43
Hipster Doofus
Registered User
 
Hipster Doofus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 6,398
vCash: 500
They make 25m a year on their cable deal and it begins to ramp up to 36m by its conclusion do Spano's extension of the original deal. Isles biggest problems is loans coming to due from past debts. Wang thought he'd make his money back by getting the development righst to the HUB. Nassau said no. Barclays move makes them that much more solvent (35m alone from luxury boxes), and most of the outstanding debts would be paid off in the inititial acquisition. Isles will be in pretty good shape going forward.

Also to consider, while the cable deal ramps up, its no longer the best deal in sports. If a few years down the road it falls to market value or below, and the Isles are otherwise competitive, they'll have many attractive options to shop around their rights to between YES and SNY.

The Isle sbets hope is Wang finds a buyer who can payoff the debts and such. With the Isles being the only potential big 4 pro team available for a very long time in the NYC market, I expect there to be a few who will bite. Repole has billions in cash he's been sitting on waiting for a real chance to bid for a team, and has specifically said he'd bid on the Isles if they were for sale. Nelson Peltz tried to purchase the Devils, he's extremely solvent and a die-hard hockey fan. Bruce Ratner is a candidate to become a minority owner like he did with the Nets (and given that he's sold off shares in Barclays, Nets, and stepped down from Forest City Dev Group to focus on Nassau Colliseum project, he's got cash freed up and time). Also Pat LaFontaine has been long rumored to be trying to drum up interest from various investors so he can purchase the team.

Hipster Doofus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 01:07 PM
  #44
redbull
Expect more
 
redbull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,574
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MapleLeafs9 View Post
IMO They're poorly coached. They have a lot of talent on that team and to see them not do well year after year is just, ugh.
is that you Randy Carlyle ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen23 View Post
That's the thing. Just as an example, everyone assumes the Oilers will automatically be a contender, when the Islanders have had top 5 picks the last few years and have not really progressed to the level they had hoped. Granted they are in a much more difficult division. It just shows that you need time, coaching and development in order to make that next step.
Only Tavares is on the team though. Strome, Niederreiter, deHaan, Nelson, Reinhart - they will transform this team once (IF IF IF) the develop. The Oilers have all their picks playing together in the NHL. They are far too young and raw but no doubt they will improve.

Both teams need consistency, structure, coaching and leadership....much of that will come with time and experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hit the search party View Post
i'd like to know why grabner is playing 3rd line minutes????
seems silly to me, every pk he was out there he was generating chances
Grabner is terrible unless he's on a breakaway. But he gets 3-4 each game, scores about every 10 breakaways but I don't think he's ever scored another way. He's been much better this year, at least early in the year, but he's a very flawed player still.

Though, he's exciting to watch when he's got open ice. Fastest player I've ever seen. Yes, faster than Bure and Helm and Greening and Hagelin - much more explosive.

redbull is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 01:33 PM
  #45
Brooklyndevil
82nd Airborne
 
Brooklyndevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Brooklyn, NY USA
Country: United States
Posts: 14,910
vCash: 500
Once they get new ownership that's willing to spend and a good coach, which both of those items won't happen until they move, they'll be a lot better. And Seth Jones wouldn't hurt either.

Brooklyndevil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 02:02 PM
  #46
C77
Registered User
 
C77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Junior's Farm
Country: United States
Posts: 12,872
vCash: 500
The Islanders are a one-line team and their defense is terrible.

Tavares is outstanding though.

C77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 02:10 PM
  #47
Parise9Crosby87
Registered User
 
Parise9Crosby87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: boca raton florida
Country: United States
Posts: 2,517
vCash: 500
i would say 2-3 years they need a new coach

Parise9Crosby87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 02:13 PM
  #48
LolClarkson*
Canucks 4 the cup
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Embrace the hate
Posts: 6,695
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WonderTwinsUnite View Post
They suck. JT, De Haan, Hamonic, Moulson, Streit are the exception.
Grabner is good.

LolClarkson* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 02:25 PM
  #49
Bert Marshall days
Registered User
 
Bert Marshall days's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 3,767
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hipster Doofus View Post
Their special teams have been very good, and ever since Weight took over their PP has been one of the better coached in the NHL, running a variety of plays he keeps in 300+ page binder. 5 on 5 its been an issue, but their PK (when Nielsen and Grabner are teh to unit) and PP are very disciplined and run a tight system. If the Isles bring in a new coach, I'd hope atleast Doug Weight was retained.

Biggest issues is ownership, but Wang is preparing to sell (a 75m loan is due after next season, so tick tock...) so that should change soon. Isles will also have 35m+ in revenue from the Barclay's center's seats alone. So financially they'll be in a good place when you combine that with their 25m a year cable deal that begins ramping up to 36m at its conclusion in 2020something for whoever takes over.

Management is mostly tied up by Wang. Wang made the decison to sign Yashin and DP to lifetime deals against the advice of the NHL and his GM's. Garth has no budget tow ork with on or off the ice. Until that changes its not really fair to blame Snow. The Isles have done very well in the draft and finding bargain bin deals, I think Snow has done a much better job than some other rebuilding GM's.

They are anywhere from being able to contend next season to having to wait another 1-2 maybe 3 years. Isles are waiting on Strome or Nelson to take over a top 6 center spot and will need to get more out of Okposo or wait on other young wingers to take over. Nabakov has been solid, and should be resigned. The defense is mobile, would prefer another Hamonic type (mobile, do it all physical d-man), but who wouldn't? Ideally Wang sells this offseason, we sign a top 6 RH RW, get a stop gap center whose better than Reasoner and Kieth Aucoin, and retain Viz and Streit.

The skeleton of the team
Moulson-Tavares-xxx
Grabner-Nielsen-xxx
Martin-Cizikas-McDonald (really like this line, forechecks hard and puts up some points)

Other guys: Okposo, Bailey, Ullstrom, Boyes. Maybe two of these guys can be retained, but Isles need to bring some outside talent thats good

It also helps when you have a guy whose one of the top 5 players in the game.
Actually, Forbes now says it's $40 million in revenue by going to Brooklyn.


http://www.forbes.com/teams/new-york-islanders/

Bert Marshall days is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-27-2013, 02:26 PM
  #50
triggrman
HFBoards Sponsor
 
triggrman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Nashville
Country: United States
Posts: 16,704
vCash: 500
I know defensively, they looked bad last night. I don't watch many games from the East but Boston sure had a ton of room to skate.

triggrman is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:56 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.