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The Inevitable trade of Yannick Weber

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02-27-2013, 10:06 AM
  #26
Kriss E
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I discussed this before. I really feel bad for the kid. His development is going backwards.
I disagree with us not having a spot for him on our current D squad. We could have used an alternate system, with Bouillon or even Emelin being scratched.
And the very worst, we could have scratched Armstrong and dressed 7 Dman. At least we could have two actual defensive pairing on the PP that way with Markov-Diaz-PK-Weber. No need for Bouillon or Gorges to play on the PP where they absolutely suck.

I think keeping a young prospect that will be part of the NHL in the press box is just stupid.
I'm not saying he should have a regular spot. But there's no reason for him to just have played 1 game at this point.

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02-27-2013, 10:08 AM
  #27
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Injuries on defence will occur soon enough (especially during playoff hockey) and we will be really lucky to count on Weber or Kaberle to an extent to come in as #6 defencemen. I just hope they each get a handfull of games in before the end of the season to keep them sharp.

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02-27-2013, 10:11 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
He has a shot from the point, but only when it is perfect, or he just passes it back. There are guys like that on every roster, and every farm team.
I disagree with you.
Weber looked pretty decent when he was paired next to Hamrlik two years ago.
Last year, a lot of players struggled, and he was juggled around. Very few players were properly used last season since RC took over. I wouldn't put too much emphasis on that year. This year he played 1 game.

You give him a strong veteran to play next to and he'll improve. He is a bottom pairing/PP specialist.

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02-27-2013, 10:13 AM
  #29
Blind Gardien
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I'd just keep him around as long as his attitude is fine, basically. I don't expect any offers on him that are worth more than his default value as the 7th/8th D. I don't feel an urge to collect more 3rd round picks. We still need depth on D. And will need it just a bit more when Kaberle is gone - whether that's in a trade this year, or from the buyout this summer. Either way, Weber is an asset in hand.

And IMHO he has shown he is capable of playing in the NHL. Not at a high level, and I'm not really high on his upside either. But still. Every NHL team, even some really good ones, end up patching borderline guys in when injuries mount. Weber represents a reasonable patch on Subban/Diaz/Markov in the event of injury. Of course he looks totally redundant with Kaberle still around. But that won't last. We have 5D pencilled in for next year's team. We'll get a 6th from within or without. Weber will still represent a reasonable #7 for me, cheap, young.

But it depends to some extent on his attitude too. If he's not sulking over his lack of playing, if he's not thinking about taking off to Switzerland, etc, then that's in his favour. If he really wants out, that's different. I'll take the 3rd-5th rounder before scaring him back to the Swiss league. But I'd rather keep him than take the draft pick. For 1 more year, anyway. Tinordi is probably ready to be the patch guy for the Gorges/Emelin/BouillonX portion of our D lineup next year, while still playing big minutes in Hamilton. Weber is fine as the patch guy for the other half. And Beaulieu can dominate and play big minutes for another year in Hamilton too in the meantime. So Weber as the #7 next year is optimal for me. 1-year deal.

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02-27-2013, 10:15 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I discussed this before. I really feel bad for the kid. His development is going backwards.
I disagree with us not having a spot for him on our current D squad. We could have used an alternate system, with Bouillon or even Emelin being scratched.
And the very worst, we could have scratched Armstrong and dressed 7 Dman. At least we could have two actual defensive pairing on the PP that way with Markov-Diaz-PK-Weber. No need for Bouillon or Gorges to play on the PP where they absolutely suck.

I think keeping a young prospect that will be part of the NHL in the press box is just stupid.
I'm not saying he should have a regular spot. But there's no reason for him to just have played 1 game at this point.
Sucks for him because he's never complained, but like the OP said, Diaz and him have comparable styles, and Diaz is obviously a much better player. The only reason they would dress him would be because of injuries, or if the PP is struggling bad. Unfortunately for him, Kaberle would still get the nod over him in both cases. And if there are more prolonged injuries, I could see Tinordi or Beaulieu getting a shot first because they are the future.

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02-27-2013, 10:28 AM
  #31
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
Sucks for him because he's never complained, but like the OP said, Diaz and him have comparable styles, and Diaz is obviously a much better player. The only reason they would dress him would be because of injuries, or if the PP is struggling bad. Unfortunately for him, Kaberle would still get the nod over him in both cases. And if there are more prolonged injuries, I could see Tinordi or Beaulieu getting a shot first because they are the future.
If Weber is behind Kaberle, Tinordi and Beaulieu, what the heck is the point in keeping him? And if he's so far down the ladder, why do you want to hold on to him? Makes no sense. A guy so far behind won't attract anything, so might as well send him down, even if it means him going through waivers.

I disagree with your opinion of the kid. I think he's ahead of Kaberle, not sure why Kaby would be ahead of him.

And again, someone like Amrstrong, has contributed very little so far. We could easily scratch him and give Weber a chance.

There's no reason to have kept him out so much. It's like we have no interest in him. If that's the case, then do the kid a favor and move him out. If it's not, then make him play a game once in a while..

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02-27-2013, 10:34 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
If Weber is behind Kaberle, Tinordi and Beaulieu, what the heck is the point in keeping him? And if he's so far down the ladder, why do you want to hold on to him? Makes no sense. A guy so far behind won't attract anything, so might as well send him down, even if it means him going through waivers.

I disagree with your opinion of the kid. I think he's ahead of Kaberle, not sure why Kaby would be ahead of him.

And again, someone like Amrstrong, has contributed very little so far. We could easily scratch him and give Weber a chance.

There's no reason to have kept him out so much. It's like we have no interest in him. If that's the case, then do the kid a favor and move him out. If it's not, then make him play a game once in a while..
He's not behind Beaulieu and Tinordi right now.

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02-27-2013, 10:38 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
If Weber is behind Kaberle, Tinordi and Beaulieu, what the heck is the point in keeping him? And if he's so far down the ladder, why do you want to hold on to him? Makes no sense. A guy so far behind won't attract anything, so might as well send him down, even if it means him going through waivers.

I disagree with your opinion of the kid. I think he's ahead of Kaberle, not sure why Kaby would be ahead of him.

And again, someone like Amrstrong, has contributed very little so far. We could easily scratch him and give Weber a chance.

There's no reason to have kept him out so much. It's like we have no interest in him. If that's the case, then do the kid a favor and move him out. If it's not, then make him play a game once in a while..
It's certainly not MY belief that he's behind Kaberle, I just feel that's how Therrien and the organization look at it.

Weber is also better than Tinordi and Beaulieu as of now, but it's pretty evident he has no future with the team. That's why I predict that if it ever came to it, they'd prefer giving the kids a shot.

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02-27-2013, 10:47 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I discussed this before. I really feel bad for the kid. His development is going backwards.
I disagree with us not having a spot for him on our current D squad. We could have used an alternate system, with Bouillon or even Emelin being scratched.
And the very worst, we could have scratched Armstrong and dressed 7 Dman. At least we could have two actual defensive pairing on the PP that way with Markov-Diaz-PK-Weber. No need for Bouillon or Gorges to play on the PP where they absolutely suck.

I think keeping a young prospect that will be part of the NHL in the press box is just stupid.
I'm not saying he should have a regular spot. But there's no reason for him to just have played 1 game at this point.
Interesting point, actually. Given that Colby has had his 20 games and has proved ZERO, perhaps having Weber on the fourth line RW, being good defensively with some limited offence as well, would be an upgrade.

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02-27-2013, 11:07 AM
  #35
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I'm not sure we trade Weber. I mean if there's an injury to any of our defenseman, do you really want to have Kaberle as your fill in?

Unless we get something fairly good i.e. a solid defensive d or a high draft pick, I'd sit on him until at least the deadline and hope for injuries on other teams to try to maximize returns.

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02-27-2013, 11:11 AM
  #36
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IMO, Weber isn't really good. Lacks the skating to get by as a smaller dman. He'd be really good if he were a couple inches taller though, as he is pretty balanced. I hope some team offers a nice pick for him, but I'm not banking on it. Sucks, seems like a nice guy, from what I've seen, he gets along with everyone.

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02-27-2013, 11:29 AM
  #37
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I have zero interest getting a pick for Weber. Ideally, you try and get a young player of similar talent in a similar position(being benched) or a young player who can be put in hamilton. A nice 3rd line forward would be ideal. Someone to keep longer term than say armstrong.

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02-27-2013, 11:43 AM
  #38
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many are saying to keep him sitting out UNTIL someone gets injured. Not sure if thats the right message and strategy for a kid who is trying to establish his career and who should have played at least 10-15 by now. he isnt some overpaid 30 somethin vet

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02-27-2013, 11:55 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
I have zero interest getting a pick for Weber. Ideally, you try and get a young player of similar talent in a similar position(being benched) or a young player who can be put in hamilton. A nice 3rd line forward would be ideal. Someone to keep longer term than say armstrong.
I'd rather let Timmons do his thing. But you're idea not far behind imo, and probably more realistic as well.

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02-27-2013, 11:57 AM
  #40
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I'd rather let Timmons do his thing. But you're idea not far behind imo, and probably more realistic as well.
Yah but you know we'd sell low on weber. Guy isn't being showcased. Might as well get similar player in a position of need. Perhaps a physical young bottom 6 forward? Otherwise trading weber for a 4th rounder or something is pointless as we'll turn around and pay a 2nd or 3rd for a rental depth afterwards.

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02-27-2013, 12:25 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Yah but you know we'd sell low on weber. Guy isn't being showcased. Might as well get similar player in a position of need. Perhaps a physical young bottom 6 forward? Otherwise trading weber for a 4th rounder or something is pointless as we'll turn around and pay a 2nd or 3rd for a rental depth afterwards.
True that.

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02-27-2013, 12:56 PM
  #42
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No he doesn't need to but does he have the moral obligation?

He's basically taking a player in the prime of his career (early stages) and putting his development on HOLD.

It's one thing to play one game every three, it's completely a different scenario when he's going to play a prorated 4 games in a 82 game schedule.
This is a business, not a charity. There isn't such thing as a moral obligation. The fact of the matter is, if Weber wants to play in the NHL, he's gotta ride the bench, that's how it is. He doesn't exactly have the leverage or value to demand a trade. I'm sure that Bergevin is well aware of the Weber situation, and he's going to do what's best for the organization, not what's best for Weber. If a solid offer is out there, he'll take it, if not, then he's far more valuable as a serviceable 8th defenseman than he is as some useless dump.


To answer pretty much every one of your posts in this thread, Weber is literally the most irrelevant player on the team. The only message he's sending is "if you're a fringe NHLer with little to no value to this franchise, that's your problem, not ours".

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02-27-2013, 01:50 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by coolasprICE View Post
No he doesn't need to but does he have the moral obligation?

He's basically taking a player in the prime of his career (early stages) and putting his development on HOLD.

It's one thing to play one game every three, it's completely a different scenario when he's going to play a prorated 4 games in a 82 game schedule.
No moral obligation whatsoever.

Weber first signed a contract, then played himself out of the lineup last season.

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02-27-2013, 02:04 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by InglewoodJack View Post
This is a business, not a charity. There isn't such thing as a moral obligation. The fact of the matter is, if Weber wants to play in the NHL, he's gotta ride the bench, that's how it is. He doesn't exactly have the leverage or value to demand a trade. I'm sure that Bergevin is well aware of the Weber situation, and he's going to do what's best for the organization, not what's best for Weber. If a solid offer is out there, he'll take it, if not, then he's far more valuable as a serviceable 8th defenseman than he is as some useless dump.


To answer pretty much every one of your posts in this thread, Weber is literally the most irrelevant player on the team. The only message he's sending is "if you're a fringe NHLer with little to no value to this franchise, that's your problem, not ours".
if MB views Weber as having little/no value to the franchise, he'd be making the same idiotic mistake we made over and over again under the previous regime.

Just because a player, especially a young player, struggles to make a lineup today, doesn't mean he should be treated as "irrelevant".

That's a great way to waste assets and diminish one of the organizations greatest strengths... drafting NHL talent.

Weber will get his shot, at some point be it with us or with someone else, and it's in the organization's best interest to make sure that as an asset, we get as much out of him as we can.

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02-27-2013, 02:15 PM
  #45
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if MB views Weber as having little/no value to the franchise, he'd be making the same idiotic mistake we made over and over again under the previous regime.
The thing is -- he has so much value, that there is 7 guys ahead of him on the depth chart. Probably 8 to be honest.

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02-27-2013, 02:28 PM
  #46
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if MB views Weber as having little/no value to the franchise, he'd be making the same idiotic mistake we made over and over again under the previous regime.

Just because a player, especially a young player, struggles to make a lineup today, doesn't mean he should be treated as "irrelevant".

That's a great way to waste assets and diminish one of the organizations greatest strengths... drafting NHL talent.

Weber will get his shot, at some point be it with us or with someone else, and it's in the organization's best interest to make sure that as an asset, we get as much out of him as we can.
What assets is he wasting? At best, Weber will become a bottom pairing defenseman. He's not someone who has a load of potential, so what exactly is MB losing by getting him ride the bench? There are 7 better defensemen on a team that's competitive enough to not be able to risk putting in some scrub just for the sake of it.

You're definitely right about Weber getting his shot, he is an NHL-quality player. Whether it's with us, which I don't think will happen or with someone else, my point is that there's really no point in trading him unless there's a good offer, and there's no point playing him when there's better players on the team, and far more valuable defensemen who'll be with the team in the next few seasons.

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02-27-2013, 02:36 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
The thing is -- he has so much value, that there is 7 guys ahead of him on the depth chart. Probably 8 to be honest.
and there are 12-13 guys ahead of Leblanc... does that make him irrelevant or without value?

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02-27-2013, 02:38 PM
  #48
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and there are 12-13 guys ahead of Leblanc... does that make him irrelevant or without value?
Leblanc is a recent first round draft choice with loads of upside. Weber is not.

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02-27-2013, 02:42 PM
  #49
Miller Time
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Originally Posted by InglewoodJack View Post
What assets is he wasting? At best, Weber will become a bottom pairing defenseman. He's not someone who has a load of potential, so what exactly is MB losing by getting him ride the bench? There are 7 better defensemen on a team that's competitive enough to not be able to risk putting in some scrub just for the sake of it.

You're definitely right about Weber getting his shot, he is an NHL-quality player. Whether it's with us, which I don't think will happen or with someone else, my point is that there's really no point in trading him unless there's a good offer, and there's no point playing him when there's better players on the team, and far more valuable defensemen who'll be with the team in the next few seasons.
right now he hasn't wasted anything... let's hope it stays that way.

completely disagree about your opinion of Weber's ceiling. Based on his play in the AHL, NHL, Swiss elite league (where he was as good as Diaz this year, despite being 3-years younger... or put differently, better than Diaz was at the same age, in a year where the league was stocked with NHL talent) & internationally, I'd argue that he has top-4 potential.

people seem to forget that it often takes dmen until their mid-20's to really establish themselves as NHLers. Weber is already one of the leading Dmen from his draft year in terms of games played/points, and that's without yet having earned/been given a regular roster spot (last year he played a lot, but was juggled btw defense/fwd... not a great way to help a young dman establish himself).

I've got no issue with him not getting into the lineup right now, my only point is that this does not mean he's "irrelevent" or "without value".

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02-27-2013, 02:46 PM
  #50
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If we're not going to play him, send him to Winnipeg for Carl Klingberg.

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