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Getting Kronwalled

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Old
02-27-2013, 10:00 AM
  #276
AndyPipkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love View Post
Are people actually defending Kronwall's hits on Voracek and Havlat??? Whether he left his feet or not isnt the problem. The problem is that they were headshots.

Cant believe some are defending such a disgusting plays and I have no idea how the hell he wasnt suspended for it.
Those are still allowed under the rules, so not sure what to say here.

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02-27-2013, 10:14 AM
  #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon View Post
Not a single one of these photos shows the point of impact. You are trying to set some kind of record here for number of irrelevant images.
The Kesler one does. Kronwall's head is forward in #1 but snaps back in #2. The point of impact is between #1 and #2. His feet are off the ice the whole time.



Last edited by TMI: 02-27-2013 at 10:44 AM. Reason: flaming
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02-27-2013, 10:16 AM
  #278
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The team he plays for is the only reason Kronwall hasn't been suspended for his dirty hits.

Just as Malkin got nothing for this end of game instigator.
Just as Hossa got only a 5, not a 5 and a game, for his boarding late in game 5 against Nashville in 2010.
etc.

Favored teams like the Wings, Hawks, and Penguins can get away with more.


If Kronwall were on Columbus it would be a very different story.
That jumping hit on Kesler could've been 5 games. That jumping elbow on Ryan Carter could've been another 5 games.

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02-27-2013, 10:18 AM
  #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oni View Post
And that is totally not how physics works.

I think the problem here is that people fundamentally believe that two people skating together will bounce into the air when they hit.

This not true. Unless:

The hitter or hitee had upward momentum before the hit (the hitees are all moving horizontally when they get hit, usually getting caught without seeing the hit coming)
The hiter or hittee provides upward force during the hit (where they would both go up in the air, or the "other one" would go up in the air)

The hitter along is NOT going to go up into the air all on their own due to "physics". The fact that Kronwall is going up in the air, and the hittee generally is not, is clearly an indicator that Kronwall is jumping. I get that half the people on this board think pool balls fly off the table when they collide, which is why this topic is going nowhere.

Once you understand the basics of collisions / momentum etc, its pretty clear Kronwall is jumping on all these hits and "physics" isn't magically making him float into the air. The idea that he always times these jumps to happen right before contact is crazy.

I promise you that if Kronwall or anyone hits someone like a train without any upward momentum at all you will see skates in the air. Try to get out watching hockey, you might learn something about physics and perhaps hockey too.


Last edited by TMI: 02-27-2013 at 10:45 AM.
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Old
02-27-2013, 10:19 AM
  #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love View Post
Are people actually defending Kronwall's hits on Voracek and Havlat??? Whether he left his feet or not isnt the problem. The problem is that they were headshots.

Cant believe some are defending such a disgusting plays and I have no idea how the hell he wasnt suspended for it.
Eh, even Voracek was defending Kronwall after the hit.

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02-27-2013, 10:36 AM
  #281
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Originally Posted by newfy View Post
Its not an indicator hes jumping though is the problem. Its an indicator that hes thrusting upward.
Thrusting upward now eh....

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02-27-2013, 10:37 AM
  #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertKron View Post
Kronwall wouldn't stand up for himself, so Hudler ended up paying for it:

So you know for a fact that Mike Brown would not have thrown that big hit if Kronwall had fought after throwing his?

Those who advocating fighting after every big hit seem to do a spectacular job of confusing correlation for causation.

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02-27-2013, 10:39 AM
  #283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Overseer View Post
The Kesler one does. Kronwall's head is forward in #1 but snaps back in #2. The point of impact is between #1 and #2. His feet are off the ice the whole time.



Stop being intentionally obtuse.
And notice how Kronwalls helmet is on normally in the first pic but is whip-lashed back in the following 2 pics.

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02-27-2013, 10:41 AM
  #284
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Note he hasn't attempted this hit all season, it can't be done if the wings are caught in their own end the whole game.

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02-27-2013, 10:44 AM
  #285
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I don't like a lot of his hits because of their predatory nature. He intentionally times his hits as the winger is looking down to catch a pass, and it's pretty obvious that he hits to hurt. He doesnt have to thrust his shoulder up into a wingers face to be an effective hitter, yet he does anyway and won't back it up either.

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02-27-2013, 10:46 AM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penosity View Post
The team he plays for is the only reason Kronwall hasn't been suspended for his dirty hits.

Just as Malkin got nothing for this end of game instigator.
Just as Hossa got only a 5, not a 5 and a game, for his boarding late in game 5 against Nashville in 2010.
etc.

Favored teams like the Wings, Hawks, and Penguins can get away with more.


If Kronwall were on Columbus it would be a very different story.
That jumping hit on Kesler could've been 5 games. That jumping elbow on Ryan Carter could've been another 5 games.
I also find it interesting that his game has cleaned up after the league cleaned up all the other edge players by decree. Maybe an unofficial hearing with Shanny and da boys.

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02-27-2013, 10:48 AM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Jarnkrok View Post
Eh, even Voracek was defending Kronwall after the hit.
means nothing.

Sedin defended Kieth after his hit and suspension.

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02-27-2013, 10:50 AM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon View Post
So you know for a fact that Mike Brown would not have thrown that big hit if Kronwall had fought after throwing his?

Those who advocating fighting after every big hit seem to do a spectacular job of confusing correlation for causation.
I think its fairly obvious.

Mike Brown is the type of player that takes those orders on that team. He went after a skill player (vintage Kronwall)

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02-27-2013, 10:51 AM
  #289
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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
I also find it interesting that his game has cleaned up after the league cleaned up all the other edge players by decree. Maybe an unofficial hearing with Shanny and da boys.
Maybe aliens abducted him and removed his predatory instinct.

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02-27-2013, 10:55 AM
  #290
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The charging rule really needs to be clarified a bit.

Quote:
Charging shall mean the actions of a player who, as a result of distance traveled, shall violently check an opponent in any manner. A “charge” may be the result of a check into the boards, into the goal frame or in open ice.
Upon first glance this would obviously refer to the so-called "three stride rule", but that no longer applies. In fact, the NHL does not give a definitive answer to the distance traveled question.

Quote:
42.1 Charging - A minor or major penalty shall be imposed on a player who skates or jumps into, or charges an opponent in any manner.
Generally speaking, referees used to allow players to skate hard into checks provided they would glide into the hit rather than continue skating into the hit. Jumping into a hit seems like it should be black and white, though it's hard to tell if a player jumps just before the hit. Used to if the player let up and would glide into the hit it would be easier to tell if there was a jumping motion. Now that players are allowed to skate into their checks it is much harder to tell.

Quote:
The culture of checking has changed so that most players hit “up” on their opponent as opposed to making contact with the center of body mass (midsection/chest or even shoulder). The reason I say check “up” is because just prior to impact a checkers ankles stiffen, legs straighten through the knees, upper torso and hands moves in an upward motion followed by a vault or elevation high to their opponent. (High often means head area.) This occurs in all areas of the ice and not just in the so called “hitting zone.”
Some of the above (including the quote directly above) was taken from a blog written by Kerry Fraser, and some is my own opinion.

http://www.tsn.ca/blogs/kerry_fraser/?id=365674

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02-27-2013, 10:55 AM
  #291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
I think its fairly obvious.

Mike Brown is the type of player that takes those orders on that team. He went after a skill player (vintage Kronwall)
I enjoy making assertions with no evidence to support them, too.

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02-27-2013, 10:56 AM
  #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penosity View Post
The team he plays for is the only reason Kronwall hasn't been suspended for his dirty hits.

Just as Malkin got nothing for this end of game instigator.
Just as Hossa got only a 5, not a 5 and a game, for his boarding late in game 5 against Nashville in 2010.
etc.

Favored teams like the Wings, Hawks, and Penguins can get away with more.


If Kronwall were on Columbus it would be a very different story.
That jumping hit on Kesler could've been 5 games. That jumping elbow on Ryan Carter could've been another 5 games.
Like that time Datsyuk and Lidstrom both got suspended for not showing up to the All-Star game because they were injured...

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Old
02-27-2013, 10:59 AM
  #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReverendAlBundy View Post
I don't like a lot of his hits because of their predatory nature. He intentionally times his hits as the winger is looking down to catch a pass, and it's pretty obvious that he hits to hurt. He doesnt have to thrust his shoulder up into a wingers face to be an effective hitter, yet he does anyway and won't back it up either.
Anybody who goes for an open-ice body check is hitting to hurt.

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02-27-2013, 11:02 AM
  #294
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArGarBarGar View Post
Anybody who goes for an open-ice body check is hitting to hurt.
I believe the poster was saying that, in their opinion, "hitting to hurt" (the difference between "hitting to hurt" and "hitting to injure" being another conversation) is only one criteria for a predatory hitter.

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02-27-2013, 11:11 AM
  #295
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I'm not a fan of Kronwall because, as others have said, his hits are essentially predatory. Times them perfectly for when guys have no choice but to not pay attention (ie when they have to look back for an outlet pass). I think his hits are borderline jumping. He's just very good at waiting til the last second before initiating his jump. But you can see it on most of the backward hits. He comes in with his back hunched, and then straightens up and begins his upward thrust just before initiating contact. So while he never really obviously leaves his feet before point of contact, he's still directing his follow through up into the player's upper body and head area.

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02-27-2013, 11:12 AM
  #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
I believe the poster was saying that, in their opinion, "hitting to hurt" (the difference between "hitting to hurt" and "hitting to injure" being another conversation) is only one criteria for a predatory hitter.
Yes. They are predatory because he waits and makes them on players who are catching passes or pulling pucks off the boards and tries to hurt them, rather than just separate them from the puck or even make a play to keep a puck in the zone. He's more focused on taking players heads off than playing the game.
It makes sense that he's stopped hitting this season, because now he has to actually play defense. His reign of stepping up on vulnerable players has come to an end.

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02-27-2013, 11:41 AM
  #297
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All this "predatory" stuff is hilarious. Every player in the NHL that has an opportunity to catch a guy with his head down takes it... that's why they teach you to skate with your head up since you step on the ice.

Apparently any time you more than bump someone like you see in non-check adult leagues it's dirty because you can knock a guy off the puck simply by stepping in front of him, if you hit with any force you are simply trying to injure him

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02-27-2013, 11:51 AM
  #298
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Kronwall picks his spots. Whether or not you like it, whether or not you think he does it well, that's what he does.

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02-27-2013, 11:56 AM
  #299
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God, I love that man.

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02-27-2013, 12:00 PM
  #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Kronwall picks his spots. Whether or not you like it, whether or not you think he does it well, that's what he does.
Obviously he does. Any smart hitter does. You can't go for the hit every time, that's just dumb...

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