HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Chris Kreider

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-27-2013, 09:28 AM
  #101
SlapshotTheMovie
Registered User
 
SlapshotTheMovie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 275
vCash: 500
The kid needs to play to develop. He isnt ready for the NHL by a long shot. He needs to be in the whale getting minutes in. Sadly we dont have the depth to do that. What i dont understand though is the reason he is still in a blue sweater is depth issues but he is playing less then 6 minutes a game.

SlapshotTheMovie is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 09:33 AM
  #102
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Tortorella is responsible for the team's lack of offense. He's responsible for Gaborik's lack of performance...

But not Kreider's?

Double standards abound.


Last edited by SupersonicMonkey*: 02-27-2013 at 09:54 AM.
SupersonicMonkey* is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 09:37 AM
  #103
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
The problem there is that you are rewarding bad play. If Kreider had looked good, just didn't seem to mesh well with anyone else I would say, go for it. But blowing up the Rangers best line because we feel Kreider needs to play with those players is silly. Hagelin has been the teams best forward playing with Stepan and Nash and lately even without Nash.
Its not "rewarding".

Hagelin was AWFUL to start the season. Constant bad penalties, bad decisions with the puck. Awful.

He wasn't rewarded. He was put with someone who would get him going in the right direction.

But when it comes to Kreider there's the double standard.

He was one of the team's only good performance in Montreal. And he had a sub par game last night. That's called being a rookie.

Put him with the players that will give him confidence.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 09:52 AM
  #104
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
People keep saying he is playing with "no sense of urgency".

He has never been a lazy player and has consistently been recognized as one of the hardest workers at practice and in the gym. Yet now at the NHL he gets complacent and lazy?

The answer to me is clear as day. He is not reacting to the game, he is overthinking every single cut he makes on the ice. Because if he ****s up once he is done for the game. It's hard to play naturally with that kind of weight hanging over you. Which is exactly why he should be sent down instead of continuing to have his head ****ed with.
This is exactly it.

Anyone who has ever played at a level above beer league or been on the ice developing young players, would understand this.

When your coach expects nothing less then perfection otherwise you're benched, you second guess every move you make on the ice. Think about every play you make. "If I finish my check, I'll lose my assignment" "if I carry the puck and turn it over I'll be benched, better to get rid of it".

What some see as "tentative" play, is the player over analyzing his play while he's on the ice. Results in indecision.

Its the COACH'S job to get the most out of his players.

A coach with common sense would see this issue and allot the player an opportunity to play with confident veteran talent and allow him to gain confidence in his game.

A coach who can't figure out how to properly develop certain players, can't get a power play with three of the league's top offensive forwards of the last decade going, can't figure out a game plan that generates some offense...he's not to blame? It's the 21 year old first year pro with less than half a regular season under his belt fault?

SupersonicMonkey* is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 10:29 AM
  #105
Sticky Fingers
Registered User
 
Sticky Fingers's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 1,513
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Or a winger who controls the puck. Like Nash.

He hasn't skated one shift with Nash.

Hagelin gets the benefit of leaching off of Nash and riding his coat tails. Kreider needs a confidence booster. Give him a game with Nash when he comes back into the lineup.

Kreider. Stepan. Nash
Please stop making excuses for CK, it's just embarrassing. "Hagelin gets the benefit of leaching off of Nash and riding his coat". Are you kidding me? Hagelin has been good whatever line he has been ob, while Kreider have been this years Wolski, loads of talent, but unable to unleash it while looking completely lost. Kreider needs to be better, period, it's up to himself, noone else. Why should CK have his spot handed to him on a silver plate?

Sticky Fingers is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 10:42 AM
  #106
Killem Dafoe
Moderator
modus operandi
 
Killem Dafoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Land of Bad Drivers
Country: United States
Posts: 15,271
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky Fingers View Post
Or he could do something good with the minutes given to him, instead of looking completely lost. But I guess Kreider should just be handed minutes, not earn them like the rest of the team.
Lol he played what? 4 and a half minutes last night? What do you want him to do in 4 and a half minutes exactly? Who wouldn't look lost when know that on your first shift you can't make any mistakes or else you're sitting the rest of the game. Now after last night if he's not sent back down, he'll skate out there on his first shift and look "lost" because he'll be over thinking everything he does or is about to do in fear that he screws up and then sits the rest of his game.

Killem Dafoe is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 11:01 AM
  #107
vstk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: White Plains, NY
Country: Finland
Posts: 617
vCash: 500
You are expecting a kid, who is playing in the 3rd/4th line, to play like he is on 1st/2nd line. That is not going to happen, guys. Not until he is in the 1st or 2nd line.

I can't understand why you want Kreider to play in the lower lines, that kind of players are meant to be played in top lines and by playing him in the lower lines, you're wasting the potential. You wouldn't want Boyle or Bickel in 1st, why Kreider in 3rd?

Sent the kid down or give him responsibility and ice time.

vstk is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 11:04 AM
  #108
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,801
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vstk View Post
You are expecting a kid, who is playing in the 3rd/4th line, to play like he is on 1st/2nd line. That is not going to happen, guys. Not until he is in the 1st or 2nd line.

I can't understand why you want Kreider to play in the lower lines, that kind of players are meant to be played in top lines and by playing him in the lower lines, you're wasting the potential. You wouldn't want Boyle or Bickel in 1st, why Kreider in 3rd?

Sent the kid down or give him responsibility and ice time.
I expect him to look like he belongs in the NHL with the limited minutes he has. He hasnt.

So the answer, apparently, is to give him more minutes right now - where he'll likely make even more mistakes? Hows that for ass-backwards logic.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 11:05 AM
  #109
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sticky Fingers View Post
Please stop making excuses for CK, it's just embarrassing. "Hagelin gets the benefit of leaching off of Nash and riding his coat". Are you kidding me? Hagelin has been good whatever line he has been ob, while Kreider have been this years Wolski, loads of talent, but unable to unleash it while looking completely lost. Kreider needs to be better, period, it's up to himself, noone else. Why should CK have his spot handed to him on a silver plate?
Apparently you didn't watch the games in January.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 11:09 AM
  #110
vstk
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: White Plains, NY
Country: Finland
Posts: 617
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I expect him to look like he belongs in the NHL with the limited minutes he has. He hasnt.

So the answer, apparently, is to give him more minutes right now - where he'll likely make even more mistakes? Hows that for ass-backwards logic.
It's hard to play like you belong in the NHL when the coach benches you for every single minor mistake or for an accidental play. You want him to play better? Then yes, give him more minutes. That will boost his confidence and hopefully opens up his game as well.

If you don't agree, send him down then (or even trade him) if he, in your opinion, doesn't belong in the NHL.

He does not belong in the lower lines. Period.

vstk is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 11:09 AM
  #111
Brian Boyle
portnor, pls
 
Brian Boyle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,728
vCash: 659
For all the talk of him being nervous, he simply got out-competed on his fourth shift of the game. First he loses a puck battle in a no-contest to a man 60 pounds lighter than him, then he glides into the slot allowing his man to skate by him.

He's being evaluated using a small sample size, and maybe that's not fair, but Tortorella's primary job is to win games. Kreider's making it easy for him to not put him on the ice.

__________________
Rangers Unlimited
Hockey Graphs
Brian Boyle is online now  
Old
02-27-2013, 11:18 AM
  #112
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,801
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
For all the talk of him being nervous, he simply got out-competed on his fourth shift of the game. First he loses a puck battle in a no-contest to a man 60 pounds lighter than him, then he glides into the slot allowing his man to skate by him.

He's being evaluated using a small sample size, and maybe that's not fair, but Tortorella's primary job is to win games. Kreider's making it easy for him to not put him on the ice.
Agreed. But giving him more minutes and putting him into more difficult situations will fix all of this, apparently.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 11:28 AM
  #113
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by vstk View Post
It's hard to play like you belong in the NHL when the coach benches you for every single minor mistake or for an accidental play. You want him to play better? Then yes, give him more minutes. That will boost his confidence and hopefully opens up his game as well.

If you don't agree, send him down then (or even trade him) if he, in your opinion, doesn't belong in the NHL.

He does not belong in the lower lines. Period.
We have to keep in mind he's a 21 year old first year pro.

He's going to look good some nights and hes going to look bad some nights.

But destroying his confidence by benching him for periods at a time is not going to help.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 11:36 AM
  #114
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,845
vCash: 500
Hagelin is one of the few Rangers that makes everyone around him better....even Nash.

Inferno is online now  
Old
02-27-2013, 11:40 AM
  #115
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 19,845
vCash: 500
I think this Kreider discussion is ridiculous. Torts has always rewarded good play and punished bad play. This isnt a new thing. And its not about making mistakes, its about going out there and forcing the issue, making a play, dont be afraid to fail.

Richards was benched when he became too afraid to make a play. Gaborik, when he's being lazy, gets benched. it happened to Dubinsky, it happened to Stepan, it happened to Hagelin, he calls out kids, he calls out vets.

hes never had 1 bad thing to say about Kreider. Kreider is doing this to himself, because hes a KID. very few kids can come in and do what he did in the playoffs...he was fantastic, but hes fallen a bit back down to earth. there is a learning process. people forget how Callahan got sent down and wasnt playing well. How about MDZ? Rangers have integrated so much youth, and yet Torts is terrible at developing kids? gimme a break.

Inferno is online now  
Old
02-27-2013, 11:53 AM
  #116
Amazing Kreiderman
Night-shift fan!
 
Amazing Kreiderman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Netherlands
Country: Netherlands
Posts: 5,207
vCash: 50
Really? When last did he bench Richards? Redden 2.0 has been playing every other shift without doing a signle thing right. He has not contributed to our offense at all (And don't pull out the assists, because they are all secondary or shots resulting in rebounds. Richards has not created a goal since game 2.

Amazing Kreiderman is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 12:03 PM
  #117
NY Lito
Blueshirt Pride
 
NY Lito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 935
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Apparently you didn't watch the games in January.
While Hagelin wasn't lighting it up offensively, he didn't look anywhere near as bad as Kreider has in his own zone.

I agree though, I think Kreider has been mismanaged a bit. But he needs to show more assertiveness. A few games where Kreider ups his physical play, especially in his own zone, and I won't be surprised to see him get some time with Stepan and/or Nash. That's just how Torts works.

Ideally my top 6 is Kreider-Step-Nash, Hagelin-Richards-Gaborik. Who knows if we'll ever see that though.

NY Lito is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 12:04 PM
  #118
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,801
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazing Kreiderman View Post
Really? When last did he bench Richards? Redden 2.0 has been playing every other shift without doing a signle thing right. He has not contributed to our offense at all (And don't pull out the assists, because they are all secondary or shots resulting in rebounds. Richards has not created a goal since game 2.
Richards was benched for an entire period last week. Not like this is important, considering it is in no way comparable to the Kreider situation. Richards isnt playing well, but besides Stepan, theres no other center on the roster right now that even has a chance on generating consistent offense. Thats going beyond the solid track record Richards has had as an NHL player.

To bring up Richards in a discussion about Kreider is just more deflecting, distractions, and excuses.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 12:08 PM
  #119
SickNice
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 485
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
I think this Kreider discussion is ridiculous. Torts has always rewarded good play and punished bad play. This isnt a new thing. And its not about making mistakes, its about going out there and forcing the issue, making a play, dont be afraid to fail.

Richards was benched when he became too afraid to make a play. Gaborik, when he's being lazy, gets benched. it happened to Dubinsky, it happened to Stepan, it happened to Hagelin, he calls out kids, he calls out vets.

hes never had 1 bad thing to say about Kreider. Kreider is doing this to himself, because hes a KID. very few kids can come in and do what he did in the playoffs...he was fantastic, but hes fallen a bit back down to earth. there is a learning process. people forget how Callahan got sent down and wasnt playing well. How about MDZ? Rangers have integrated so much youth, and yet Torts is terrible at developing kids? gimme a break.
Inferno, strong post. I have nothing to add but felt (especially after reading some of the other posts) you deserved this recognition.

SickNice is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 12:10 PM
  #120
Trxjw
Moderator
Bored.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,432
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazing Kreiderman View Post
Really? When last did he bench Richards? Redden 2.0 has been playing every other shift without doing a signle thing right. He has not contributed to our offense at all (And don't pull out the assists, because they are all secondary or shots resulting in rebounds. Richards has not created a goal since game 2.
Pretty simple explanation: Players with a pedigree get the benefit of the doubt. Richards has been playing like garbage, but he's also a Conn Smythe winner who has scored nearly 800 points in this league. Until Kreider proves that he can string together some decent shifts, he's not going to earn more leeway with Tortorella. That's how he operates.

Now, the fact that we're letting our top prospect sit on the bench for 56 minutes per night is extremely dumb and needs to be dealt with, but I can't say that Kreider has earned the ice time, or has any pedigree to fall back on. "Hey coach, I'm big and fast and I can rifle the puck." isn't a valid reason to get ice-time.

Kreider should be getting 20 minutes a game in Hartford, not trying to work his way into Tortorella's good graces.

Trxjw is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 12:14 PM
  #121
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,801
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Pretty simple explanation: Players with a pedigree get the benefit of the doubt. Richards has been playing like garbage, but he's also a Conn Smythe winner who has scored nearly 800 points in this league. Until Kreider proves that he can string together some decent shifts, he's not going to earn more leeway with Tortorella. That's how he operates.
Well said. I cant wrap my head around why anyone would disagree with this line of thinking.

I mean, I know theres some posters that have this vision of Kreider being a dynamic player and they simply cant deal with that not being the reality right now. But beyond that, Im proud we have a coach that makes the young guys earn it.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 12:20 PM
  #122
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
Vetran, high-priced, leaders should NOT get "the benefit of the doubt".

That's a slippery slope toward the 98-2004 vacation resort Rangers.

But, if that's how you like to run teams, more power to you.

Rookies are expected to be inconsistent. They need to be able to play through it.

Your leaders should be carrying the team. Not the rookies.

There is NO excuse for the garbage play of Richards and Gaborik.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 12:25 PM
  #123
The Mouth
Registered User
 
The Mouth's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 848
vCash: 500
Kreider has 5 shots in a dozen games and that backcheck glidefest last night was all I needed to see to seal the deal for me. He doesnt get what it takes to play on this team or this coach, right now. he doesn't deserve a spot.

The Mouth is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 12:25 PM
  #124
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 15,193
vCash: 500
kiyfhg


Last edited by SupersonicMonkey*: 02-27-2013 at 12:35 PM.
SupersonicMonkey* is offline  
Old
02-27-2013, 12:26 PM
  #125
McRanger
Registered User
 
McRanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,705
vCash: 500
For those who point out that Kreider has never been "lazy" you are right. By all accounts he has a great work ethic and is a real good kid. But anyone who watched him regularly at BC knows he wasn't always a factor on the ice. Like Gaborik he would (some nights) be more or less invisible, even when he scored. Now that is not to say he didn't play a smart, efficient game and helped the team win. But at least for me I always wanted to see more. Or more accurately I thought there was more to see.

Anyway, Kreider is a rookie. He is going to make mistakes. And that's fine. But, IMO, ignoring the head coach, no matter what you think of him, can not be one of them.

Torts wants him to use his size and speed to have an impact on the game. He wants to see him, right or wrong, pumping his legs and flying around. Kreider hasn't done that consistently. For a guy who is probably one of the fastest skaters on the planet he often looks remarkably average, mostly because he glides around a lot and by the time he gets his speed going he has to change directions. And its not as if the game is simply too fast for him. With his speed, scrambling around even in a confused manner would be pretty noticeable.

Now personally I agree with the coaches directions. Kreider has speed and size and I think he should use it on every shift. It's not as if Torts is asking established players to do something completely unrelated to their "game" like having Gaborik fight or Boyle dangle. Kreider is a rookie and the direction matches his skill set.

I guess I just don't buy the "it's in his head" argument. This isn't about a guy nervously shooting the puck into the goalies chest or making a tentative play in the defensive zone because he is afraid to make a mistake. This is about him not playing at the intensity level the coach wants to see. Forget finishing a check, just keep your damn feet moving. And even if that does not END UP being "Kreiders game" he needs to do that NOW.

The bottom line for me? The fact that a smart, hard working, extraordinarily fast and extremely strong young man can't seem to summon 5 minutes of noticeable skating is a little frightening.

McRanger is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:01 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.