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Daly on impact of realignment on expansion, negotiations w/NHLPA

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02-27-2013, 12:22 PM
  #26
MoreOrr
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Originally Posted by Ernie View Post
So how do the divisions stack up, revenue wise?
Better yet, Conference-wise?
Bad,, very bad.

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02-27-2013, 12:23 PM
  #27
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Ok on the alignment, but what does it matter if they call the division "Central", or "Northeast", or "NorFLeast", or "CanadaNewEnglandFlorida"? Yes, Buffalo and Detroit can be part of Canada for this purpose.
No idea. Central is weird for that northeast group though.

Seems like this will be on track to be one of those weird experimental decades for the NHL, like the late 60's to late 70's, and then the 90's, with a decade or so of relative stability in between, like the O6 days, 80's, and 00's.

I'd say get ready for the crazy, starting with this potential alignment and playoff system.

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the converse of that would be, if you created a Southern division, then you would be guaranteed Southern teams making the playof yearly. It could help get a foothold in certain markets.
That depends on the risk/reward level the league is willing to go to. They put all 6 expansion teams in the same division in 1967. Did that help or hurt? Does the current Southeast division gets any respect, or even any attention paid to it at all until the playoffs when it's time to complain about a top 3 playoff seed?

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02-27-2013, 12:31 PM
  #28
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Yeah but if you're gonna change the names, why do it to something geographic in nature if it doesn't make no sense. Dallas and Nashville aren't in the mid-west.

Why not Division A, B, C & D? Simple enough. The argument I've always heard for the geographical names was to aid the newer fan. As proposed the names just conffuse things
Why does it matter?

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02-27-2013, 12:36 PM
  #29
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Sooo......Divisions of 8,8,8 and 6 teams makes MORE sense???
At first, it would be 8,7,8,7 with one of DET/CBJ in the Northeast. If PHX relocates, and there are teams in SEA, QUE and the GTA, then DET/CBJ moves back. Obviously having even conferences is a priority. And no divisional playoff/wildcard nonsense.

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02-27-2013, 12:40 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by RusskiyHockey View Post
At first, it would be 8,7,8,7 with one of DET/CBJ in the Northeast. If PHX relocates, and there are teams in SEA, QUE and the GTA, then DET/CBJ moves back. Obviously having even conferences is a priority. And no divisional playoff/wildcard nonsense.
I guess you didn't read where Daly said they are not going to base it on "if's". If this team moves, if this city gets an expansion teams. They are basing it on what they have NOW.

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02-27-2013, 12:40 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by RusskiyHockey View Post
At first, it would be 8,7,8,7 with one of DET/CBJ in the Northeast. If PHX relocates, and there are teams in SEA, QUE and the GTA, then DET/CBJ moves back. Obviously having even conferences is a priority. And no divisional playoff/wildcard nonsense.
Those are all hypotheticals....Bettman and Daly have already said they won't deal with hypotheticals..

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02-27-2013, 12:41 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by MuckOG View Post
Why does it matter?
Besides it not making geographic sense and having no real rational, it doesn't.

They could name the Pacific the East Divison, the Atlantic the West Division, the Central the Mid-West Division and the Mid-west the Asian Division. Why would it matter?

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02-27-2013, 12:42 PM
  #33
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No idea. Central is weird for that northeast group though.
So. The name of one of their divisions being "weird" is the least of their problems.

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02-27-2013, 12:44 PM
  #34
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Put the Jackets in the Mid-West to balance out the conferences and I'm on board. As it is, this is very unfair to give the far, far stronger Eastern conference teams lower odds to make the playoffs.

Wow, I can't believe how uninteresting the West looks when you jetison Detroit to the East. Maybe they oughta keep them there for that reason alone.

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02-27-2013, 12:46 PM
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Um, maybe it just seems painfully obvious to me, so I'm sure it has been addressed, but if you want even conferences, why not just keep Columbus in the midwest and Western Conference? Problem solved.

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02-27-2013, 12:47 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by SouthJerseyRanger View Post
Wow, I can't believe how uninteresting the West looks when you jetison Detroit to the East. Maybe they oughta keep them there for that reason alone.
That's odd...outside of a few teams, I find the Eastern Conference to be MUCH less interesting than the West....I guess it just depends on from which perspective you are looking at it, huh?


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02-27-2013, 12:48 PM
  #37
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No idea. Central is weird for that northeast group though.
With the Florida teams being in the Division, there is no appropriate name that can be given; unless as someone said in the other thread, they call it the "Flyover Division", or it was something like that.

But as for "Central", (the Florida teams aside for a moment),... If Columbus were in that Division and not Boston, then Central is a fairly apt name for the Division. With Boston in the Division, it's still just as appropriate as a Division named the Pacific with Dallas in it.

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Wow, I can't believe how uninteresting the West looks when you jetison Detroit to the East. Maybe they oughta keep them there for that reason alone.
I really believe that that is a serious issue, and the League may fairly soon come to regret this alignment. Not only just how it looks from a glance, but how it'll likely look on the Revenue accounts sheet, let's say at the end of next Season or the Season after.

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02-27-2013, 12:50 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
Besides it not making geographic sense and having no real rational, it doesn't.

They could name the Pacific the East Divison, the Atlantic the West Division, the Central the Mid-West Division and the Mid-west the Asian Division. Why would it matter?
It doesn't...they could name the conferences: "Jack", "Henry", "Bob" and "George" and I couldn't care less. All I care about is that the Wild will no longer have Vancouver, Calgary and Edmonton as divisional opponents.


Last edited by Hurt: 02-27-2013 at 12:53 PM. Reason: Don't censor evade.
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02-27-2013, 12:52 PM
  #39
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How can they justify everything being about standings in the division when teams in the same division don't play each other an equal amount of times (home, away, or at all) not play the conference an equal amount of times?

I should have been 6 vs the division, 4 vs your own conference, and 8 vs the other conference.
There are western teams that would have voted down realignment unless everyone played in all buildings/season.

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Because none of that is certainty at this point, only speculation by fans and some in the media.
See post #10 (official NHL announcement).

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Originally Posted by PeterSidorkiewicz View Post
Um, maybe it just seems painfully obvious to me, so I'm sure it has been addressed, but if you want even conferences, why not just keep Columbus in the midwest and Western Conference? Problem solved.
Because Columbus is further east than Detroit.

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02-27-2013, 12:54 PM
  #40
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Because Columbus is further east than Detroit.
True true, and I know it was said in tongue and cheek, but Detroit has more pull I assume, and has paid more dues than Columbus, so that's why they would be kept.

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02-27-2013, 12:56 PM
  #41
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Um, maybe it just seems painfully obvious to me, so I'm sure it has been addressed, but if you want even conferences, why not just keep Columbus in the midwest and Western Conference? Problem solved.
I believe the reason Detroit (and possibly Columbus) signed off on the proposal in December 2011 was because while they reamined with Central teams, they only had to go out west for a single road game agsint each team and the first two rounds of the playoffs were to take place within division.

With this new proposal the "mid-west" conference would play the western teams 3 times a year, meaning upto 2 road games plus they could play them within the first round of divisional playoffs. That was probably a deal breaker and thus the move to the eastern time zone.

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02-27-2013, 12:56 PM
  #42
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True true, and I know it was said in tongue and cheek, but Detroit has more pull I assume, and has paid more dues than Columbus, so that's why they would be kept.
If Detroit has so much pull, why'd they go to the west in the first place?

It's not all about what the Red Wings want, there are other teams in the league as well that could potentially have a vested interest in having Detroit in the western conference.

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02-27-2013, 12:56 PM
  #43
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There are western teams that would have voted down realignment unless everyone played in all buildings/season.
I think the reality was this, LS, those far-western teams know that the biggest audiences and the $ are in the east; and especially if they were going to lose games against Detroit and the CTZ teams that then they wanted that loss balanced out by having more games against the Eastern Conference teams.

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02-27-2013, 12:56 PM
  #44
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Quote:
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There are western teams that would have voted down realignment unless everyone played in all buildings/season.


Sad if true.

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02-27-2013, 01:01 PM
  #45
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If Detroit has so much pull, why'd they go to the west in the first place?

It's not all about what the Red Wings want, there are other teams in the league as well that could potentially have a vested interest in having Detroit in the western conference.
Because back then is different than now? From everything I've heard on the radio, the NHL feels like Detroit has "paid their dues" being out in the Western Conference, and want to return the favor by now putting them in the East.

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02-27-2013, 01:03 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by cheswick View Post
I believe the reason Detroit (and possibly Columbus) signed off on the proposal in December 2011 was because while they reamined with Central teams, they only had to go out west for a single road game agsint each team and the first two rounds of the playoffs were to take place within division.

With this new proposal the "mid-west" conference would play the western teams 3 times a year, meaning upto 2 road games plus they could play them within the first round of divisional playoffs. That was probably a deal breaker and thus the move to the eastern time zone.
Makes sense, but it seems like the major issue at hand currently with the new proposal is the uneven teams in the West and East. If you just leave Columbus behind in the West, that problem goes away.

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02-27-2013, 01:04 PM
  #47
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Wow, I can't believe how uninteresting the West looks when you jetison Detroit to the East. Maybe they oughta keep them there for that reason alone.
I doubt there's much interest in the "West" even with Detroit, which isn't west anyway.

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I really believe that that is a serious issue, and the League may fairly soon come to regret this alignment. Not only just how it looks from a glance, but how it'll likely look on the Revenue accounts sheet, let's say at the end of next Season or the Season after.
But if they're doing home and home, then the Rangers, Bruins, Flyers, Leafs, Canadiens, and Penguins are all playing games in western buildings. 2 home games a year against the Wings, and maybe 1 or 2 against those other teams, or 7 home games a year against Bos, Mtl, Tor, NYR, Phi, Pit, and Det aren't a bad trade financially.

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02-27-2013, 01:10 PM
  #48
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Because back then is different than now? From everything I've heard on the radio, the NHL feels like Detroit has "paid their dues" being out in the Western Conference, and want to return the favor by now putting them in the East.
So is everything you've heard on the radio based on hard facts or just pure speculation?

Keep in mind the western teams would probably put up a fight to keep Detroit in the west over Columbus if it came down to it. Bettman made a promise he didn't have final say on (if he even made one at all).

But again, it's all speculation in regards to Quebec City getting a team in the near future.

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02-27-2013, 01:16 PM
  #49
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If Detroit has so much pull, why'd they go to the west in the first place?
They didn't completely go west, they stayed west more than went. The Norris was connected to the Smythe for the conference final. Up until the conference playoff format, Detroit would only play a western team in the 3rd round.

Then, in 1998, Toronto was able to go east. Quebec and Hartford had left the northeast corridor, and Ontario had gotten a 2nd team by then, so Toronto saw their chance, and got it.

Detroit would've been able to only go east to the new SE division, and that's only if Atlanta was put into the new Central division. Which is I'm sure when that promise to Detroit about moving east was made, if such a promise was indeed made.

Detroit would have to wait for their chance. The Thrashers moving to Winnipeg gave them that chance. Since there are other teams in the league with their own interests, that's the reason this realignment has become such a thing. Detroit sees this as their chance to make things better for themselves, and so do a bunch of other teams, because the 1998 realignment was a mess in the "West".

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02-27-2013, 01:18 PM
  #50
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So they won't deal in hypotheticals, but they will sit down and discuss this alignment after 2015-16? Hmm, I wonder why.

So, we have this alignment for 3 years, and then everything is up for grabs once again once they expand to Quebec and Markham.

I guess this is good because there doesn't seem to be any kind of consensus on this. Of course, it doesn't figure to get any easier with two more Eastern Time Zone clubs to deal with. Although, the second Toronto team in the Western Conference seems like a no-brainer to me.

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