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Brian Boyle (The "He just plain sucks" Edition)

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Old
02-27-2013, 08:41 AM
  #501
Riverdale
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So sick of Boyle, and tired of hearing about how great he is defensively. He is an offensive black hole and any line he is put on loses ANY chance of scoring. I miss the 3 games where he was benched.

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02-27-2013, 09:30 AM
  #502
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So sick of Boyle, and tired of hearing about how great he is defensively. He is an offensive black hole and any line he is put on loses ANY chance of scoring. I miss the 3 games where he was benched.
Ahh, the good old days. When Rangers gathered at center ice to raise their sticks to the rafters.

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02-27-2013, 09:34 AM
  #503
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I know everyone is sick of talking about Richards, Gaborik, Kreider, and Torts but honestly, complaining about Boyle is like complaining about the paint job of a car that needs a new transmission.

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02-27-2013, 10:50 AM
  #504
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
I know everyone is sick of talking about Richards, Gaborik, Kreider, and Torts but honestly, complaining about Boyle is like complaining about the paint job of a car that needs a new transmission.
I couldn't have said it better myself. Fantastic post.

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02-27-2013, 10:55 AM
  #505
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
I know everyone is sick of talking about Richards, Gaborik, Kreider, and Torts but honestly, complaining about Boyle is like complaining about the paint job of a car that needs a new transmission.
Well you could also look at it from an IT perspective. When troubleshooting the rangers woes early on the Brian Boyle part was removed from the system. The system started to run smoothly and not crash hard.

There would be no reason to reinsert that problematic part back in to the system unless the replacement part broke as well in order to give you time to get a new part.

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02-27-2013, 10:58 AM
  #506
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I want Boyle dealt. If we can get some type of return for Rupp. We can do the same for him. I mean we basically got the same guy, Darrell Powe that Boyle is. We have too many "defensive" forwards and guys that can PK. We need scoring.

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02-27-2013, 10:59 AM
  #507
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
Ahh, the good old days. When Rangers gathered at center ice to raise their sticks to the rafters.
Ah, the simplifications that suit our needs. Boyle wasn't in the lineup. The Rangers won. Obviously, then, the Rangers won because they didn't have Boyle in.

I guess the fact that Lundqvist had a save percentage of .936 over that stretch compared to .910 the rest of the year is negligible.

[But of course that's a stat, so it's meaningless. Obviously the only method to evaluate players is to watch them play and draw a picture of how they make you feel. That's how he know Jeff Halpern produces more offense than Boyle, despite not producing more offense than Boyle. That's also how we know that Kreider and Miller control the play when the're on the ice, despite those pesky stats that show they don't.]

The human mind is great at finding patterns where none exist. Did you know the Rangers are undefeated on Wednesday this season?

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02-27-2013, 11:01 AM
  #508
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Just came in to put in my vote for, HE SUCKS!!!!

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02-27-2013, 11:06 AM
  #509
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Ah, the simplifications that suit our needs. Boyle wasn't in the lineup. The Rangers won. Obviously, then, the Rangers won because they didn't have Boyle in.

I guess the fact that Lundqvist had a save percentage of .936 over that stretch compared to .910 the rest of the year is negligible.

[But of course that's a stat, so it's meaningless. Obviously the only method to evaluate players is to watch them play and draw a picture of how they make you feel. That's how he know Jeff Halpern produces more offense than Boyle, despite not producing more offense than Boyle. That's also how we know that Kreider and Miller control the play when the're on the ice, despite those pesky stats that show they don't.]

The human mind is great at finding patterns where none exist. Did you know the Rangers are undefeated on Wednesday this season?
well there is the old adage if it ain't broke don't fix it. There was no reason at all to force Boyle back in the lineup. Isn't it possible that his absence led to Hanks save percentage increasing as there were less offensive turn overs and more time spent in the oppositions end ?

He was placed on a line that was playing decent in his absence, he gets back in the line up and that lines effectiveness was greatly reduced. There is no denying that. Not to mention he has been taking penalties at crucial times in the game. He is supposed to be our #1 PKer. He adds no value at all when he is in the box.

Last night was a perfect example. He was trying to be physical, his bad skating gets him out of position and he sticks his knee out.

He certainly seems to be trying harder i'll give him that. maybe his feet are all messed up again like last season

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02-27-2013, 11:19 AM
  #510
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well there is the old adage if it ain't broke don't fix it. There was no reason at all to force Boyle back in the lineup.
Well, if you remember, the game before he came back in was the game Miller lost Torts faith defensively at center and they blew a 3 goal 3rd period lead. Again, I think that's an oversimplification saying because they won, it ain't broke, and there's no need to evaluate.

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Isn't it possible that his absence led to Hanks save percentage increasing as there were less offensive turn overs and more time spent in the oppositions end ?
No that's not possible (but I fully expected a similar response). Zone time won't affect save percentage, as virtually all shots on goal are from the one zone anyways. Even if it was, Boyle's possession stats trump Kreider's and Miller's, anyways.

I know:

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02-27-2013, 12:25 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Ah, the simplifications that suit our needs. Boyle wasn't in the lineup. The Rangers won. Obviously, then, the Rangers won because they didn't have Boyle in.

I guess the fact that Lundqvist had a save percentage of .936 over that stretch compared to .910 the rest of the year is negligible.

[But of course that's a stat, so it's meaningless. Obviously the only method to evaluate players is to watch them play and draw a picture of how they make you feel. That's how he know Jeff Halpern produces more offense than Boyle, despite not producing more offense than Boyle. That's also how we know that Kreider and Miller control the play when the're on the ice, despite those pesky stats that show they don't.]

The human mind is great at finding patterns where none exist. Did you know the Rangers are undefeated on Wednesday this season?
It's undeniable that the team performed better when BB was scratched. Obviously, there are plenty of variables. But the fact that the team was on a streak (against a tougher schedule) and then for no real reason Torts re-inserted the big black hole, one has to ask why mess with a good thing.

btw, stat boy, why do scouts ever bother to go and see players? They should just study their Corsi, right? Your arguments are a joke. The kind that makes nobody laugh. What's that sound? It's your screen refreshing with the latest Corsi. Hurry up and take today's hockey lesson. Since there's no need to actually watch the players play.

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02-27-2013, 12:43 PM
  #512
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
It's undeniable that the team performed better when BB was scratched. Obviously, there are plenty of variables. But the fact that the team was on a streak (against a tougher schedule) and then for no real reason Torts re-inserted the big black hole, one has to ask why mess with a good thing.
Tougher schedule? The Islanders, the Lightning (riding a 3 game losing streak), and the Bruins (should be and was a tough game) were the teams they played. How is that a tougher schedule? It's nice to see it's not just stats you're immune to. It's logic of any kind.

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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
btw, stat boy, why do scouts ever bother to go and see players? They should just study their Corsi, right? Your arguments are a joke. The kind that makes nobody laugh. What's that sound? It's your screen refreshing with the latest Corsi. Hurry up and take today's hockey lesson. Since there's no need to actually watch the players play.
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
btw, stat boy, why do scouts ever bother to go and see players? They should just study their Corsi, right?
Why do you think management studies stats?

I have never said that information can't be gained from watching the games. That's a ridiculous thought and a strawman argument. Something can be gained from both. Unlike you, however, my opinions from watching the game are never in so much conflict with evidence.

I think it would be appropriate for a fan to completely ignore statistical evidence if they fit all the following critiera:

1. Watch all 82 games.
2. Have a strong grasp of what drives winning and losing.
3. Have an ability to interpret what they are seeing without any bias.

I don't know any people that do, however.

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What's that sound? It's your screen refreshing with the latest Corsi.
The process you are describing is silent.

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02-27-2013, 01:40 PM
  #513
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I like boyle a lot. With that said i think he should be given some real minutes and out on the ice with top players so we can try and inflate his value and ship him off. I like him a lot but he is killing us right now.

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02-27-2013, 02:46 PM
  #514
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Brian Boyle only sucks because he's over played. As a regular 4th liner and a guy who plays extra shifts when we're winning late as well as eating up some penalty kill, he would be perfect.

The team pays him what he's worth, and then plays him as if he's worth about 2.5 times as much as he's paid. I can't blame him just for being the "next man up".

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02-27-2013, 03:36 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Tougher schedule? The Islanders, the Lightning (riding a 3 game losing streak), and the Bruins (should be and was a tough game) were the teams they played. How is that a tougher schedule? It's nice to see it's not just stats you're immune to. It's logic of any kind.




Why do you think management studies stats?

I have never said that information can't be gained from watching the games. That's a ridiculous thought and a strawman argument. Something can be gained from both. Unlike you, however, my opinions from watching the game are never in so much conflict with evidence.

I think it would be appropriate for a fan to completely ignore statistical evidence if they fit all the following critiera:

1. Watch all 82 games.
2. Have a strong grasp of what drives winning and losing.
3. Have an ability to interpret what they are seeing without any bias.

I don't know any people that do, however.


The process you are describing is silent.
The lightning and Bruins were at the top of the standings at the time (not the very top but in the playoffs) and the Islanders is always a very tough game. So, that is a tough three game stretch. Since then we have been playing teams on the outside looking in except for the Habs (and Sens) which were not impressive while still managing to beat us twice. The schedule has been lighter since BB has been back.

Look he has played poorly but I would still like to see him on our 4th line in a reduced role. At this point, I think his poor play is partly due to Torts putting expectations on him which are too high and so when he hits the ice he is trying to live up to the player Torts tells him that he is; and he is just not talented enough with his stick or skates to do that. If expectations were managed properly, Brian can play 5 - 7 ES minutes night, be a primary penalty killer and if he's having a good night on draws be used down the stretch when protecting a lead. But to play him on a 3rd line slows down our momentum too much and just isn't the way he should be used. Hopefully, Torts comes around to this thinking.

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02-27-2013, 03:42 PM
  #516
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Originally Posted by Bardof425 View Post
The lightning and Bruins were at the top of the standings at the time (not the very top but in the playoffs) and the Islanders is always a very tough game. So, that is a tough three game stretch.
Tampa Bay had a hot stretch to start the season. That stretch was over by the time that game came around.

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Look he has played poorly but I would still like to see him on our 4th line in a reduced role.
I know. This exact phrase is in one half of all your posts.

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02-27-2013, 04:01 PM
  #517
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Tampa Bay had a hot stretch to start the season. That stretch was over by the time that game came around.


I know. This exact phrase is in one half of all your posts.
But yet it is still not happening. Do you think he is a 3rd liner? Better stated, does his Corsi suggest he is a 3rd liner on this team considering the Corsis of all other forwards?

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02-27-2013, 04:07 PM
  #518
Brian Boyle
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But yet it is still not happening. Do you think he is a 3rd liner? Better stated, does his Corsi suggest he is a 3rd liner on this team considering the Corsis of all other forwards?
Do you really not know my position by now?

He is absolutely not playing like a 3rd liner so far this season. I do think that the past two years he has. Still, I think he's the best option the team has for 3rd line center.

You do not need to remind of of the existence of J.T. Miller or Jeff Halpern. I'm fully aware they still exist.

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02-27-2013, 04:15 PM
  #519
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Do you really not know my position by now?

He is absolutely not playing like a 3rd liner so far this season. I do think that the past two years he has. Still, I think he's the best option the team has for 3rd line center.

You do not need to remind of of the existence of J.T. Miller or Jeff Halpern. I'm fully aware they still exist.
This is a refreshing post hidden in a cesspool of thoughts on this board. I say that because its objective, which is a rarity around here. Some people have their thoughts on Boyle set in stone and it wont change - so its nice to see a legitimate post about how he played well the past 2 years and is playing like **** this season (aka, reality).

Preconceived notions that simply won't change is poisoning the discourse all over this board. Beyond Boyle, the same stuff is going on in the Kreider thread with those who just refuse to accept reality.

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02-27-2013, 04:24 PM
  #520
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This thread is a joke. Boyle isn't great but he doesn't deserve this much attention.

I'm more afraid of the fact Chris Kreider and JT Miller are painfully obviously not NHL ready yet are being forced to play on an NHL team.

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02-27-2013, 04:26 PM
  #521
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This thread is a joke. Boyle isn't great but he doesn't deserve this much attention.

I'm more afraid of the fact Chris Kreider and JT Miller are painfully obviously not NHL ready yet are being forced to play on an NHL team.
Last part spot on. We have no one else in the pipes really and Nash out, McD Maybe etc... so we need all the help we can grab ...

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02-27-2013, 04:27 PM
  #522
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I know everyone is sick of talking about Richards, Gaborik, Kreider, and Torts but honestly, complaining about Boyle is like complaining about the paint job of a car that needs a new transmission.
Bingo

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02-27-2013, 09:29 PM
  #523
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Im not comparing the 2 play wise, but im at the point where if I see a brian boyle traded tweet pop up by a credible hockey guy, ill be as excited as when I saw erik christensen was traded.

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02-27-2013, 09:56 PM
  #524
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Dear Johnny Torts,

Please stop sending Brian Boyle out onto the ice after every Rangers goal.

Sincerely,
Rangers fans

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02-27-2013, 10:20 PM
  #525
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Do you really not know my position by now?

He is absolutely not playing like a 3rd liner so far this season. I do think that the past two years he has. Still, I think he's the best option the team has for 3rd line center.

You do not need to remind of of the existence of J.T. Miller or Jeff Halpern. I'm fully aware they still exist.
I know what you've written. Quite possible recent events, meaning Halpern has played well and Boyle has sucked, might change your mind. But I guess not. No worries.

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