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Winger Acquisition Thread | Part V: Wingers in the Hands of an Angry (Hockey) God

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02-27-2013, 01:26 PM
  #976
plaidchuck
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
I partly agree. At least about Tyler Kennedy. I believe nobody wants a guy making $2 million who doesn't a) score, b) kill penalties, c) win face-offs, d) fight or provide size or e) be used on the PP. If we use him in a trade, we'll have to add SIGNIFICANT pieces to get someone worthwhile.
Watch him become the next Glen Murray

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02-27-2013, 01:27 PM
  #977
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With Iginla, I think it is a case of him going to Feaster and saying he wants out and where he'd like to go. Not sure it is the other way around. If he said he wants to stay, he will no doubt. I do think that in this case, having Sidney is a bonus, unlike Parise who wanted to go home and play with Suter more.

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02-27-2013, 01:27 PM
  #978
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Originally Posted by Hottubber View Post
Glass replacing Asham is an upgrade. Losing Michalek has not hurt one bit. A lot of posters question the return, but Shero did not want to take salary back.

How do you figure about Staal? Shero got a very good return for a player that turned down a 10 year 60 million dollar deal and all but said he wanted to go to Carolina.

Im curious to what your suggestions are of what Shero should have done?
I think Glass is absolutely terrible. Did Staal only want to play for Carolina? If so, the return was decent.

I find it hard to believe that we couldn't get more for Michalek. The excuse was that he was a cap dump to sign Parise. Can't you go over the cap in the offseason? Seems like it was premature to donate Michalek until Parise signed on the dotted line.

I hope i would have seen the writing on the wall that Parise wasn't signing here and made other signings. But again Shero could have signed Semin after missing out on Parise. He failed.

It's just frustrating that we had more than enough cap room to sign Semin but he decided to stand pat and hope Tangradi would work out even though he's awful.

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02-27-2013, 01:31 PM
  #979
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It's just frustrating that we had more than enough cap room to sign Semin but he decided to stand pat and hope Tangradi would work out even though he's awful.
True it's not like Semin is lighting up the league or anything though. And if you say "but if he played with Malkin/Crosby.." well we could say that about anyone.

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02-27-2013, 01:31 PM
  #980
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I truly think Shero wanted nothing to do with Semin; like people don't hope they get a migraine.

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02-27-2013, 01:34 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
As for your second comment, I believe you forgot a few names that we could trade that would net us something interesting: Paul Martin, Brooks Orpik, Matt Niskanen, Deryk Engelland, Chris Kunitz, Brandon Sutter, Matt Cooke and Pascal Dupuis.

I don't see why any of those guys would be untouchable right about now.
RE: bolded, aren't you one of the ones most vocal about wanting toughness in this lineup? Why would you then list our only legitimate fighter as a piece that could draw interest?

Also, the way he's currently playing, I don't think it makes any sense at all to deal Martin this season. IF you want to explore a trade in the summer, when Shero has a better chance to replace him via free agency, trade, or whatever, that's one thing. But you don't trade your #1 defenseman (and that's what he currently is, especially with Letang being a bonehead recently) in the middle of the season.

IMO, the only guys on your list that I wouldn't mind parting with if it was necessary to land that top six winger, would be Cooke, Dupuis, Niskanen, and maybe Orpik. Losing Kunitz means we'd still have a hole in the top six, and losing Martin or Engelland I covered above. Sutter, I simply don't see being moved since he was Shero's "saving face" acquisition in the Staal deal.

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02-27-2013, 01:35 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by Saints11 View Post
I truly think Shero wanted nothing to do with Semin; like people don't hope they get a migraine.
That's right because Ray Shero knows that Semin playing for Bylsma wouldn't work out no matter how many goals he'd score.

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02-27-2013, 01:36 PM
  #983
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People keep saying we should get Iginla because look how beneficial Roberts and Guerin were. But let's not forget we acquired Bill Guerin for a conditional pick (turned out to be a 3rd round pick). We acquired Roberts for Noah Welsh.

Iginla is going to cost soo much more. I agree we need a vet, but not at the price Iginla will command

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02-27-2013, 01:37 PM
  #984
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
The more I see this team play, the more I think the Pens should be all-in with regards to Jarome Iginla. He's exactly what this team needs, both in terms of his ability and his veteran presence.

This team almost plays as though it misses that veteran presence, like Guerin when he came over, like when Gary Roberts was acquired. I think Iginla could be that guy. And unlike Roberts and Guerin, I think Iginla's still got top line ability to boot.

IMO, there's not a more perfect target out there in terms of all of our needs, not just the need to find a scoring top six winger.
I agree but it's just the asking price. People think it would be low, others think it would be high, etc.

I don't think theres any question he'd waive his NTC to come here. 2 or 3 more years chasing a cup with Sid is probably something he'd like to do but it all depends on Feaster.

The one thing RS has is a plethora of young promising D prospects.
Of them, the one i'd hate to lose the most is Harrington personally.
I have to imagine Depres is brought up alot and Morrow in potential deals.

Then theres probably teams wanting help immediately with guys like Nisky, Orpik, Engelland etc. I imagine theres even teams inquring about Martin with the way he is playing.

If RS really wants the phone to ring off the hook he should let it slip Letang may be on the market after his play this year...he could probably land anyone he wants then

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02-27-2013, 01:39 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by plaidchuck View Post
I think moves will be made but I don't think it will be the panacea that everyone wants. And we all know by now he definitely won't pay more for a FA than what he thinks is fair.

Also it's kind of funny other than missing Staal they won the cup with even less offensive depth than they have now. That team was blessed in a lot of ways.
I don't know about that. We had guys like Petr Sykora and Miroslav Satan not even playing. Both skilled veterans who had their ups and downs with us, mostly downs under Bylsma, but still. And I believe Pascal Dupuis was on our fourth line when we won the Cup. And of course, we had the absolute no-questions asked best third line in hockey back then. So no, I believe we had more offensive depth in '09.


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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
The more I see this team play, the more I think the Pens should be all-in with regards to Jarome Iginla. He's exactly what this team needs, both in terms of his ability and his veteran presence.

This team almost plays as though it misses that veteran presence, like Guerin when he came over, like when Gary Roberts was acquired. I think Iginla could be that guy. And unlike Roberts and Guerin, I think Iginla's still got top line ability to boot.

IMO, there's not a more perfect target out there in terms of all of our needs, not just the need to find a scoring top six winger.
I don't know if there are too many people who don't agree. But Calgary wants to keep their captain for life, or else they would have to ask for a king's ransom in return. What do you think the Pens would have wanted if they had to trade Mario Lemieux? Am I exaggerating? No, I'm not. Jarome Iginla is no Mario Lemieux, but Canada is not Pittsburgh. The trading of Jarome Iginla would send shockwaves throughout the country. This is a BIG DEAL. It's bigger than the whole Mats Sundin situation with Toronto a few years ago, because while Mats was in the 'Center of the Universe', he is Swedish. Iggy is the greatest Canadian to play for a Canadian NHL team in a long, long time.


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Glass replacing Asham is an upgrade.
Did you have a straight face when you said that? The ONLY thing Glass does better than Asham is staying healthy, but how is that a good thing for the team? Glass is bloody awful in all areas. At least Asham had a nice little shot that he could use now and then and score some goals. He also could win fights regularly and act as a quasi-enforcer. There were moments when he played so well, he was a borderline third liner for us. Then he'd regress. So I guess Glass has another thing on Asham: he's more consistent...consistently bad...than Asham.

This year, Asham has been hurt a lot and he is way past his prime, so it's not like I wanted him back. But we got a LOT more out of Asham than we're getting from Glass.


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To get Stewart from St. Louis, it will take Despres and Kennedy, for cap reasons.

To Pittsburgh: Chris Stewart and a 4th or 5th.

To St. Louis: Simon Despres and Tyler Kennedy.
Why would the Blues do this now? This summer, MAYBE. But why would they make their team worse now? Stewart's an RFA this summer, so this deal will be available in the off-season. They have no reason to do this now.

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02-27-2013, 01:48 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
I don't know about that. We had guys like Petr Sykora and Miroslav Satan not even playing. Both skilled veterans who had their ups and downs with us, mostly downs under Bylsma, but still. And I believe Pascal Dupuis was on our fourth line when we won the Cup. And of course, we had the absolute no-questions asked best third line in hockey back then. So no, I believe we had more offensive depth in '09.




I don't know if there are too many people who don't agree. But Calgary wants to keep their captain for life, or else they would have to ask for a king's ransom in return. What do you think the Pens would have wanted if they had to trade Mario Lemieux? Am I exaggerating? No, I'm not. Jarome Iginla is no Mario Lemieux, but Canada is not Pittsburgh. The trading of Jarome Iginla would send shockwaves throughout the country. This is a BIG DEAL. It's bigger than the whole Mats Sundin situation with Toronto a few years ago, because while Mats was in the 'Center of the Universe', he is Swedish. Iggy is the greatest Canadian to play for a Canadian NHL team in a long, long time.




Did you have a straight face when you said that? The ONLY thing Glass does better than Asham is staying healthy, but how is that a good thing for the team? Glass is bloody awful in all areas. At least Asham had a nice little shot that he could use now and then and score some goals. He also could win fights regularly and act as a quasi-enforcer. There were moments when he played so well, he was a borderline third liner for us. Then he'd regress. So I guess Glass has another thing on Asham: he's more consistent...consistently bad...than Asham.

This year, Asham has been hurt a lot and he is way past his prime, so it's not like I wanted him back. But we got a LOT more out of Asham than we're getting from Glass.




Why would the Blues do this now? This summer, MAYBE. But why would they make their team worse now? Stewart's an RFA this summer, so this deal will be available in the off-season. They have no reason to do this now.
I'm not saying Glass is a great player by any means. I said I think he is an upgrade on Asham. Glass is faster, better on the forecheck, much better defensively. Neither guy is a make it break player but as far as fourth liners go, Glass is far better. I think he was a decent fourth line signing

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02-27-2013, 01:48 PM
  #987
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Originally Posted by Sidney the Kidney View Post
RE: bolded, aren't you one of the ones most vocal about wanting toughness in this lineup? Why would you then list our only legitimate fighter as a piece that could draw interest?

Also, the way he's currently playing, I don't think it makes any sense at all to deal Martin this season. IF you want to explore a trade in the summer, when Shero has a better chance to replace him via free agency, trade, or whatever, that's one thing. But you don't trade your #1 defenseman (and that's what he currently is, especially with Letang being a bonehead recently) in the middle of the season.

IMO, the only guys on your list that I wouldn't mind parting with if it was necessary to land that top six winger, would be Cooke, Dupuis, Niskanen, and maybe Orpik. Losing Kunitz means we'd still have a hole in the top six, and losing Martin or Engelland I covered above. Sutter, I simply don't see being moved since he was Shero's "saving face" acquisition in the Staal deal.
I reluctantly included Engelland. I would prefer not to deal for the exact reasons you mentioned. But if someone insists, I would have to move him out.

Put another way, I'd rather part with him than a younger defenseman because we still don't know what the younger defenseman will become here.

As for the rest, I'd still deal Kunitz if it meant landing an Iginla, Perry or Kessel. Winger for winger. Then just let Bennett play.

As for Sutter, again if it can get us an impact winger, just use Jeffrey in his stead.

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02-27-2013, 01:52 PM
  #988
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Originally Posted by Hottubber View Post
I'm not saying Glass is a great player by any means. I said I think he is an upgrade on Asham. Glass is faster, better on the forecheck, much better defensively. Neither guy is a make it break player but as far as fourth liners go, Glass is far better. I think he was a decent fourth line signing
You didn't say "I think", you said Glass is an upgrade over Asham. And if you're truly God-awful, you are nobody's upgrade.

Yes he's faster. Yes he's good on the forecheck, so was Asham. Much better defensively, sure. Completely redundant for this team, mind you.

The guy averages over 10 minutes a game and he has zero points. I'll give Glass this much...it's not easy to suck this badly.

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02-27-2013, 02:00 PM
  #989
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
You didn't say "I think", you said Glass is an upgrade over Asham. And if you're truly God-awful, you are nobody's upgrade.

Yes he's faster. Yes he's good on the forecheck, so was Asham. Much better defensively, sure. Completely redundant for this team, mind you.

The guy averages over 10 minutes a game and he has zero points. I'll give Glass this much...it's not easy to suck this badly.
Seeing how your the expert on 4th liners, who would you have signed instead?
Sorry for saying "I think". I should have said IMO he is. I always liked asham but he was too slow to do anything on the forecheck.

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02-27-2013, 02:05 PM
  #990
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People keep saying we should get Iginla because look how beneficial Roberts and Guerin were. But let's not forget we acquired Bill Guerin for a conditional pick (turned out to be a 3rd round pick). We acquired Roberts for Noah Welsh.

Iginla is going to cost soo much more. I agree we need a vet, but not at the price Iginla will command
Uhh, no one is comparing Iginla to Gary Roberts. We should acquire Iginla because he is a hell of a hockey player.

Also, Mr. No Wingers, what the hell do you want us to do? You ***** that Shero doesn't do anything and then you ***** at every proposal made on these boards. Why don't you make some suggestions of wingers you want to acquire?

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02-27-2013, 02:05 PM
  #991
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Like who? I would trade legit assets for an Iginla rental over assets for Setogouchi.
And this is what I see actually happening. We already have (and WILL have) a huge chunk of our cap tied into our long term assets: Sid, Neal, Geno, Letang, and Fleury specifically. I don't see Shero over-committing to another winger unless he turns out to really be worth our while and the long term success of this team (a la Neal for example).

I personally wouldn't mind making a move for Iginla. He may not be the dominant force that he once was, but he's still got plenty of gas left in the tank for a 35 year old. He's an established leader who I think could still easily put up 30+ goals a season for at least another 2-3 years if he's flanking guys like Sid and Geno, or playing on our PP.

What would the Flames be looking for in return? Definitely either a 1st rounder or one of our top prospects (Despres, Morrow, Harrington, Pouliot, or Bennett for example) and possibly a top 4 d-man (Nisky perhaps?).

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02-27-2013, 02:09 PM
  #992
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Seeing how your the expert on 4th liners, who would you have signed instead?
Sorry for saying "I think". I should have said IMO he is. I always liked asham but he was too slow to do anything on the forecheck.
He would have signed George Parros. From what I gather, Jag doesn't like to roll 4th lines anyway so he would rather have enforcers who play 4 minutes a night.

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02-27-2013, 02:13 PM
  #993
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Uhh, no one is comparing Iginla to Gary Roberts. We should acquire Iginla because he is a hell of a hockey player.

Also, Mr. No Wingers, what the hell do you want us to do? You ***** that Shero doesn't do anything and then you ***** at every proposal made on these boards. Why don't you make some suggestions of wingers you want to acquire?
I would have signed Semin to a one year contract and avoided this mess of sitting on my thumb until the deadline strategy.

Maybe look into picking up a vet at the deadline, just not Iginla who is going to cost an arm and a leg.

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02-27-2013, 02:15 PM
  #994
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I would have signed Semin to a one year contract and avoided this mess of sitting on my thumb until the deadline strategy.

Maybe look into picking up a vet at the deadline, just not Iginla who is going to cost an arm and a leg.
And if you couldn't get Semin?

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02-27-2013, 02:17 PM
  #995
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I would have signed Semin to a one year contract and avoided this mess of sitting on my thumb until the deadline strategy.

Maybe look into picking up a vet at the deadline, just not Iginla who is going to cost an arm and a leg.
Well the Semin ship has come and gone. I too would have taken a chance on him but I see why Shero didn't. Who is this worthwhile vet that you want to take a chance on?

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02-27-2013, 02:30 PM
  #996
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Well the Semin ship has come and gone. I too would have taken a chance on him but I see why Shero didn't. Who is this worthwhile vet that you want to take a chance on?
Well since Shero didn't sign Semin, adding a decent vet probably isn't the right move now.

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02-27-2013, 02:30 PM
  #997
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I would have signed Semin to a one year contract and avoided this mess of sitting on my thumb until the deadline strategy.

Maybe look into picking up a vet at the deadline, just not Iginla who is going to cost an arm and a leg.
Its so hard to criticize shero theirs so much stuff that goes on as GM that we dont know about. I doult shero had any intrest in semin but how do u no he didnt go to geno and ask him about semin maybe geno said he didnt want him. Maybe he asked DB if he wanted him and DB said no. Maybe shero asked matt cooke who i believe played for wash with semin what he was like. Maybe he did try to acquire semin but he didnt want to come here. Look at how he handled the Paul Martin situation that we just found out about recently. Theirs so many things that happen that we have no idea about.

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02-27-2013, 02:31 PM
  #998
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Parenteau and Hudler would have been upgrades for us. But I think Shero wants a certain type of player. We'll see if his patience pays off.

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02-27-2013, 02:34 PM
  #999
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