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NHL and NHLPA approve re-alignment

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Old
02-26-2013, 01:41 PM
  #151
BinCookin
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Originally Posted by BinCookin View Post
So lets say this is the setup:

7 team conf
7 team conf
8 team conf
8 team conf

(Lets assume this maximizes travel time - supposedly 'close enough')

How do you deal with the playoff brackets so that things are fair.

I suggest this:

Each conference takes their top 3 teams to create a bracket of 1-6 on each side.

Then EVERY team in the league competes (based on point totals) for 4 "wild cards"
I.E. the next best 4 teams in hockey get to be the 7th and 8th seed for each conference.

EVEN if you are from the "east" you could make the "west" playoffs via the wild card.
You could argue about the playoff travel time affected for the top seeds... but that is the only negative I can think of.
Seems like this is exactly what McKenzie just reported. Oooo I am on the ball baby.

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02-26-2013, 02:32 PM
  #152
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Habs fan from Montreal here. I got a bunch of Wings fan friends from Grand Rapids and this happening would just be amazing !

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Old
02-26-2013, 03:17 PM
  #153
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http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=416887

My question: Why keep the playoff seeding divisional if the NHL would allow both Wild Card teams to come from the same division?

Quote:
It would be divisional playoffs, not conference playoffs, so 1 vs. 4, 2 vs 3 in the first round. The two fourth seeds would be made up of the wild-card teams. The top division winner based on regular-season points in the standings would face off against the lower-ranked wild-card team. The other division winner would play the higher-ranked wild-card.
For Example (lets pretend the teams finished alphabetically in pts within their division):

Central Atlantic
1. Boston - 1. Carolina
2. Buffalo - 2. Columbus
3. Detroit - 3. New Jersey
4. Florida - 4. NY Islanders
5. Montreal - 5. NY Rangers
6. Ottawa - 6. Philadelphia
7. T Bay - 7. Pittsburgh
8. Toronto - 8. Washington

But with the exception that both Florida and Montreal finished with more pts than the Islanders. That would make the matchups:

Boston-Montreal
Buffalo-Detroit

Carolina-Florida
Columbus-New Jersey

See, Florida would have to "jump" over to the other division for the playoffs while every other team stays within their own division.

I'm not sure if this really matters at all in terms of competitive advantage. But, it seems silly that the league would want the teams to match up divisionally for the playoffs but also have the possibility of both wild cards coming from the same division.

Also, why not keep 15 teams in each conference? Is the idea that more teams in the East and less in the West helps to even out travel?

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02-26-2013, 05:23 PM
  #154
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Last season standings as an example:

Atlantic Division
*1. NY Rangers 109p
*2. Pittsburgh 108p
*3. Philadelphia 103p
4. New Jersey 102p (Wild Card 1.)
5. Washington 92p (Wild Card 2.)
----------------
6. Carolina 82p
7. NY Islanders 79p
8. Columbus 65p

Playoffs:
NY Rangers - Washington (Better eastern Division Winner meets the worse Eastern Wild Card)
Pittsburgh - Philadelphia


Central Division
*1. Boston 102p
*2. Detroit 102p
*3. Florida 94p
--------------
4. Ottawa 92p
5. Buffalo 89p
6. Tampa Bay 84p
7. Toronto 80p
8. Montreal 78p

Playoffs:
Boston - New Jersey (Worse Eastern division winner meets the best eastern conference Wild Card)
Detroit - Florida


Mid-West Division
*1. St. Louis 109p
*2. Nashville 102p
*3. Chicago 101p
---------------
4. Dallas 89p
5. Colorado 88p
6. Winnipeg 84p
7. Minnesota 81p

Playoffs:
St. Louis - Los Angeles (Worse Western division winner against the better Wild Card)
Nashville - Chicago


Pacific Division
*1. Vancouver 111p
*2. Phoenix 97p
*3. San Jose 96p
4. Los Angeles 95p (Wild Card 1.)
5. Calgary 90p (Wild Card 2.)
--------------
6. Anaheim 80p
7. Edmonton 74p

Playoffs:
Vancouver - Calgary (Better Western division winner against the worse Wild Card)
Phoenix - San Jose


Last edited by Henkka: 02-26-2013 at 06:18 PM.
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Old
02-26-2013, 09:42 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
I don't think it's money issue. Avs have money but they need it for raised that Landekskog, Duchene, EJ, Varlamov etc are due in a few years.

They don't want to give ROR more than Duchene; which is fair imo. Avs have played hardball with their RFA's long, long time. They don't want to give them leverage. If they give now what ROR wants then what are they going to do when Landeskog's ELC ends?
From what I've read, they gave Stastny too much money on his second deal and vowed not to repeat that mistake.

They don't have to give him what he wants, but you have to think there is a middle ground that these two could have found. Now it's probably too late because the well is poisoned, but if he wanted the Benn deal and they wanted him to have the Subban deal, something like 4/$16m could have split the difference and made everyone happy.

You want to talk about pay scales - they have 4/$16m to David Jones for god's sakes. Clearly they have no concept of pay scales or how to keep them in order. You can't give a crappy player like Jones that much money and then lowball one of your cornerstones. It's just bad business.

Also worth noting - O'Reilly is coming off a contract at $900k a year. Landeskog and Duchene were both top picks and make more in one season on their ELCs than O'Reilly has made in his entire 3 year career. They've already gotten 3 full bargain seasons out of him. I don't blame him a bit.

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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
I do think they're cheapskates, but at the same time this has proven to be a good formula in the cap world. It sets a precedent for the next and next and next contract to also take a cut, so it goes beyond the $ O'Reilly will make. Players more than often do adjust to what the other players on the team make, especially when it comes to re-signings. If a player sees someone he looks up to make $4M, it's natural for him to think "why should I demand more?". Few wants to be seen as greedy in front of their teammates.

STL has a good track record with the RFA bridge deals and shows why it works. Backes, Oshie, Perron, D'agostini, Berglund, Sobotka etc. When you get the ball rolling things get easier. Short contracts also keep young players sharp.
See above. You can't play hardball and nickel and dime all your young players and expect to remain a healthy franchise. I think they could have come up with a bridge contract that would have been satisfactory to both sides, but they absolutely refused to budge off of their cheap short-term offer and their incredibly cheap long-term offer.

That 5/$17m offer had to be a real slap in the face to O'Reilly - they'd get him locked up long term and he'd get less money than Landeskog and Duchene are making on their ELCs. What did they think would happen? Free agents see that treatment and say "ok, that's one org I never want to play for." Even if you want to play hardball with the guy, you have to at least make it LOOK like you were negotiating in good faith. They bungled that negotiation from all sides.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
I hate it because I am about to see another rival go away

-North Stars moved then left division
-Leafs fled East
-Wings now fleeing East

There is nothing left of Norris but the Blues. And sorry but the Wild will never be the North Stars ,, I dont care if they move into division with Hawks I feel absolutely nothing towards that franchise

And Winnipeg : the teams in Alberta/BC care about Winnipeg not anyone here in Chicago

Same with Colorado ,,, Chicago has no rivalries with anyone in Colorado

Stl , Win , Min , Dal , Nas , Col =

Just hate it
I get the emotional reasons for Hawks fans not to like it, but you have to admit there are logical benefits for the Hawks. They'd be in a dominant position in that new division. And less travel in the early playoff rounds.

You'd be getting that North Stars rivalry back too - both Minnesota and Stars. So there's that.

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Old
02-27-2013, 06:02 AM
  #156
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Don't worry. Chicago will have rivals. Success creates them.

When Detroit will be at East, what could be better than a Stanley Cup final between the Hawks and the Wings...?

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02-27-2013, 07:08 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by FlashyG View Post
Not yet because we don't know how the schedule would work under the new format.

Here is the distance (in Miles) between Detroit and the 29 other teams in the league though.

Columbus 201
Toronto 231
Buffalo 257
Chicago 284
Pittsburgh 286
Philadelphia 443
Ottawa 500
Washington 525
Nashville 534
St Louis 550
Montreal 559
New Jersey 605
New York R 616
New York I 617
Carolina 675
Minnesota 680
Boston 707
Winnipeg 1143
Tampa Bay 1179
Dallas 1198
Colorado 1268
Florida 1363
Calgary 1879
Edmonton 1911
Phoenix 2053
Anaheim 2275
Los Angeles 2283
San Jose 2430
Vancouver 2479

Obviously not playing each of the West Coast teams twice a season on the road will cut down on travel by a lot.
seems like they should swap Pitt/Columbus for the Florida teams

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Old
02-27-2013, 07:59 AM
  #158
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Timezones > Geography. Nashville is in CTZ, Detroit and Cbus are in the ETZ. Alot of snowbirds in Florida. And this alignment is great for Detroit.


Last edited by BF3: 02-27-2013 at 08:07 AM.
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02-27-2013, 08:37 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Soft Rock Renegade View Post
seems like they should swap Pitt/Columbus for the Florida teams
That would ruin the PA rivalry - the NHL wants both PA teams in the same conference/division.

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Old
02-27-2013, 08:56 AM
  #160
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There are too many teams in a small eastern area and not enough teams in the vast spread out west. The NHL just needs to get away from the concept of eastern and western conference and do something along the lines of the NFL, each conference has a north south wast and west. It's stupid for Detroit and Columbus to be in the West but the numbers don't work very well otherwise.

The four conference system is better than what we have now though, so I support that as the lesser evil. The fewer games that start at 9 pm or later Detroit time, the better.

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02-27-2013, 10:56 AM
  #161
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You already know I'm against the uneven conferences but if it must be there's 2 things that should change, IMO.

#1. Swap CBJ and CAR with the Florida teams. Or at the absolute worst CBJ with one of them. The Florida teams get screwed there. And CBJ makes a lot more sense in our division then they do.

#2. Scrap divisional playoffs/Wild Card. It's stupid, IMO. The 2 division winners are the 1 and 2 seeds then have the next 6 best teams.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vyacheslav View Post
There are too many teams in a small eastern area and not enough teams in the vast spread out west. The NHL just needs to get away from the concept of eastern and western conference and do something along the lines of the NFL, each conference has a north south wast and west. It's stupid for Detroit and Columbus to be in the West but the numbers don't work very well otherwise.

The four conference system is better than what we have now though, so I support that as the lesser evil. The fewer games that start at 9 pm or later Detroit time, the better.
I thought of this too, but then you run into travel issues in the playoffs. The NFL is 1 game on 1 day so it's not a big deal if say New York has to go to San Fran for a playoff game.

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02-27-2013, 11:38 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by Big Poppa Puck View Post
The Florida teams get screwed there.
I think those Florida teams would love this proposal when visiting fans from those great hockey markets will fill their arena and that leads to better yearly attendance and overall income. They are struggling with their economic situation with current system.

It really doesn't matter how the East is suffled, so they can suffle it economically better.

At West, those time zones and geographics are obviously important. At east, not so, cause everybody is near and at same zone.

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02-27-2013, 11:52 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by WingedWheel1987 View Post
Wings need more Canadian rivalries so they can use that USA chant more often.

Bring on Toronto and Montreal.
I can see it now Tootoo destroys Kessel and the crowd ironically breaks out the USA, USA chant.

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02-27-2013, 12:53 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by Marky9er View Post
I can see it now Tootoo destroys Kessel and the crowd ironically breaks out the USA, USA chant.
Yeah seriously thats one of the dumbest chants wing fans could do. Whose the best wing of all time, Gordie Howe. Who brought the franchise back to life after years of trouble, Yzerman.

What American plays a significant role on the wings? Howard and thats it lol there really isnt any good americans in the teams history that are all that note worthy honestly. If the team actually had Americans it would be different butt hey dont and never really have

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02-27-2013, 02:10 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by newfy View Post
Yeah seriously thats one of the dumbest chants wing fans could do. Whose the best wing of all time, Gordie Howe. Who brought the franchise back to life after years of trouble, Yzerman.

What American plays a significant role on the wings? Howard and thats it lol there really isnt any good americans in the teams history that are all that note worthy honestly. If the team actually had Americans it would be different butt hey dont and never really have
Maybe they chanted for Howard and Abdelkader.

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02-27-2013, 02:19 PM
  #166
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they should just do this
- each division winner makes the playoffs and are ranked 1-4 based on regular season pt totals
- spots 5-16 are based solely on regular season point totals regardless of division or conference
-1 plays 16, 2 vs 15 and so forth
- this would allow for a potential philly-pittsburgh SCF or a Mon-Bost or god forbid a Mon-Tor
-this is how it was in the late 70's and early 80's and allows for some interesting playoff matchups as well as marquee SCF dream matchups

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02-27-2013, 04:01 PM
  #167
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I LOVE the change. I hate all the western teams except the Blues and BlackHawks, I will miss them. I love that were will see Toronto and Montreal and so many original 6 teams.

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02-27-2013, 04:10 PM
  #168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
Don't worry. Chicago will have rivals. Success creates them.

When Detroit will be at East, what could be better than a Stanley Cup final between the Hawks and the Wings...?
Yeah, that will also make the once-or-twice-per-year match-ups that much more exciting to watch.

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02-27-2013, 04:54 PM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfy View Post
Yeah seriously thats one of the dumbest chants wing fans could do. Whose the best wing of all time, Gordie Howe. Who brought the franchise back to life after years of trouble, Yzerman.

What American plays a significant role on the wings? Howard and thats it lol there really isnt any good americans in the teams history that are all that note worthy honestly. If the team actually had Americans it would be different butt hey dont and never really have
Not that it really matters but worth noting that Yzerman, Osgood, Fedorov, and Shanahan were all US Citizens. Fedorov and Yzerman were as early as the first cup if I remember right, I do know at one of the cup celebrations they made jokes about it.

I don't really understand the USA chant, but I don't know why Canadians get so bent out of shape over it. It was hardly as bad as booing the Canadian National Anthem. Something I have seen from the classy fans north of the boarder do to the US National Anthem from time to time.

I do have a feeling having watched the game a lot of Nucks fans were in attendance. Have no idea if this just got away in a certain section where some back and forth was taking place. Once a USA chant starts it is hard to stop, we all like that one stateside, even when it makes little sense.

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02-27-2013, 05:22 PM
  #170
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Originally Posted by The Zetterberg Era View Post
Not that it really matters but worth noting that Yzerman, Osgood, Fedorov, and Shanahan were all US Citizens. Fedorov and Yzerman were as early as the first cup if I remember right, I do know at one of the cup celebrations they made jokes about it.

I don't really understand the USA chant, but I don't know why Canadians get so bent out of shape over it. It was hardly as bad as booing the Canadian National Anthem. Something I have seen from the classy fans north of the boarder do to the US National Anthem from time to time.

I do have a feeling having watched the game a lot of Nucks fans were in attendance. Have no idea if this just got away in a certain section where some back and forth was taking place. Once a USA chant starts it is hard to stop, we all like that one stateside, even when it makes little sense.
The anthem thing goes both ways. I just think nationality like that is really stupid in pro sports period. The wings team has been built on Canadians since its existence pretty much (some Europeans and pretty much 0 Americans) but people are going to chant USA at them? Likewise one of vancouvers top centermen is an American from Michigan, it just doesnt make any sense whatsoever.

Those guys became citizens as formalities to do with making working in the states more convenient. Dont have to worry about Visas and everythin. Yzerman was a Canadian through and through, Fedorov a russian.

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Old
02-27-2013, 07:55 PM
  #171
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I remember vividly when in 1996 the Russian Five was on ice, Winnipeg Jets idiot fans broke into the "USA! USA!" chant, forgetting that there was another Russian in the game: their own goalie, Khabibulin.

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02-27-2013, 08:05 PM
  #172
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I like it a lot. The red wings are a huge winner in the deal. AND the Red Wings will have 3 other Original 6 rivals in their division (Montreal, Toronto, and Boston) and another in the same conference (NY Rangers). 4 of the other original 6 in the schedule regularly, YES PLEASE!

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02-28-2013, 05:25 AM
  #173
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Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
Told it's 50-50 at the moment as to whether or not PA approves realignment proposal. NHL will push hard to get it through as is. #TSN

9 t Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger
Players don't like playoff imbalance. Believe easiest fix is to leave either CBJ or Det in west. PA hasn't completed full player rep review.

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02-28-2013, 05:32 AM
  #174
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Dreger talks about proposal on TSN.

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02-28-2013, 08:40 AM
  #175
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If PA declines, how about this keeping the current format but just making the following changes:

Wings or CBJ --> SE (neither makes sense geographically but it's whatever.)
Jets --> NW
Stars --> Central
Avs --> Pacific


Nearly everyone is happy, save whoever of Wings/CBJ stays in the West.

The Jets go into the NW for natural rivalries with 3 Western Canadian teams and the Wild.

Stars get their wish and get out of Pacific and Avs could easily move to Pacific as being mountain time is only a one hour difference.

So you'd have:

EAST:
Atlantic/NE: Stays the same.
SE: Caps, Panthers, Bolts, Canes, Wings/Jackets

West:
Central: Hawks, Preds, Blues, Wings/Jackets, Stars
NW: Nucks, Wild, Flames, Oil, Jets
Pacific: Sharks, Ducks, Yotes, Kings, Avs

changes in italics

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