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Old
02-25-2013, 01:24 PM
  #51
Jussha
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
No, and not right now. the first line is strangely effective. It might not be who want up there being effective, but they're working - and we need them working. Meanwhile, the third line is doing as well as we can probably hope right now, too.

On the road, maybe we change things to shelter Tatar/Andersson a bit. But with the home games, I don't see any great need to change things. Everyone's getting their minutes, and the team is finally starting to win again.
its fine and dandy that is working out ok like that right now, but lets say the wings do manage to make it into the playoffs, I think it will be very easy to shut them down come playoff time when the whistles go away and the defense tightens up, you basically just hound Datsyuk and that line will be worthless. At least with Tatar and him building some chemistry right now, I think at least in the playoffs that line would be harder to shut down with another option who seems to be able to create his own offense with little amounts of space.

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02-25-2013, 01:45 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
No, and not right now. the first line is strangely effective. It might not be who want up there being effective, but they're working - and we need them working. Meanwhile, the third line is doing as well as we can probably hope right now, too.

On the road, maybe we change things to shelter Tatar/Andersson a bit. But with the home games, I don't see any great need to change things. Everyone's getting their minutes, and the team is finally starting to win again.
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Originally Posted by Jussha View Post
its fine and dandy that is working out ok like that right now, but lets say the wings do manage to make it into the playoffs, I think it will be very easy to shut them down come playoff time when the whistles go away and the defense tightens up, you basically just hound Datsyuk and that line will be worthless. At least with Tatar and him building some chemistry right now, I think at least in the playoffs that line would be harder to shut down with another option who seems to be able to create his own offense with little amounts of space.
This is what I think too. I think we should see if we can get a great 1-2 punch which would be hard to contain. Then when Helm comes back our bottom 6 will improve a lot.

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02-25-2013, 07:30 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussha View Post
its fine and dandy that is working out ok like that right now, but lets say the wings do manage to make it into the playoffs, I think it will be very easy to shut them down come playoff time when the whistles go away and the defense tightens up, you basically just hound Datsyuk and that line will be worthless. At least with Tatar and him building some chemistry right now, I think at least in the playoffs that line would be harder to shut down with another option who seems to be able to create his own offense with little amounts of space.
By the same token, if they're hounding Datsyuk (and Z), that makes it all the more important our third line produces. And if the third line is producing, it'll force teams to work harder to defend them...taking some attention away from the other lines.

With the playoffs, though, I'm not sure it matters what we do if we don't get at least a little healthier.

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02-27-2013, 03:47 AM
  #54
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Tatar is like a mini-Hossa.
Very similar style.
Straight ahead. Fast. High Motor. Good hands. No-nonsense
If he was 6'1 like Hossa he'd be a beast.

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02-27-2013, 07:44 AM
  #55
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I like TARTAR's game and he needs to play more minutes. He looks more effective than FLIP at this point. If FLIP is out longtime I hope we can get the lines like this:
Tartar Z Brunner
Franzen Pasha Nyquist

or Tartar Dats Franzen
Nyquist Z Brunner

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02-27-2013, 08:57 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
Short answer: yes.
Long answer: yessssssss.
That.

I knew Tats was gonna do good things, and between him and Nyquist next year in the top-6 full-time, the forwards will be just fine.

Nyquist-Zetterberg-Brunner
Franzen/Flip-Datsyuk-Tatar

Yeah, that'll do nicely.

Edit -- Doh, beaten to it in the post above mine. Oh well.


Last edited by RedMenace: 02-27-2013 at 09:02 AM. Reason: Always late to the party.
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02-27-2013, 09:09 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
That.

I knew Tats was gonna do good things, and between him and Nyquist next year in the top-6 full-time, the forwards will be just fine.

Nyquist-Zetterberg-Brunner
Franzen/Flip-Datsyuk-Tatar

Yeah, that'll do nicely.

Edit -- Doh, beaten to it in the post above mine. Oh well.
knowing the Wings they'll probably have one of them still in the AHL next year for some inexplicable reason

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Old
02-27-2013, 09:15 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by ricky0034 View Post
knowing the Wings they'll probably have one of them still in the AHL next year for some inexplicable reason
If they do that, I'll eat a shoe.

There is no way that, if they're both still with the Wings organ-I-zation next season, they're not at least on the team full-time. Tatar has put in *4* years in Grand Rapids, and Nyquist is too talented not to be with the Wings; 2 years in the A is enough for him.

Hell, you know what? I'd be okay with seeing this lineup (why does every thread turn into a "dream-lineup-fest?" ):

FORWARDS
Corey Perry ($6.500m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Alexander Semin* ($5.750m)
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Damien Brunner ($2.250m)
Gustav Nyquist ($1.500m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.500m) / Tomas Tatar ($0.840m)
Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m)
Drew Miller ($0.875m)

DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Ian White ($2.875m) / Brendan Smith ($2.250m)
Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) / Jakub Kindl ($1.050m)
Kent Huskins ($0.750m)

GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($3.750m)
Petr Mrazek ($0.773m)

OTHER
???????: Todd Bertuzzi ($0.000m) -- Don't know what to do with him, really, but he's got to go.
Buyout: Carlo Colaiacovo ($0.00m)
Buyout: Mikael Samuelsson ($0.000m)
*Trade: Kyle Quincey ($0.000m)
*Trade: Patrick Eaves ($0.00m)

------

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,803,212; BONUSES: $355,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $863,788

* Yes, I think Semin has acquitted himself nicely this season, and I love being wrong about players of his caliber. I don't know that he'd take that amount over a longer term (5 years?), but surely some GMs will offer him at least that.


Last edited by RedMenace: 02-27-2013 at 11:31 AM. Reason: Edited Bertuzzi -- wtf man?
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Old
02-27-2013, 12:18 PM
  #59
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That third line....that third line is sexy.

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02-27-2013, 12:26 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
If they do that, I'll eat a shoe.

There is no way that, if they're both still with the Wings organ-I-zation next season, they're not at least on the team full-time. Tatar has put in *4* years in Grand Rapids, and Nyquist is too talented not to be with the Wings; 2 years in the A is enough for him.

Hell, you know what? I'd be okay with seeing this lineup (why does every thread turn into a "dream-lineup-fest?" ):

FORWARDS
Corey Perry ($6.500m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Alexander Semin* ($5.750m)
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Damien Brunner ($2.250m)
Gustav Nyquist ($1.500m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.500m) / Tomas Tatar ($0.840m)
Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m)
Drew Miller ($0.875m)

DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
Ian White ($2.875m) / Brendan Smith ($2.250m)
Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) / Jakub Kindl ($1.050m)
Kent Huskins ($0.750m)

GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($3.750m)
Petr Mrazek ($0.773m)

OTHER
???????: Todd Bertuzzi ($0.000m) -- Don't know what to do with him, really, but he's got to go.
Buyout: Carlo Colaiacovo ($0.00m)
Buyout: Mikael Samuelsson ($0.000m)
*Trade: Kyle Quincey ($0.000m)
*Trade: Patrick Eaves ($0.00m)

------

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,803,212; BONUSES: $355,000
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $863,788

* Yes, I think Semin has acquitted himself nicely this season, and I love being wrong about players of his caliber. I don't know that he'd take that amount over a longer term (5 years?), but surely some GMs will offer him at least that.
That really is a dream team. Contender for sure.

But picking up Semin and Perry is unlikely in itself.

But for those cap hits... they would need to be on 12 year deals?

Would you do it if it meant signing them both for life???

EDIT: just remembered, 7 year deal max. So maybe lowering cap hits is not as easy as before

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02-27-2013, 12:37 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by BinCookin View Post
That really is a dream team. Contender for sure.

But picking up Semin and Perry is unlikely in itself.

But for those cap hits... they would need to be on 12 year deals?

Would you do it if it meant signing them both for life???

EDIT: just remembered, 7 year deal max. So maybe lowering cap hits is not as easy as before
The defensive lineup would have to be addressed, even without injuries that lineup wouldn't get us very far.

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02-27-2013, 12:41 PM
  #62
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I think Tatar has over taken Flip for a spot in the top 6. When everyone is healthy I'd roll with:
Franzen-Z-Brunner
Tatar-Datsyuk-Bertuzzi
Flip-Helm-Abdlekader
Miller-Emmerton-Eaves/Cleary

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02-27-2013, 12:53 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
???????: Todd Bertuzzi ($0.000m) -- Don't know what to do with him, really, but he's got to go.
I wonder if we'll see him retire over the summer because of his back. In a Freep article yesterday it mentions Bert had nerve damage in his back that also affected part of his right leg and put him in the hospital for a few days. It also said he's progressing a bit better lately, but still...that doesn't sound good for his long term health.

I know a lot of us aren't thrilled with some of Holland's decisions, but this summer could be another summer of significant turnover. While it might result in more kids playing, big turnover can also result in very uneven play - something that doesn't sit well with folks around here, to say the least.

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02-27-2013, 12:57 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by BinCookin View Post
That really is a dream team. Contender for sure.
Defense is still ew.

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Old
02-27-2013, 01:03 PM
  #65
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Defense is still ew.
Oh yea. But the defense is going to suck until Sproul and Ouellet come to town. Until then the best defense for the Wings is a good offense.

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02-27-2013, 01:03 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by RedMenace View Post
Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m)
Drew Miller ($0.875m)
Just curious, but why is Drew Miller the odd man out here? He's cheaper than Abby and I'm not sure if Abby brings more to the table than Drew Miller.

Miller has 2 goals and 2 assists on the year, playing slightly less minutes than Abby who has only 1 assist. But Abby has been playing a few games with Pavel Freaking Datsyuk and still only has a single assist on the year. Miller is -1, Abby is -5.

They both play on the PP. If Abby isn't centering, what does he have that Miller doesn't also have? It's not as though Miller is a delicate flower who doesn't hit. I just figure if the difference seems to tip in Miller's favor, *and* he's cheaper, go with him, use the money elsewhere.

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02-27-2013, 01:04 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I wonder if we'll see him retire over the summer because of his back. In a Freep article yesterday it mentions Bert had nerve damage in his back that also affected part of his right leg and put him in the hospital for a few days. It also said he's progressing a bit better lately, but still...that doesn't sound good for his long term health.

I know a lot of us aren't thrilled with some of Holland's decisions, but this summer could be another summer of significant turnover. While it might result in more kids playing, big turnover can also result in very uneven play - something that doesn't sit well with folks around here, to say the least.
He won't retire that would screw the Wings. Wings will put him on LTIR like the Flyers have done with Pronger if he can't really play any longer.

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02-27-2013, 01:31 PM
  #68
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He won't retire that would screw the Wings. Wings will put him on LTIR like the Flyers have done with Pronger if he can't really play any longer.
is it really screwing the wings though? his cap hit is only 1.8 million I believe, and if he frees up space for a younger body it may be a blessing in disguise and solve a problem for Holland that he would be reluctant to do otherwise. Though going on LTIR does essentially the same thing, but does NHL investigate things like this now if it seems he is only doing that so the wings dont get screwed over capwise?

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02-27-2013, 02:04 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I wonder if we'll see him retire over the summer because of his back. In a Freep article yesterday it mentions Bert had nerve damage in his back that also affected part of his right leg and put him in the hospital for a few days. It also said he's progressing a bit better lately, but still...that doesn't sound good for his long term health.
Since it's a 35+ deal with one more year, I'd rather they bury him on IR, particularly with the cap going down.

On the other hand, it won't affect the cap, in all likelihood, if we don't spend to the cap. But I've been thinking all along that this back injury was probably the end of Bertuzzi's career. And it's a shame to see that.

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02-27-2013, 02:11 PM
  #70
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The defensive lineup would have to be addressed, even without injuries that lineup wouldn't get us very far.
Yep.
Semin + perry is overkill.
One of those needs to turn into a defenseman

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02-27-2013, 02:46 PM
  #71
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Just curious, but why is Drew Miller the odd man out here? He's cheaper than Abby and I'm not sure if Abby brings more to the table than Drew Miller.
Eh, the bottom line wasn't really my priority other than Helm and Toots, but you're right about Miller being cheaper and more effective; the only question I think the staff might have is whether or not Miller is "tough enough" to grind it out on that line.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I wonder if we'll see him retire over the summer because of his back. In a Freep article yesterday it mentions Bert had nerve damage in his back that also affected part of his right leg and put him in the hospital for a few days. It also said he's progressing a bit better lately, but still...that doesn't sound good for his long term health.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladdy84 View Post
He won't retire that would screw the Wings. Wings will put him on LTIR like the Flyers have done with Pronger if he can't really play any longer.
That was my first "work-around" thought, but if the league could prove cap circumvention, the Wings would be in a world of hurt.

Quote:
I know a lot of us aren't thrilled with some of Holland's decisions, but this summer could be another summer of significant turnover. While it might result in more kids playing, big turnover can also result in very uneven play - something that doesn't sit well with folks around here, to say the least.
Get ready to put on your moderatin' shoes, boys (and girls)...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Claypool View Post
Defense is still ew.
Well, I'm pretty sure the Wings aren't going to part with Kronwall, Ericsson is staying unless he completely faceplants, Lashoff and Smith will likely be somewhere in the bottom pairings, and what other options are there for a PMD after White? Within the system, Billins and Almqvist aren't even close to ready, and value-wise, the UFA market is looking pretty slim. Who knows, maybe Quincey makes me eat my words and turns into an offensive dynamo, but I doubt it -- AND he's more expensive. Maybe they give Anton Babchuk a run; he's young, huge, has a monster (right-handed) shot, and could probably use the structure of Detroit (as well as the leadership of Datsyuk)...

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Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
Since it's a 35+ deal with one more year, I'd rather they bury him on IR, particularly with the cap going down.

On the other hand, it won't affect the cap, in all likelihood, if we don't spend to the cap. But I've been thinking all along that this back injury was probably the end of Bertuzzi's career. And it's a shame to see that.
Yeah, dude's walking around with a cane... not a good sign at all.


Last edited by RedMenace: 02-27-2013 at 03:02 PM.
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02-27-2013, 03:05 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
Since it's a 35+ deal with one more year, I'd rather they bury him on IR, particularly with the cap going down.

On the other hand, it won't affect the cap, in all likelihood, if we don't spend to the cap. But I've been thinking all along that this back injury was probably the end of Bertuzzi's career. And it's a shame to see that.
I'm not sure they could. I get the impression his back will be healthy enough for him to come to camp and "play," but he might just not want to risk messing it up some more.

And, yeah, not thrilled with his career ending that way, either.

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02-27-2013, 03:13 PM
  #73
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its fine and dandy that is working out ok like that right now, but lets say the wings do manage to make it into the playoffs, I think it will be very easy to shut them down come playoff time when the whistles go away and the defense tightens up, you basically just hound Datsyuk and that line will be worthless. At least with Tatar and him building some chemistry right now, I think at least in the playoffs that line would be harder to shut down with another option who seems to be able to create his own offense with little amounts of space.
Yeah. In about 2-3 weeks, people are going to stop trying to defend the Abs-Dats-Cleary line.

it's a stupid line. Makes no sense at all.

Expect to see
Flip-Dats-Sammy if everyone gets healthy

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03-01-2013, 12:29 PM
  #74
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Tatar is the most promising young Red Wings forward I've seen in a long, long time.
Probably since Zetterberg was a rookie
I think if he spent the rest of the season on Datsyuk's line, he'd get calder consideration.

I honestly expect this kid to turn into a 35 goal man one day. Maybe in the next 2-3 seasons.

He's a hard worker. He's effective on the boards. He makes plays. He attacks the net. I'm very impressed with this kid.

I don't think he'll be on the level of Zetterberg or Datsyuk...but I can see him on the level of a Franzen

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03-01-2013, 12:51 PM
  #75
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I don't understand why Babcock trusts putting Brunner with Zetterberg, but doesn't seem to trust putting Tatar with Datsyuk?

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