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Getting Kronwalled

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Old
02-27-2013, 12:06 PM
  #301
Oilfan2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Kronwall picks his spots. Whether or not you like it, whether or not you think he does it well, that's what he does.
I'd have to say ..duh....

He is successful at what he does, I'll give you that. His timing is excellent and he seems to know just when to catch players.

He's been allowed to do that for years even though many of his hits are against the rules.

There should be no doubt in most people's minds that his hits aren't borderline at all..He actually crosses that border with a load of illegal aliens in the trunk..In the large majority of his hits, he leaves his feet, which should make them charging. Sometimes in those charges, he makes contact with the head..So, in effect, he should have been suspended for illigal hits to the head on several occasions.

I will admit the odd time he stays on the ice and catches the player just right, I end up cheering the hit. Unfortunately, those types seem to be rare and the rest are usually illegal.

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02-27-2013, 12:10 PM
  #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilfan2 View Post
I'd have to say ..duh....

He is successful at what he does, I'll give you that. His timing is excellent and he seems to know just when to catch players.

He's been allowed to do that for years even though many of his hits are against the rules.

There should be no doubt in most people's minds that his hits aren't borderline at all..He actually crosses that border with a load of illegal aliens in the trunk..In the large majority of his hits, he leaves his feet, which should make them charging. Sometimes in those charges, he makes contact with the head..So, in effect, he should have been suspended for illigal hits to the head on several occasions.

I will admit the odd time he stays on the ice and catches the player just right, I end up cheering the hit. Unfortunately, those types seem to be rare and the rest are usually illegal.
If these hits were illegal he would've been suspended by now. The NHL knows the rules much better than any of us and they obviously have absolutely no problem with Kronwall. He has maybe a couple borderline hits in his career, and considering how many hits he's thrown, that's not bad at all.

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02-27-2013, 12:24 PM
  #303
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilfan2 View Post
I'd have to say ..duh....

He is successful at what he does, I'll give you that. His timing is excellent and he seems to know just when to catch players.

He's been allowed to do that for years even though many of his hits are against the rules.

There should be no doubt in most people's minds that his hits aren't borderline at all..He actually crosses that border with a load of illegal aliens in the trunk..In the large majority of his hits, he leaves his feet, which should make them charging. Sometimes in those charges, he makes contact with the head..So, in effect, he should have been suspended for illigal hits to the head on several occasions.

I will admit the odd time he stays on the ice and catches the player just right, I end up cheering the hit. Unfortunately, those types seem to be rare and the rest are usually illegal.
I love this comment (along with so many others in this thread)..."there should be no doubt in people's minds"? Well there is. And plenty of evidence that supports there is nothing wrong with the hits. I could just as easily say "it should be 100% clear to 100% of people that there is nothing wrong with the hits"

And why don't people realize that there is nothing illegal with hits to the head??? Can we just designate 1 person on my team to always have the puck, skate bent over, with his head down 12 inches in front of every part of his body, and purposely run into into every player on the other team? We would win by forfeit every game!!! It's not Kronwall's fault you are skating with your head down out in front of every part of your body when he hits you from dead in front of you

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02-27-2013, 12:27 PM
  #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oilfan2 View Post
I'd have to say ..duh....

He is successful at what he does, I'll give you that. His timing is excellent and he seems to know just when to catch players.

He's been allowed to do that for years even though many of his hits are against the rules.

There should be no doubt in most people's minds that his hits aren't borderline at all..He actually crosses that border with a load of illegal aliens in the trunk..In the large majority of his hits, he leaves his feet, which should make them charging. Sometimes in those charges, he makes contact with the head..So, in effect, he should have been suspended for illigal hits to the head on several occasions.

I will admit the odd time he stays on the ice and catches the player just right, I end up cheering the hit. Unfortunately, those types seem to be rare and the rest are usually illegal.
Wow, how classy.

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02-27-2013, 12:32 PM
  #305
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I think one's appreciation of Kronwall's hits depends largely on whether or not he's "Kronwalled" a player on your team.

As a Wings fan, I get a little nervous every time he does this these days. One of these times he's gonna get a guy with his elbow, concuss them, and they're going to throw the book at him. Plus, I don't like to see anyone get seriously injured.

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02-27-2013, 12:34 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by izlez View Post
All this "predatory" stuff is hilarious. Every player in the NHL that has an opportunity to catch a guy with his head down takes it... that's why they teach you to skate with your head up since you step on the ice.

Apparently any time you more than bump someone like you see in non-check adult leagues it's dirty because you can knock a guy off the puck simply by stepping in front of him, if you hit with any force you are simply trying to injure him
The issue is equal treatment across the league. If Kronwall is allowed to head hunt and jump then so should everyone else.

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02-27-2013, 12:40 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
The issue is equal treatment across the league. If Kronwall is allowed to head hunt and jump then so should everyone else.
well...when Kronwall jumps and/or head-hunts, I'm sure he will be suspended

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02-27-2013, 12:43 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by ThirdManIn View Post
Kronwall picks his spots. Whether or not you like it, whether or not you think he does it well, that's what he does.
So hitting guys who are collecting the puck, with their body in a low stance is picking spots well ?

Hitting guys like Marty Havlat, Ales Hemsky and Ryan Kesler is picking your spots well ?

Jumping into them last second and landing in a heap is picking spots well ?

He has just got lucky.

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02-27-2013, 12:44 PM
  #309
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His hits are NOT illegal.

I'll even say that they can be kinda dirty most of the time. But they're not illegal.

He doesn't target the head, as he often hits with his back and can't even see where their head is. He doesn't jump his hits, but he does jump into the hit, so that he doesn't leave his feet but still has upwards momentum.

He rides the line VERY closely, but he's on the clean side of the line.

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02-27-2013, 12:48 PM
  #310
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All this talk about leaving the feet and point of impact is bogus.

When you catch a guy with his head down, you're going to hurt him no matter if you leave your feet. The head injury might be caused by whiplash, or banging it on the ice

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02-27-2013, 12:48 PM
  #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
So hitting guys who are collecting the puck, with their body in a low stance is picking spots well ?
Absolutely!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
Hitting guys like Marty Havlat, Ales Hemsky and Ryan Kesler is picking your spots well ?
Yesss...what does this have to do with anything?

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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
Jumping into them last second and landing in a heap is picking spots well ?

He has just got lucky.
I don't really know what this means...but he doesn't jump into players

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02-27-2013, 12:48 PM
  #312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
So hitting guys who are collecting the puck, with their body in a low stance is picking spots well ?

Hitting guys like Marty Havlat, Ales Hemsky and Ryan Kesler is picking your spots well ?

Jumping into them last second and landing in a heap is picking spots well ?

He has just got lucky.
Yes. Yes. Yes. Maybe.

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02-27-2013, 12:48 PM
  #313
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Only bothered to read the first couple of pages and read all I needed to read.
Why are you even watching hockey if you think Kronwall is out to injure people every time he steps on the ice?

You say you love physical play, yet you spend hours breaking down footage and grainy photographs to try to prove Kronwall is a dirty player? How many times has he been suspended? Zero?

Oh nevermind, because he plays for the Detroit Red Wings, he is immune to all suspensions. Right? What about Quincey and Smith? Both are Detroit Red Wings players and both have been suspended in recent history. This goes back to the whole "Refs are biased towards Detroit!1!!1one!!! claims" so I'm not even sure why I'm trying..

If Kronwall was on YOUR team and players that YOU'RE a fan of weren't getting destroyed because they don't keep their heads up you would love the guy.

Almost every player has come out and said that Kronwalls hit on themselves was clean and should stay in the game. I guess that doesn't mean anything though.

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02-27-2013, 12:49 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by xxgt465xx View Post
Just gonna throw this one in here....

^He's been there, done that.

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02-27-2013, 12:56 PM
  #315
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
So hitting guys who are collecting the puck, with their body in a low stance is picking spots well ?

Hitting guys like Marty Havlat, Ales Hemsky and Ryan Kesler is picking your spots well ?

Jumping into them last second and landing in a heap is picking spots well ?

He has just got lucky.
Besides the jumping part, yes to all. Remind me why you're watching hockey again.. You must've never seen Stevens play.

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02-27-2013, 01:00 PM
  #316
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Originally Posted by LiveeviL View Post
I promise you that if Kronwall or anyone hits someone like a train without any upward momentum at all you will see skates in the air. Try to get out watching hockey, you might learn something about physics and perhaps hockey too.
You promise me?

Seeing skates in the air and upward momentum aren't even the same thing.

Didn't someone just post the Campbell - Umberger hit, where after contact, Campbells skates are barely off the ice, but his body doesn't generally rise up in the air?

Skates leaving the ice after contact doesn't mean you are flying up in the air. Kronwall is flying up in the air everytime. That isn't your magic physics at work, that's Kronwall jumping.

If his skates were skimming the ice, would we be having this discussion? That has nothing to do with jumping or momentum, that would be just the way the legs bend / move as contact is made.

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02-27-2013, 01:01 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by ReverendAlBundy View Post
I don't like a lot of his hits because of their predatory nature. He intentionally times his hits as the winger is looking down to catch a pass, and it's pretty obvious that he hits to hurt. He doesnt have to thrust his shoulder up into a wingers face to be an effective hitter, yet he does anyway and won't back it up either.
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Originally Posted by CanadianHockey View Post
I'm not a fan of Kronwall because, as others have said, his hits are essentially predatory. Times them perfectly for when guys have no choice but to not pay attention (ie when they have to look back for an outlet pass). I think his hits are borderline jumping. He's just very good at waiting til the last second before initiating his jump. But you can see it on most of the backward hits. He comes in with his back hunched, and then straightens up and begins his upward thrust just before initiating contact. So while he never really obviously leaves his feet before point of contact, he's still directing his follow through up into the player's upper body and head area.
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Originally Posted by ReverendAlBundy View Post
Yes. They are predatory because he waits and makes them on players who are catching passes or pulling pucks off the boards and tries to hurt them, rather than just separate them from the puck or even make a play to keep a puck in the zone. He's more focused on taking players heads off than playing the game.
It makes sense that he's stopped hitting this season, because now he has to actually play defense. His reign of stepping up on vulnerable players has come to an end.
This "predatory" whining is embarrassing. What do you want him to do? His hits are a thing of beauty because most are perfect form.

This PC mindset is really annoying.

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02-27-2013, 01:04 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
Thrusting upward now eh....
Thats exactly what he does. He generates force pushes his legs upwards and produces power in his shoulder. When timed perfectly he leaves the ice after contact because of all the force he creates and he has a relatively small size to absorb any of the impact.

There are a few, very small few of his hits where he leaves the ice before contact. Creating force like that isnt against the rules though. If yuo want to have an argument about whether that motion should be illegal thats fine but right now it isnt illegal.

Find me any big hitter, all time or in the league right now that doesnt have a couple big hits that are a bit over the edge. You wont find any and in cases where they do something against the rules they are penalized for it. You cant sit here and say well i Feel like its bad that Kronwall catches vulnerable players with their head down because your feelings arent worth anything in this discussion.

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02-27-2013, 01:06 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by izlez View Post
Absolutely!


Yesss...what does this have to do with anything?


I don't really know what this means...but he doesn't jump into players
Yannick Hansen (no previous history, not even in Jr) and Raffi Torres both got suspended for touching Marrian Hossa.

To use Kronwalls history for no suspensions by the NHL as a barometer for how clean he hits is a joke.

Willie Mitchel got a penalty for the cleanest hard hit we've seen in awhile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWqLc43FX6M

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02-27-2013, 01:06 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Oni View Post
You promise me?

Seeing skates in the air and upward momentum aren't even the same thing.

Didn't someone just post the Campbell - Umberger hit, where after contact, Campbells skates are barely off the ice, but his body doesn't generally rise up in the air?

Skates leaving the ice after contact doesn't mean you are flying up in the air. Kronwall is flying up in the air everytime. That isn't your magic physics at work, that's Kronwall jumping.

If his skates were skimming the ice, would we be having this discussion? That has nothing to do with jumping or momentum, that would be just the way the legs bend / move as contact is made.

Obviously his skates are leaving the ice, but see how much you notice it at normal speed. These refs aren't penalizing him because it happens so fast, they don't even notice he left his feet.

I just think he's a master at that kind of hit, like it or not. Hockey is a game about doing the most to cheat, and still getting away with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
Yannick Hansen (no previous history, not even in Jr) and Raffi Torres both got suspended for touching Marrian Hossa.

To use Kronwalls history for no suspensions by the NHL as a barometer for how clean he hits is a joke.

Willie Mitchel got a penalty for the cleanest hard hit we've seen in awhile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWqLc43FX6M
Kronwall has been lucky in that his hits were he does injure the other player, it was a totally clean, non-jumping hit.

Believe me, if he ever hurts a guy with a jumping hit, he's gonna get a major suspension.

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02-27-2013, 01:06 PM
  #321
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Originally Posted by billybudd View Post
Good video evidence. That 2 on 1 was his fault. The guy who took possession was Kronwall's guy and had nobody within 30 feet of him.




This is the exact opposite of how hitting was practiced for most of hockey's history. The hitter would usually yell "heads up" or "on you" at the guy he was about to hit as a way to say "about to hit you so watch out you don't get killed."

If you've ever seen Gary Roberts play, you'll notice he would slam his stick on the ice a second before finishing a guy for the same reason. Could be wrong, but I think Craig Adams is a current guy who still yells (something).

For a Red Wings example, I'm 99% sure Gordie Howe has mentioned that he used to do this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSGShYjQX2s

Interesting, what sound do you think Gary Roberts made before making a cheap shot on recently concussed Franzen?

The fact people have to resort to frame by frame shots in order to determine whether a check is legal or not speaks volumes. The simple fact is Kronwall has a few seconds to make a decision (based on instinct) and has very rarely been called for one of those hits.

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02-27-2013, 01:10 PM
  #322
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It should become a moot point soon. Nic hasn't Kronwalled anybody this season. His role on the team has changed since Lids retired.

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02-27-2013, 01:11 PM
  #323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
Yannick Hansen (no previous history, not even in Jr) and Raffi Torres both got suspended for touching Marrian Hossa.

To use Kronwalls history for no suspensions by the NHL as a barometer for how clean he hits is a joke.

Willie Mitchel got a penalty for the cleanest hard hit we've seen in awhile.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWqLc43FX6M
And Kronwall got a penalty for a very clean hard hit on Havlat. Using your opinion that his hits are dirty is a much bigger joke than his suspension record.

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02-27-2013, 01:14 PM
  #324
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Originally Posted by newfy View Post
Thats exactly what he does. He generates force pushes his legs upwards and produces power in his shoulder.
Yeah, just like Torres who got his hitting game suspended out of the league.

The Seabrook hit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUDdvzOAoTo

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02-27-2013, 01:15 PM
  #325
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Originally Posted by Ishad View Post
And Kronwall got a penalty for a very clean hard hit on Havlat. Using your opinion that his hits are dirty is a much bigger joke than his suspension record.
He was also got a unwarranted game misconduct.

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